What's Changed?

[Alph]

1 hour ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

Social media has changed society. Angry people have become used to venting their spleen I'm afraid. Its still the vocal minority but the minority have found a collective voice.  (Imo)

Completely agree. 

Social media has giving people real delusions of where they stand. 

Nobody is happy being average Joe who nobody gives a toss about. Everybody thinks they have an audience. 

Having a good night out? No? But you're going to make it look like you are on facebook. Not happy with that waiter service but too scared to say owt? Well your twitter account is going to throw a diva strop. 

But through it I think people feel empowered. I think people have long since started to become their online projection of themselves. They think their opinion matters. 

We live in a world now where everyone matters. Everyone has their own little stage. And if I fart on twitter then it gets 200 likes or whatever. 

Thankfully there are people out there still that are happy being nobody. Doing the normal day to day stuff like being civilised and not keeping up appearances. That are comfortable that nobody cares what they think about climate change. That don't really care whether celeb A dates celeb B or if the latest comment from a movie star might offend somebody somewhere. A lot of people are content with their own little unimportant lives they share with their family and friends.

But some people have got so used to being an internet Bamford that they are now a full time Bamford. Too many people actually. Need telling to shut up because nobody gives a toss what they think. And that goes for many celebrities too who also think that the world is watching them like a performing monkey. 

One more thing while I'm moaning. When people say that they say what they think and they aren't bothered what anyone thinks. That bothers me. I am bothered what people think of me. Not everyone. Not knobhead69 on twitter. But I want to be a decent bloke. And that is validated by those you meet. So it's not in the same way that I need 100,000 friends on facebook. But I do care.

Ironically I often find that people who say they don't care what people think try to be outspoken and rude because they care even more so how they appear. 

[Millenniumram]

Couple of factors for me:

First of all, theres the increase in player power in the modern game. In the past, managers tended to last far longer and held all the power, whereas nowadays with the recent increase in sacking culture, players tend to hold the cards more than ever before In terms of being able to influence managerial changes. This leads to half hearted performances when the players aren’t willing to work for the manager, which I think is something we saw far less of 20 years ago or so. This is not something that is unique to Derby of course, far from it, but we’ve certainly seen a fair few matches where I don’t think anyone could suggest the team is putting 100% in. Think the fact that we’ve witnessed such performances all too often leads to a bit of a disconnect between the fans and the players compared to the strong relationship between them in the past. I’m not justifying people hurling personal abuse out, that of course is never acceptable, but I don’t think it’s unfair for fans to get annoyed and struggle to get behind a team that isn’t leaving it all out on the pitch. It’s one thing losing because your players are bank (like in the prem), but it’s quite another losing because your players can’t be ducked, which is what we’ve seen on a fair few occasions in recent years. 

The other perhaps more significant point, is simply that some people are just bamfords. The people hurling out abuse to players from the stands aren’t just that sort of person at a football match. It’s who they are. They believe they have some god given right to say whatever the duck they want to whoever the duck they want to, but naturally throw their toys out the pram any time they have anything given back to them. I’m sure they act in similar ways in their day to day lives in the workplace etc etc. We all know the sort I’m sure. In the main they’re just morons with no real understanding of the game, often not even paying any attention to what’s happening on the pitch, and who should just be ignored. The thing for me though is that, even though I wasn’t watching football in the old days, I can’t imagine for a second that there weren’t people like that around back then as well. Maybe people just paid less attention to them than they do now? Maybe people have selective memories and choose to forget about them?

[BOB BIGGS]

I only get to a few games as I live in Northumberland so I always look forward to going [Stoke await my pleasure on Friday night?]. It's not too pretty to watch at the moment but those young lads might just change it in time.

I was lucky enough to witness the golden years. Of course, there was less to moan about because we had such brilliant players. However, there were still plenty of folks who liked to have a go [I recall someone once told me that neither Hector nor Todd were good enough...]. However, the great thing then was that if you didn't like someone spouting off, you could just make sure you didn't stand next to them. Once the all-seater stadium rules were introduced, that changed and now you're stuck with your near-neighbours all season if you've got a season ticket.

