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v Middlesbrough (A) - Matchday Thread


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These are professional players, they should not need motivating pre match to show what is a basic requirement. If the manager isn't happy at half time and changes to get a positive result, that is a good sign. As for Lawrence, our last 3 managers all picked him when available. I think we are a better team without him but he can do the something out of nothing, which up until Rooney, was the only player who could.

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24 minutes ago, KCG said:

This forum has its fair share of "wrist slashers", but it's also got more than its fair share of "happy clappers", who just can't cope with any criticism of anything Derby County.

I don't think it is unfair to say we have played badly in the majority of our games this season and that our manager loves to tinker (when he doesn't have to). He is also responsible for how the team is set up and the tactics used. We have seemed far too worried about how the opposition might play, rather than concentrating on how we should play.

When it comes to football styles I like managers with the mind-set of Klopp and Guardiola. I like the pressing game and the concentration of making the opposition react to what we do rather than the other way round, which is the way we have played under Cocu. You suggest it's the players choosing to play that way rather than Cocu's instructions. I strongly disagree with you, and would give as an example the game against Barnsley, where we quite clearly in the last 10 mins had a manager instruction to stay in our own half. It was very reminiscent of our days under Nigel Clough ?

The Barnsley last 10 has to be seen in context. It was our second match out of 3 in a week that we had to play the majority with 10. The same side was picked two games running.

Cocu was not happy at half time yesterday. But he was happy with the second half. Maybe, just maybe, the players have to take some responsibility.

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51 minutes ago, KCG said:

This forum has its fair share of "wrist slashers", but it's also got more than its fair share of "happy clappers", who just can't cope with any criticism of anything Derby County.

I don't think it is unfair to say we have played badly in the majority of our games this season and that our manager loves to tinker (when he doesn't have to). He is also responsible for how the team is set up and the tactics used. We have seemed far too worried about how the opposition might play, rather than concentrating on how we should play.

When it comes to football styles I like managers with the mind-set of Klopp and Guardiola. I like the pressing game and the concentration of making the opposition react to what we do rather than the other way round, which is the way we have played under Cocu. You suggest it's the players choosing to play that way rather than Cocu's instructions. I strongly disagree with you, and would give as an example the game against Barnsley, where we quite clearly in the last 10 mins had a manager instruction to stay in our own half. It was very reminiscent of our days under Nigel Clough ?

Bang on mate 

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There is a worryingly consistent pattern this season that is mostly apparent away from home. We just don’t perform in the first half; we are too deep and seem bereft of idea, shape and fight. The only thing I can think of is that it is rooted in how the team is set up and the “mindset” of the players going out onto the pitch.  Surely it’s the responsibility of the coaching staff to address that? Yet it keeps happening! Is it to do with team selection? How would I feel if I was Andre Wisdom? How would I feel if I was Chris Martin? I think I’d feel bewildered and disappointed. I think it’s basic human nature to want to be rewarded for good performances. I think that tinkering with team selection does not build consistency and I think it detracts from morale. Tactically, we invite teams and only want to react once we’re up against it. Boro should have been out of sight by half-time yesterday. They say the definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing and expecting things to change...

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7 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Wrist-slashers still out in force I see

Define 'wrist-slasher' so I know whether to line up! Is it anyone who complains? Or anyone who complains about Cocu? Or anyone who complains about Lawrence? Or anyone how wonders where Sibley went? Or anyone that thinks we could do better?

Who?

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6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Define 'wrist-slasher' so I know whether to line up! Is it anyone who complains? Or anyone who complains about Cocu? Or anyone who complains about Lawrence? Or anyone how wonders where Sibley went? Or anyone that thinks we could do better?

Who?

Line up where you want - I don't give a fig

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19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Define 'wrist-slasher' so I know whether to line up! Is it anyone who complains? Or anyone who complains about Cocu? Or anyone who complains about Lawrence? Or anyone how wonders where Sibley went? Or anyone that thinks we could do better?

Who?

