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EFL charge Derby over ffp

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1 hour ago, Gaspode said:

you do realise that reports state that Marriott is currently injured (again!)?

Er yes, reports.

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I reckon I've come up with a fair solution. As this allegation is for the same season as Brum got their points deduction last season, we should get ours for last season. Instead of making the play offs we really finished mid table. 

To be fair the play offs should be re-run with Boro taking our place. If Villa don't win, they should be instantly relegated. Clearly, that's the fair solution for everyone. 

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31 minutes ago, Duracell said:

What picture do you think they'll use for the official statement? Corner flag? Or is it time to mix it up a bit?

Nah, time to mix it up! I'm gonna go with empty stadium, probs a picture from one of the boxes in the corner.

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1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

Just a quick thought here - FFP was supposed to protect clubs from being exposed by renegade owners spending loads and leaving the club in rotten debts before doing a runner with none of the liability falling on them

FFP is supposed to be doing 2 things at the same time, and as a result it's doing neither very well.  It's supposed to level the playing field, i.e. stop a club with a rich owner spending massively and winning through sheer resources alone.  And it's also supposed to stop clubs spending beyond their means and getting into financial difficulty.

The big problem is the relegated prem clubs and parachute payments.  If you strictly enforced some kind of fair play rules (maybe something like the limit on wages/turnover ratio in Leagues 1 and 2), you'd almost have a 2 tier league - with and without parachute payments (even more so than it is now).  So the clubs are allowed to spend beyond their means, but only by a limited amount (£39m over 3 years).  Which turns out to be the worst of both worlds - clubs without parachute payments still can't compete against clubs with them, but clubs with poor owners are still allowed to spend beyond their means and get into trouble (it's just drip by drip, season by season, not in one massive spending splurge).

And the answer isn't getting rid of parachute payments either, because that makes it almost guaranteed that promoted clubs either have no chance of staying up because they can't spend anything close to what the established prem clubs can, or they do try and spend and go out of business if they ever get relegated.

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  Under the circumstances i don't blame Mel attempting some financial gymnastics to get the club out the hole it has dug itself in and hope that he will be able to overturn this charge. 

However, the reason we are in this situation is because we have overreached in an effort to gain promotion.  i am of the seemingly unpopular opinion that the club should live within it's means and hope that will be the course set for the future.

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2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

FFP is supposed to be doing 2 things at the same time, and as a result it's doing neither very well.  It's supposed to level the playing field, i.e. stop a club with a rich owner spending massively and winning through sheer resources alone.  And it's also supposed to stop clubs spending beyond their means and getting into financial difficulty.

The big problem is the relegated prem clubs and parachute payments.  If you strictly enforced some kind of fair play rules (maybe something like the limit on wages/turnover ratio in Leagues 1 and 2), you'd almost have a 2 tier league - with and without parachute payments (even more so than it is now).  So the clubs are allowed to spend beyond their means, but only by a limited amount (£39m over 3 years).  Which turns out to be the worst of both worlds - clubs without parachute payments still can't compete against clubs with them, but clubs with poor owners are still allowed to spend beyond their means and get into trouble (it's just drip by drip, season by season, not in one massive spending splurge).

And the answer isn't getting rid of parachute payments either, because that makes it almost guaranteed that promoted clubs either have no chance of staying up because they can't spend anything close to what the established prem clubs can, or they do try and spend and go out of business if they ever get relegated.

I think it would be possible to get rid of parachute payments. Instead of paying the money to the relegated clubs it would go into a special fund. Relegated clubs would have to instantly comply with FFP and would be allowed to release players to get their costs down. The released players would have the remainder of their contract paid off using the parachute fund. The resultant asset losses in the clubs' accounts could be counted as outside the FFP calculation. 

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27 minutes ago, Pottig said:

Why did my gif of someone eating popcorn get removed? 

I think the mods are on Defcon1 at the moment.  If it makes you feel better I've had two very clearly fake / satirical newspaper reports pulled that in normal circumstances would have stood.

I'm particularly gutted that it took me ages to come up with a fictional name for the fictional newswriter in a fictional regional newspaper.  RIP Violet Parmo 🤣🤣🤣

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3 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I think it would be possible to get rid of parachute payments. Instead of paying the money to the relegated clubs it would go into a special fund. Relegated clubs would have to instantly comply with FFP and would be allowed to release players to get their costs down. The released players would have the remainder of their contract paid off using the parachute fund. The resultant asset losses in the clubs' accounts could be counted as outside the FFP calculation. 