Also, the Pop Side was full of people who were mainly loyal to the cause. Even on bad days, there would be encouragement. I don't see that now. People are spread around and generally, it seems more difficult to get a collective response from the crowd.

Off the pitch, social media has created a bunch of "experts" at all Clubs, who demand instant success even though it's blatantly obvious that it's not going to happen. We have a few like that too. Unfortunately, social media has changed the way people behave. Not for the better....

[Rams-in-Spain]

36 minutes ago, BOB BIGGS said:

I only get to a few games as I live in Northumberland so I always look forward to going [Stoke await my pleasure on Friday night?]. It's not too pretty to watch at the moment but those young lads might just change it in time.

I was lucky enough to witness the golden years. Of course, there was less to moan about because we had such brilliant players. However, there were still plenty of folks who liked to have a go [I recall someone once told me that neither Hector nor Todd were good enough...]. However, the great thing then was that if you didn't like someone spouting off, you could just make sure you didn't stand next to them. Once the all-seater stadium rules were introduced, that changed and now you're stuck with your near-neighbours all season if you've got a season ticket.

Also, the Pop Side was full of people who were mainly loyal to the cause. Even on bad days, there would be encouragement. I don't see that now. People are spread around and generally, it seems more difficult to get a collective response from the crowd.

Off the pitch, social media has created a bunch of "experts" at all Clubs, who demand instant success even though it's blatantly obvious that it's not going to happen. We have a few like that too. Unfortunately, social media has changed the way people behave. Not for the better....

 

[Blondest Goat]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Completely agree. 

Social media has giving people real delusions of where they stand. 

Nobody is happy being average Joe who nobody gives a toss about. Everybody thinks they have an audience. 

Having a good night out? No? But you're going to make it look like you are on facebook. Not happy with that waiter service but too scared to say owt? Well your twitter account is going to throw a diva strop. 

But through it I think people feel empowered. I think people have long since started to become their online projection of themselves. They think their opinion matters. 

We live in a world now where everyone matters. Everyone has their own little stage. And if I fart on twitter then it gets 200 likes or whatever. 

Thankfully there are people out there still that are happy being nobody. Doing the normal day to day stuff like being civilised and not keeping up appearances. That are comfortable that nobody cares what they think about climate change. That don't really care whether celeb A dates celeb B or if the latest comment from a movie star might offend somebody somewhere. A lot of people are content with their own little unimportant lives they share with their family and friends.

But some people have got so used to being an internet Bamford that they are now a full time Bamford. Too many people actually. Need telling to shut up because nobody gives a toss what they think. And that goes for many celebrities too who also think that the world is watching them like a performing monkey. 

One more thing while I'm moaning. When people say that they say what they think and they aren't bothered what anyone thinks. That bothers me. I am bothered what people think of me. Not everyone. Not knobhead69 on twitter. But I want to be a decent bloke. And that is validated by those you meet. So it's not in the same way that I need 100,000 friends on facebook. But I do care.

Ironically I often find that people who say they don't care what people think try to be outspoken and rude because they care even more so how they appear. 

Great post.  Spot on. 

[Rams-in-Spain]

38 minutes ago, BOB BIGGS said:

I only get to a few games as I live in Northumberland so I always look forward to going [Stoke await my pleasure on Friday night?]. It's not too pretty to watch at the moment but those young lads might just change it in time.

I was lucky enough to witness the golden years. Of course, there was less to moan about because we had such brilliant players. However, there were still plenty of folks who liked to have a go [I recall someone once told me that neither Hector nor Todd were good enough...]. However, the great thing then was that if you didn't like someone spouting off, you could just make sure you didn't stand next to them. Once the all-seater stadium rules were introduced, that changed and now you're stuck with your near-neighbours all season if you've got a season ticket.

