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v Bristol City (A) - Matchday Thread

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More positives than negatives out of that for me. A loss with some character shown like that isn’t a disaster away from home. Main feeling is annoyance I suppose, that we put ourselves in a tough position to start with, and that the ref was so awful it potentially cost us a point. Very disappointing given the way we played to chuck the game away through basic defensive errors given the way we played as a whole. But that’s the thing, we have to look at it from the perspective of the performance we put in on the ball which was excellent. So so much better in possession, we were quicker, more incisive, and with much better movement than we’ve seen at times. We looked to have a defined style, and the way we were passing it around at speed if we just had a little more quality in the final third then we’d be a real danger. Bird in particular was absolutely outstanding. He’s got that special attribute that only the best players have - he sees what’s around him and makes his mind up on his next move before he even gets the ball. Brilliant talent. 

Its extremely frustrating to lose another game because we haven’t learnt how to defend a cross yet, but that was a damn sight better than some of the poo we put up with in the first half of the season. So much more character in the team now. We look like a team that has Real potential for me. Some excellent quality in the middle of the park - Bird, Holmes and Rooney has the potential to be the best middle three in the division. We’re just severely lacking in certain areas which is holding us back - Any sort of quality from the wing, and some defensive discipline and organisation. Fix those problems and we’ll be flying. It’s a shame we didn’t have any money in January, if we did I think we could definitely have had a shout this second half of the season.

A winger, a centre back and a goalie and we’ll be flying.

Edited by Millenniumram

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15 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

More positives than negatives out of that for me. A loss with some character shown like that isn’t a disaster away from home. Main feeling is annoyance I suppose, that we put ourselves in a tough position to start with, and that the ref was so awful it potentially cost us a point. Very disappointing given the way we played to chuck the game away through basic defensive errors given the way we played as a whole. But that’s the thing, we have to look at it from the perspective of the performance we put in on the ball which was excellent. So so much better in possession, we were quicker, more incisive, and with much better movement than we’ve seen at times. We looked to have a defined style, and the way we were passing it around at speed if we just had a little more quality in the final third then we’d be a real danger. Bird in particular was absolutely outstanding. He’s got that special attribute that only the best players have - he sees what’s around him and makes his mind up on his next move before he even gets the ball. Brilliant talent. 

Its extremely frustrating to lose another game because we haven’t learnt how to defend a cross yet, but that was a damn sight better than some of the poo we put up with in the first half of the season. So much more character in the team now. We look like a team that has Real potential for me. Some excellent quality in the middle of the park - Bird, Holmes and Rooney has the potential to be the best middle three in the division. We’re just severely lacking in certain areas which is holding us back - Any sort of quality from the wing, and some defensive discipline and organisation. Fix those problems and we’ll be flying. It’s a shame we didn’t have any money in January, if we did I think we could definitely have had a shout this second half of the season.

A winger, a centre back and a goalie and we’ll be flying.

I agree about the ref, he didn't want to make a decision at all. Just came and took his match fee 

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48 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

You can point to the home and away record which is baffling in itself, but when you break it down - it's outrageous: 

Goals scored at home - 23 in 16 games - joint 10th in the league with Hull. 
Goals scored away - 17 in 16 games - joint 16th in the league with Reading & Stoke. 

Goals conceded at home - 11 in 16 games - best in the league. 
Goals conceded away - 33 in 16 games - second worst in the league, only to Luton. 

The goals scored, you can sort of account for and it's not an outrageous difference, but how does the same team concede THREE times the goals in the same amount of games based on the location they play? I think you could look at every league in world football and not find another club that's even remotely close. 

I thought tonight we played much better than I've seen for the most part of the season, but away from home we just concede really soft goals that we have almost eradicated completely when at home. 

The defence has no backbone. They seem to collapse under any sort of pressure, which is obviously intensified away from home. You only have to look at our recent away games to see it - whenever we concede, we seem to concede again and again within quick succession. As soon as something goes wrong they cave in. In my opinion it’s likely because it’s too young as a unit, there’s no leader with any real experience in there to organise them and keep their heads up. 

The whole joiners affair resulting in Keogh getting injured really has destroyed any hope we had this season, followed by the failure to replace him in January. He’s exactly what we’re missing. Him and Tomori back as centre backs today and we genuinely win the game 4/5-0 for me.

Edited by Millenniumram

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I think our away form just shows what a difference Keogh made.

