Jayden Bogle - the football thread

[IslandExile]

First up, I think Bogle is fantastic, a credit to himself and the academy. To play so many first team games at his age is a great achievement.

However, many of us and, most importantly Cocu, feel he has something more to learn about the defensive side of his game. I am certain that will come with more experience.

However, in the meantime, and especially with Holmes out injured, I wonder if he should be given a longer spell as a right attacking midfielder.

Next to Holmes, he's arguably the best ball carrier around the first team.

I love the balance of Holmes, Bird and Rooney.

Bogle wasn't great in midfield before but I'm not sure he had Bird and Rooney alongside him when he was asked to play further forward previously.

I do not see Bogle as an out and out winger, Lowe's crosses are better for one thing, but I think he could become a midfield runner. Certainly worth trying in Holmes's absence.

(Downside is I like Wisdom in central defence).

[RadioactiveWaste]

I think I see knight taking the Holmes role in midfield, unless we're going to move Rooney forward and play shinnie.

I think we'll keep bogle at right back. Its becoming clear teams know he's not great defensively and without Keogh and tomori bailing him out its showing up a lot more. I just can't see cocu playing him on the wing though.

Didn't we try wing backs in a couple of games early season? I think bogle would suit that.

[Charlie George]

I thought the interview with Cocu was very revealing. Can't see him been around much longer if he doesn't listen to his coaches.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

I like Bogle but I do think our best defense this season as been when we have wisdom one side and Lowe the other. Wisdom allows Lowe to do what he does best, get forward and Wisdom keeps us solid. I always feel like its 3 at the back with Wisdom there.

Someone asked the other day against Bristol City, "why is Lowe so reluctant to get forward", the answer was because Bogle was playing and Lowe will have been told to play a bit deeper.

[IlsonDerby]

Under Lampard, Bogle came in and was amazing. He then had a period where defensively he looked incredibly shakey and I know I was calling for him to have a time out of the first team but he remained in it and turned his form around. 
 

There’s a cracking player in there, he just needs to remain focussed and committed on making it to the very top. If he avoids distractions and puts in the hours outside of training I think he’d go a long way. 

[G STAR RAM]

Tried him at right midfield at Blackburn away and he looked awful.

If he is ignoring what he is being coached then I would rather see him dropped down to the u23s than tried in a new position.

Been a big disappointment this season.

Hope he can get his career moving back in the right direction.

[Srg]

20 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Tried him at right midfield at Blackburn away and he looked awful.

If he is ignoring what he is being coached then I would rather see him dropped down to the u23s than tried in a new position.

Been a big disappointment this season.

Hope he can get his career moving back in the right direction.

He was a right wing back that game, but you're right he was dreadful - as was every other player though, in one of the worst performances I can remember. It was in that weird spell where Shinnie came in and we finally looked like we had something with the diamond, then he got injured so Cocu tried to play with wing backs for the next month and it was god awful.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Trouble is with Bogle, he thinks he’s already made it when in fact, has he even started? 

Yes he’s a good player but he has so much more to learn. 

It would have been great to get a £10m + bid in for him but he’s got too many weaknesses and his attitude is one of them and this is why nobody has made a serious offer for him  

He needs to forget about his appearance for a minute and think more about putting effort into his job. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

8 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Trouble is with Bogle, he thinks he’s already made it when in fact, has he even started? 

Yes he’s a good player but he has so much more to learn. 

It would have been great to get a £10m + bid in for him but he’s got too many weaknesses and his attitude is one of them and this is why nobody has made a serious offer for him  

He needs to forget about his appearance for a minute and think more about putting effort into his job. 

Really struggling with this.

How do we know his attitude is bad? Does changing his hairstyle mean that he has an attitude problem? Or doing a celebration after scoring an absolute wonder goal? Did David Beckham, widely regarded as one of the most dedicated and hardest-working footballers ever, have an attitude problem that held him back, simply because he was bothered about his appearance?

Cocu may be right in saying that his attitude was off on Saturday, but being a bit pissed off in one game doesn't give him an attitude problem.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

57 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Really struggling with this.

How do we know his attitude is bad? Does changing his hairstyle mean that he has an attitude problem? Or doing a celebration after scoring an absolute wonder goal? Did David Beckham, widely regarded as one of the most dedicated and hardest-working footballers ever, have an attitude problem that held him back, simply because he was bothered about his appearance?

Cocu may be right in saying that his attitude was off on Saturday, but being a bit pissed off in one game doesn't give him an attitude problem.

The whole problem with your post is mentioning Bogle and Beckham in the same post. 

You only have to be connected to the academy to know where Bogles problems lie. 

Are you connected? I’m guessing the answer is no, so you aren’t able to comment. 

The academy takes a firm stance with a lot of things and Bogle breaks a lot of these. 

Or was you commenting just to try and get more likes?? 

[Bubbles]

8 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

The whole problem with your post is mentioning Bogle and Beckham in the same post. 

You only have to be connected to the academy to know where Bogles problems lie. 