Also, the Pop Side was full of people who were mainly loyal to the cause. Even on bad days, there would be encouragement. I don't see that now. People are spread around and generally, it seems more difficult to get a collective response from the crowd.

Off the pitch, social media has created a bunch of "experts" at all Clubs, who demand instant success even though it's blatantly obvious that it's not going to happen. We have a few like that too. Unfortunately, social media has changed the way people behave. Not for the better....

Great Post. Yes sadly we lost what we had with the Pop Side when we moved to Pride Park but we gained so much in other ways. 

[tomsdubs]

Whole country has changed really, politics is more divisive and people live in their own echo chambers of hate. Kids are encouraged to gamble and live in a world where everyone is trying to get attention with role models on Instagram. People who struggle in life have unrealistic expectations or aspirations and then take it out on the players at games.  Materialism, populism, youtubers, instagram models and instant gratification. It isn't limited to one generation either.

I was at a game last year and a lad sat near us, his language was about as bad as it gets. He abused the players continually to the point the people around him had him ejected before half time.

[Mick Brolly]

Boooooooooooooooo 

[48 hours]

4 hours ago, neil62uk said:

Like yourself I've witnessed the good the bad the ugly , From European nights  to 7 - 1 home defeat v Liverpool   and the rest that goes with it . My own opinion is expectations levels and possibly money  are the issues 

I was at the BBG when we lost 7-1. The thing that I remember most was that when the 7th goal went in the whole ground stood and applauded Liverpool - they were brilliant - real 'football' fans.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Possibly things like social media and the general culture of today’s, I want things now. Everything must happen immediately- people are used to watching what they want when they want, voicing opinions immediately on forums, buying things instantly at any time. I guess football has always brought out the worst in people due to its tribal nature but maybe it’s amplified in today’s society where traits such as impatience and stress mean people can’t accept anything other than what they want.

 
Also, I guess the business like nature of the football industry affects fans and owners alike- the massive wealth at the top compared to the struggles of most clubs below means the life span of managers is low these days which means fans accept and want change more quickly and are more quickly disgruntled.  Just my thoughts! 

[neil62uk]

1 hour ago, 48 hours said:

I was at the BBG when we lost 7-1. The thing that I remember most was that when the 7th goal went in the whole ground stood and applauded Liverpool - they were brilliant - real 'football' fans.

Totally agree ,  I guess you were there in the infamous Chelsea home defeat 4 - 6   still remember going 4 - 3 up after being 3 - 1 down .the rest is history ?

[King Kevin]

Social media and the self entitlement of the younger generation.Some not all I may add.

[Sith Happens]

2 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

Social media and the self entitlement of the younger generation.Some not all I may add.

Not just young, have seen some horrible behaviour from much older people at matches. 

 

[LeedsCityRam]

Undoubtedly the prevalence of social media hasn't helped. Neither has the modern society tendency to want everything now & have no patience if things aren't perfect. 

I think the original post was asking more why it had changed amongst Derby fans though & for me, the consistent top 6 finishes have created an expectation & massive frustration that we can't get over the line & go up. Consequently, some of our lot seem to think we should be hammering most teams in the bottom half & this leads to the absolute fury we see both in the stands & on here when things go against us. Whilst I get that the lack of tangible progress since 13/14 is/has been frustrating, it is so counter-productive being venomous towards the club, players & especially the manager. Even now, some people on here can't accept that losing 3 international level loan players, a club captain & a pre-season should have any impact on our ability to finish 6th again. Its madness.

By contrast, when we were competing for in top 6 in 04/05, 06/07 and 13/14, it came as a pleasant change from aimless midtable or bottom half finishes & so the support was a lot more positive. 07/08 was a collective resignation at how out of our depth we were - no point fighting what was as clear as day to us & the entire country so black humour helped to ease some of the pain.

[Half fan]

The wisdom, maturity and common-sense evident in this thread is a tribute to the forum.

A broadsheet could and should turn the contributions of these members into a full page article. It would be a great comment on society, of which football is an illuminating microcosm.