We are conceding on average over 2 goals a game and I read earlier we haven’t kept a clean sheet away from home in the league

A back four of Bogle, Wisdom, Clarke, Lowe looks lovely on paper, but in action often it doesn’t translate. It is the kind of back four that you can get away with if you are always on the front foot, controlling games and not giving your defence much to do. So at home, it would work out well much of the time.

But away from home, you need more solidity and more experience to stem the flow of chances, organise players and keep shape, and to balance the team out.

If we persist with Bogle and Lowe, we will have to accept that some games they will be very good and some games they will be targeted. Bogle is 19 and Lowe is 22. Both are still finding their feet and building on their potential. Mistakes are going to be made as they flesh out their skills. So it’s either stick and be patient or you pick one to move forward with and replace the other with someone more rounded to balance the team out.

That said, would Bogle and Lowe be such a problem if we had two more experienced centre backs? Clarke is showing promise but at this level he is just as inexperienced as Bogle and Lowe, and there’s a question mark over whether he’d stay if offered the chance. Wisdom is still to make the position his own. It’s too soon to say if he is the answer or not.

If we are to assume Te Wierik is first choice next season, great. But the next step then is to genuinely replace Keogh with a player of a similar profile, because you are putting a lot of responsibility on Te Wierik if not.

But yes, to echo the sentiments of a few others, 3-4 players and we should be right in the mix for promotion next year.

Edited by Jourdan

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I am away at the moment and I was only able to start viewing at exactly the time their 3rd goal went in. At that point they also showed the previous two goals which again came from crosses. All a bit disappointing but then......

I watch a game where we pretty much tore them apart with some excellent football. We got back to 3-2 and should have had a peno for a hand ball. Some of the football we played was the best I have seen for a long time. Pressing forward we allowed a couple of chances to them at the end but based on what I saw Philip and staff are onto something. 

Probably too late for this season but if we can stop the crosses or become better at defending them in the box or preferably both then we are onto something. We are not far off being a very good side. 

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Out of the kids we have are there any more we could take a look at to see if they could play a bigger role and solve some of our remaining issues longer term?

Perhaps a goalie as we don't hear much about our young cbs and our promising winger is out at the other brizzle isn't he?

We've also only got another season of Rooney so need to start planning soon for life after him.

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1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Out of the kids we have are there any more we could take a look at to see if they could play a bigger role and solve some of our remaining issues longer term?

Perhaps a goalie as we don't hear much about our young cbs and our promising winger is out at the other brizzle isn't he?

We've also only got another season of Rooney so need to start planning soon for life after him.

Not sure he's that integral to be honest. Last night wasn't his night for example, it was Max Bird's. I'd be more concerned about losing Bird in the summer or next January the way he's going on.

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6 hours ago, Jourdan said:

A back four of Bogle, Wisdom, Clarke, Lowe looks lovely on paper, but in action often it doesn’t translate. 

That said, would Bogle and Lowe be such a problem if we had two more experienced centre backs? Clarke is showing promise but at this level he is just as inexperienced as Bogle and Lowe, and there’s a question mark over whether he’d stay if offered the chance. Wisdom is still to make the position his own. It’s too soon to say if he is the answer or not.

If we are to assume Te Wierik is first choice next season, great. But the next step then is to genuinely replace Keogh with a player of a similar profile, because you are putting a lot of responsibility on Te Wierik if not.

The defence was pretty shocking v bristol. Under no great pressure they collapsed.

wisdom had looked a rock in the last few games, but last night he was easily beaten at set pieces and his passing was not as good as usual. Lowe has so much potential, but could easily fade away to nothing. He needs fire in his belly or someone constantly in his ear. He needs to offer more at both ends of the pitch. He was knocked over like a skittle for benkovic's goal. And a decent keeper is the foundation of any successful side. 

8 goals conceded in three away games? 

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We never give ourselves a chance of winning away games if we need to score 3 goals every game as an average and in some occasions this just to get a draw. 

Casting my mind back to the interview with Cocu at the end of the January transfer window when he was asked if he was disappointed with the dealings he said there was no point in getting players in for the sake of it if they weren't going to improve the squad. Well am sorry but having the second worst number of goals shipped in away games in the league for me is a pretty easy fix and don't accept that there were no players available who could have improved this unacceptable situation.

Given this acceptance also I see no realisation that Cocu is developing or coaching defensively the players who have been left at his disposal either so looks like a lose - lose situation 

Edited by Tyler Durden

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3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

We never give ourselves a chance of winning away games if we need to score 3 goals every game as an average and in some occasions this just to get a draw. 