Are you connected? I’m guessing the answer is no, so you aren’t able to comment. 

The academy takes a firm stance with a lot of things and Bogle breaks a lot of these. 

Or was you commenting just to try and get more likes?? 

Are you connected? I’m guessing the answer is no, so you aren’t able to comment. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

12 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

The whole problem with your post is mentioning Bogle and Beckham in the same post. 

You only have to be connected to the academy to know where Bogles problems lie. 

Are you connected? I’m guessing the answer is no, so you aren’t able to comment. 

The academy takes a firm stance with a lot of things and Bogle breaks a lot of these. 

Or was you commenting just to try and get more likes?? 

What a ridiculous post, particularly the bolded part.

I had no idea that you're 'connected' to the academy. Are you expecting me to have a dossier on every single member of the forum and whether they're ITK or not? Calm down.

If you are ITK in regard to the academy, then I'd welcome and consider your opinion as to why Bogle has attitude problems. If they sound reasonable and not hearsay, then my opinion might well change. But don't start having a go simply because I didn't know every detail of your personal life.

FWIW, I have some extremely loose connections to the academy and haven't heard anything about Bogle. Clearly, someone with more insight is likely to know more. Go ahead.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

7 minutes ago, Squid said:

Are you connected? I’m guessing the answer is no, so you aren’t able to comment. 

Yes I am and have been for 4+ years. 

You only have to listen to Cocu’s interview to know that patience is wearing very thin. 

[IlsonDerby]

2 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Yes I am and have been for 4+ years. 

You only have to listen to Cocu’s interview to know that patience is wearing very thin. 

Well come on then, put up or shut up... 

 

You either know something that’s useful to this debate or you don’t? Nowt worse than someone insinuating they know something without backing it up. 

[Bubbles]

6 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Yes I am and have been for 4+ years. 

You only have to listen to Cocu’s interview to know that patience is wearing very thin. 

Ok, cool, that doesn’t give you the right to come on here, spout poo, shut down people who disagree with your opinion in the way you do.

if you’re really so ITK, spill the baked beans.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

4 minutes ago, Squid said:

Ok, cool, that doesn’t give you the right to come on here, spout poo, shut down people who disagree with your opinion in the way you do.

if you’re really so ITK, spill the baked beans.

I've already metioned it in my first post in this thread. It seems like you read every post on here so I'm surprised you've missed it. 

[Bubbles]

10 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

I've already metioned it in my first post in this thread. It seems like you read every post on here so I'm surprised you've missed it. 

Who pissed in your cuppa this morning?☺️

[Ambitious]

Has Bogle actually been that bad this season, I mean really? He's still one of our better performers. He's a teenager. I've seen people say he hasn't improved on last season, but I personally don't think that could be any further from the truth. 

Last season, at the start of the season, both Tomori and Bogle were being bailed out by Keogh who was playing his best football. They both improved towards the end of the season, Tomori more so, but Bogle was a marked improvement in the last three months of the season. This season, he doesn't have defenders anywhere near the standard of Tomori and Keogh to support him. He's been on the pitch for 31 of our 45 goals conceded. He's played in 25 games. It certainly not an awful record. I'm not going to say he should be the player of the season, but I personally don't see why we're chomping at the bit to kick a young lad in our team who arguably has the largest potential in the squad - he's certainly in the conversation.

I would say over the course of the season his performance levels are higher, perhaps not on the last 2/3 months of last season, but you can't expect a 19 year old to have the concentration and consistency of a seasoned pro - he's still effectively learning on the job.

[Srg]

1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

Has Bogle actually been that bad this season, I mean really? He's still one of our better performers. He's a teenager. I've seen people say he hasn't improved on last season, but I personally don't think that could be any further from the truth. 

Last season, at the start of the season, both Tomori and Bogle were being bailed out by Keogh who was playing his best football. They both improved towards the end of the season, Tomori more so, but Bogle was a marked improvement in the last three months of the season. This season, he doesn't have defenders anywhere near the standard of Tomori and Keogh to support him. He's been on the pitch for 31 of our 45 goals conceded. He's played in 25 games. It certainly not an awful record. I'm not going to say he should be the player of the season, but I personally don't see why we're chomping at the bit to kick a young lad in our team who arguably has the largest potential in the squad - he's certainly in the conversation.

I would say over the course of the season his performance levels are higher, perhaps not on the last 2/3 months of last season, but you can't expect a 19 year old to have the concentration and consistency of a seasoned pro - he's still effectively learning on the job.

Nope, he's a kid who's being held to higher standards than other senior players, let alone other kids. And this is in amongst a back drop of a pretty woeful, up and down season as far as results, performances and the club goes.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

23 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Has Bogle actually been that bad this season, I mean really? He's still one of our better performers. He's a teenager. I've seen people say he hasn't improved on last season, but I personally don't think that could be any further from the truth. 

Bang on. People are saying he's nowhere near as good as he was last season, when at this point last season people were calling for him to be dropped.

He's certainly not as good as he was at the back end of last season, but that's a different matter.