Only prob with that is players having their contracts paid up then signing for someone else , make poss incentive for player to want their club to get relegated ? Say a player wants a move and club won’t let him go to the club that wants him he can play rubbish and know he can get released on relegation and go to the club that wanted to sign him

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8 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I think it would be possible to get rid of parachute payments. Instead of paying the money to the relegated clubs it would go into a special fund. Relegated clubs would have to instantly comply with FFP and would be allowed to release players to get their costs down. The released players would have the remainder of their contract paid off using the parachute fund. The resultant asset losses in the clubs' accounts could be counted as outside the FFP calculation. 

You're still making it *very* hard for promoted clubs to stay up though.  Are they really going to splash millions on players, knowing that they could all just end up being released a year later?  And getting relegated would potentially mean having the core of your team just disappear overnight, with no incoming cash to try and replace them.

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7 minutes ago, Archied said:

Only prob with that is players having their contracts paid up then signing for someone else , make poss incentive for player to want their club to get relegated ? Say a player wants a move and club won’t let him go to the club that wants him he can play rubbish and know he can get released on relegation and go to the club that wanted to sign him

Employment law would be all over it as well... 

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6 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

You're still making it *very* hard for promoted clubs to stay up though.  Are they really going to splash millions on players, knowing that they could all just end up being released a year later?  And getting relegated would potentially mean having the core of your team just disappear overnight, with no incoming cash to try and replace them.

My solution is allow parachute payments to only be used on liability taken on in the premiere league.

I. E. Parachute money could be used for players signed in the prem (and other costs taken on in the Premier) , but not to fund the promotion challenge as happens now.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Woodypecker said:

I think it's safe to assert that this will become the thread with the new record page-count.

I won't be obsessing or contributing much over this thread; it's too much of a depressing, labyrinthine long-winded mess.

Another thing's also definite: the players have to get their fingers out and win plenty of points, because 60-65 points must be our basic target to enable offsetting a possible points deduction. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst! How will the players respond?

We’ve already been served a triple-whammy, before any judgement is given….

As well as the probable damage to our January transfer prospects and worry over the impending re-financing of the club, it will certainly bu88er up the club's approach to the upcoming season-ticket renewal appeal. 

A points deduction would invoke a four, or even five-way @rse-kick – the above three penalties, the prevention of a play-off push, and if severe, relegation.

WTF are the EFL doing to address the horrendous income disparities between ‘resident’ 2nd-tier clubs like DCFC and those receiving parachute payment? It’s a totally skewed competition. (Yes, I know that doesn’t often lead to a bounce-back promotion for relegated clubs – but the disparity makes others ‘chase the dream’)

I’m sure that these points have been made but apologies, no point in reading every page, we cannae change what’s occurring in ivory towers and must watch & wait.

Mel & Co must be wondering what the hell to write in that 20/21 renewal letter to fans, apart from drawing up their defence alongside an exposition on the shocking disparities built in to a Championship campaign.

 

The season ticket renewals is an interesting one. 

Last year the renewal letter was issued end of January but fans usually have a number of weeks before making a decision so before anyone needs to decide we will have seen the club's response to the EFL statement, several more games played (with recent progress possibly continuing) and the end of the window (possibly with a couple of signings). Each of the factors will surely impact on decisions to renew.

What is unfortunate is that season ticket sales were high this season due to the clamour to buy season tickets as a route to Wembley last May and there was an opportunity to retain much of that customer base. The EFL statement brings uncertainty but other threads have evidenced a strengthening of feeling amongst fans to stick by the club through the tough times that possibly lie ahead so there is an opportunity for the club to leverage that.

The club will have some good data on their season ticket holders and it is not difficult to imagine than around 15,000 would renew come what may and so the club could simply plan on that basis and not worry about others who choose not ti renew. In the past it has also been suggested on this forum that season tickets are not great for the club from a financial perspective as the price paid per game is substantially less than pay on the day. If this is the case, the club may see a reduction in season ticket sales as not necessarily a bad thing if there is confidence that performances and results will pick up next season and entice back those who don't renew their season tickets.

The uncertainty is unhelpful as the outcome could be possible relegation this season (seems unlikely given the timescales to agree any punishment), a points penalty next season, a fine or nothing at all. Trying to manage this through season ticket renewals is difficult but, if the club do want to attract more than the 15,000 hardcore support, there must be something clever they can do....perhaps a reduction through a cashback depending on any penalty the EFL ultimately impose (if applying next season) or a discounted two-year ticket on basis that next season would see the most severe impact.

Regardless, the club need our support now probably more than at any time since the mid-1980s.

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2 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Amazed we haven't put a statement out yet.

Didn’t the club put one out yesterday ( linked on here) disputing EFL and would fight it then stating they would be making no further comment?

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