 

[CornwallRam]

I think that players get far less stick at games now than in the past. Social media has given fans an opportunity to vent publically away from games, so the moaning goes on for longer. Paul Emson got more abuse than any Derby player since. I once saw the team getting booed off for only just beating little Birmingham City - OK it was during the 'golden years', but we actually won and they had Trevor Francis in their side. Derby fans have always abused players who didn't appear to be trying. Realistically, it doesn't help things, but to imagine that it's a recent thing is wrong.

[Yani P]

I agree with the posts regarding impact of social media and the inflated self importance it often seems to bestow. 

I also think we can blame the so called social media bubbles where small groups suddenly believe everyone agrees with their opinion where in reality they are just a tiny minority. Just witness the Labour party activists who could not believe they could lose the election as they were just getting agreement from the like minded. 

[Mr Tibbs]

The older generation are the problem.*

Tom Lawrence agrees. So does Malone. The guy ruining everyones RamsTV audio when we're at home also proves this point. Oh but do tell us how many years you've had a season ticket as if it backs any point up in the world. 

 

 

*Just to counter the younger generation self entitlement post. Purely tongue in cheek post. Kind of.

[Alph]

3 hours ago, tomsdubs said:

Whole country has changed really, politics is more divisive and people live in their own echo chambers of hate. Kids are encouraged to gamble and live in a world where everyone is trying to get attention with role models on Instagram. People who struggle in life have unrealistic expectations or aspirations and then take it out on the players at games.  Materialism, populism, youtubers, instagram models and instant gratification. It isn't limited to one generation either.

I was at a game last year and a lad sat near us, his language was about as bad as it gets. He abused the players continually to the point the people around him had him ejected before half time.

This post makes me fuming. Not because I disagree with you just because you nailed it. 

My eldest daughter is 8 and she's turning into this weird kind of mold of her favourite Youtubers. There's TV show called The Next Step she watches. It's a fictional documentary about a dance troupe thing. 

Everything she watches and takes in is all "normal" people who are doing normal stuff but are so fecking interesting. 

Soon she'll be on Instagram and going with her mates on a boring night out but taking crazy photos etc. 

I love to see ambition in people but it's now kind of a rat race to be seen and heard. People lying about what they earn and giving themselves fancy job titles. 

My eldest will end up the same. Putting her best foot forward like her poo don't stink. I'll be battling to try and keep her realistic while not trampling on her dreams. 

Just what a frustrated society it makes for. A real unhappy world where you can't be happy being less than the next person. A real sad and envious world. 

Probably kidding myself thinking I'm not part of it. But I think it's important to try really hard not get caught up in all the shallow rubbish. 

Anyway, it does relate to football. Football fans are people and people live in a world where everything is instant and you're constantly failing at being the coolest best looking person on the ducking planet. 

[Hanny]

I think this post(and it’s question in general) is actually a pretty big topic in sport/life at large. From my observations(at events as well as online), I feel I’ve noticed a significant shift in the aim of supporters. Of course this doesn’t apply to everyone...but I do think it is a shift in the general approach from more and more folks.

Supporters today want to be seen as a supporter, as opposed to being a supporter of the team for themselves. It’s subtle, but a significant difference in mindset when applying it to a struggling side.

We can certainly point to marketing, the money in today’s game, exposure to larger supporter bases with easier access to games(ramsTV, etc). But for what ever the cause(and I’m sure it’s many small things as opposed to one big thing)...supporters are less apt to back a team that’s struggling. 

I love this club. As all of you do, in your way. I do wish for a stronger supporting base...and I don’t mean flag waving, singing, merch purchasing, etc.  All of that is great and makes it fun being a supporter...but it’s always fun when your side is up 2/nil at half. 

I wish for a base that thinks about how damn difficult it is to have all cylinders firing for a club these days. If we as a base become more thoughtful in our approach to the club- we become less focused on the short term chaos and find calm in the storm.

coyr!!!