Casting my mind back to the interview with Cocu at the end of the January transfer window when he was asked if he was disappointed with the dealings he said there was no point in getting players in for the sake of it if they weren't going to improve the squad. Well am sorry but having the second worst number of goals shipped in away games in the league for me is a pretty easy fix and don't accept that there were no players available who could have improved this unacceptable situation.

Given this acceptance also I see no realisation that Cocu is developing or coaching defensively the players who have been left at his disposal either so looks like a lose - lose situation 

He doesn't single out players for criticism but in his interview after said the defending  was not acceptable....You can only coach players so much then they have to show it on the pitch.

The defensive frailties are more to do with players making errors than lack of coaching 

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8 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

One area that hasn't had any scrutiny so far is how when we go for a header in midfield, instead of directing the ball to a team-mate, or gaining control of the ball, we simply head it "somewhere", especially when the guy heading the ball is in open space and has time to do something constructive. Instead the ball inevitably goes to the opposition.At this level it shouldn't be a case of simply getting a head on the ball, it should be seen as an opportunity to do something useful and turn possession to our advantage.

Spot on, i've mentioned before, it's intelligence, and anticipating where the ball will drop instead of ball watching. It's like we are often half a second behind, and instead of thinking where will it go, we're only just realising who it's currently with.

Then when we do win the header, as you say, instead of directing it to our player, we just hit and hope and inevitably we misjudge where it lands because we're on our heels and off go the opposition again. That or we do a little head flick that almost leads to an assist for the other team.

Edited by goldstar

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6 minutes ago, S8TY said:

He doesn't single out players for criticism but in his interview after said the defending  was not acceptable....You can only coach players so much then they have to show it on the pitch.

The defensive frailties are more to do with players making errors than lack of coaching 

One of my largest complaints about Nigel Clough was his lack of professionalism in post match interviews when he used to publically castigate certain players and criticise individually for mistakes in the preceding game so am with you 100% with how Cocu manages this in-house .

A truism which has always served me well is you do what you always do and you get what you always get. Cocu needs to do something differently within his sphere of influence to generate different outcomes to address our defensive frailties.

Edited by Tyler Durden

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A great 3 Championship points.

At one stage I thought we'd have an easy win, and then lady luck hoisted her skirt and farted in me face.

 

Quote

As for Derby, lovely to watch their football but they were pretty toothless for a fair share of the game. Thankfully, they went for it too late. 

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Derby may still be a factor in April so a win win. Fair play everyone on and off the pitch.. Could be better but that's disrespectful of a decent Derby. 

From the bristol forum.

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Defence is really poor and has people have said collapse so easy. Perhaps go 3 at the back and use Bogle and Lowe to there strengths flying down the wings at will.

Lawrence was poor last night but there is a player in there and I would move him behind Martin perhaps or leave him out.

 

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1 hour ago, RamNut said:

The defence was pretty shocking v bristol. Under no great pressure they collapsed.

wisdom had looked a rock in the last few games, but last night he was easily beaten at set pieces and his passing was not as good as usual. Lowe has so much potential, but could easily fade away to nothing. He needs fire in his belly or someone constantly in his ear. He needs to offer more at both ends of the pitch. He was knocked over like a skittle for benkovic's goal. And a decent keeper is the foundation of any successful side. 

8 goals conceded in three away games? 

But 7 goals scored... so that's an improvement, right? I jest, but I guess we need to realise that squad we have ain't good enough to do both, particularly away.

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I like the amount of goals in our game now. If you're just as likely to score 5 as concede 5 then at 1) it's fun and 2) you still have belief even when a couple of goals down

Much rather that than tight games where if the opponents scores 2 you have no chance of winning. 

I know open teams are also likely to throw away leads but I prefer the entertainment. 

"Clean sheets get you at least a point" they say. Yeah and with that attitude you'll get points one at a time and bore every fan in the stadium while finishing near the bottom of the league. 

Edited by Alpha

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53 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

One of my largest complaints about Nigel Clough was his lack of professionalism in post match interviews when he used to publically castigate certain players and criticise individually for mistakes in the preceding game so am with you 100% with how Cocu manages this in-house .

A truism which has always served me well is you do what you always do and you get what you always get. Cocu needs to do something differently within his sphere of influence to generate different outcomes to address our defensive frailties.

Number 1 priority is  a goalkeeper who can defend the 6 yard  box , both keepers are poor. 

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