As the song goes “always look on the bright side of life”

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I'm still massively on the fence and will be until he's had a proper summer to stamp his authority on the squad but I just don't get people calling him out for not having a philosophy yet moaning that playing out from the back just isn't working so why are we bothering. 

To me he clearly has a philosophy and credit to him he's not abandoned it yet. Maybe he's not got it across to his players yet. Maybe some players can't adapt to it. (Possibly why he's sent two loan players packing). I can see what he's trying to do even if it's not yet coming off. 

If it means watching half our team be absolute bomb scares on the ball for another 5 months so be it, let's give it time. We aren't blessed with Pep (who it took a year) or a Bielsa (who's got Luke Ayling looking like Alessandro Costacurta). 

Stick to your guns Phil, hopefully the recruitment team do well for you because looking at previous that's going to be one of the main deciding factors. We ballsed up the last time we had a proper identity under Macca by bringing in the wrong type of players. The blueprint was abandoned after that. Let's get it right this time please. 

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1 hour ago, KCG said:

This forum has its fair share of "wrist slashers", but it's also got more than its fair share of "happy clappers", who just can't cope with any criticism of anything Derby County.

What? You mean there's a variance of opinion on a football forum? Jeez, not much gets past you, does it.

In other earth-shattering news, water is wet and bears poop in the woods.

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My appologies to some on here, I've just seen the 15min show of Boro Vs Derby, There's 2 instances I would like to comment on, The 1st is Clarkes 1st tackle in the box, Ref says no penalty, Having slowed it down it shows Clarke catching the Boro players back heel, Should have been a penalty.

2nd incident again involving Clarke, Where I originally said no penalty, The camera angle from behind the goal clearly shows Clarke NOT touching the ball but fouling the player....resulting in the right decision.

God bless Sky and all their Children ?

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2 hours ago, KCG said:

He is also responsible for how the team is set up and the tactics used. We have seemed far too worried about how the opposition might play, rather than concentrating on how we should play.

When it comes to football styles I like managers with the mind-set of Klopp and Guardiola. I like the pressing game and the concentration of making the opposition react to what we do rather than the other way round,

So you'd love Cocu to have the same mind-set as Klopp and Guardiola! Would you also like him to have the same budget and the same time to buld a team that fits in with that mind-set, or just sack him now because he can't get Waghorn, Lawrence and Marriott playing like the Liverpool front 3?

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I agree with RoyMac5 that Cocu is primarily reactive rather than proactive, and this is due entirely to his increasing propensity to pick the wrong players, the wrong team, and indeed regularly chop and change the starting line-up when it’s not necessary. 

Possibly the most glaringly obvious example of this is his rejection of the ‘combination’ that won us the cup tie at Crystal Palace; the triumvirate of our three most talented players, Rooney, Huddlestone and Martin, who ‘pooled’ their game management and talent to run the game, possibly the most promising sign this season that we had discovered the nucleus of a winning, and intelligently attractive, team (The Derby Way?). 

So, what does our ‘esteemed’ manager do ? He drops two of them (Martin and Huddlestone) plus Sibley, who also made a positive contribution to the Palace win; the most obvious error being replacing Martin up front with the woeful and ineffective Martyn Waghorn, a player whose first touch (in stark contrast to that of Chris Martin) is so poor that it virtually guarantees that 90% of our attacks founder on the rocks of his ineptitude. And those who defend him on the basis that he ‘works hard’, ‘runs his **** off’ etc. need to be reminded of David Nugent, another ineffective centre forward who was equally popular with those who only see value in a player who runs around imitating a headless chicken ! 

And what level of footballing knowledge is at play when Cocu, once again, continues to impede our progress towards a settled and competent team capable of promotion, by the inclusion of a player who has failed to impress, to shine, to integrate, into every system that every manager in recent times has chosen to utilise ? I refer of course to Tom Lawrence, a player who barely merits the description of ‘professional footballer’, and offers nothing whatsoever as either a winger or a number 10 ! 

How disappointing this is, after the apparent ‘green shoots’ of the last three games, for our manager to deliberately choose two steps backwards after the promising one step forward we had apparently achieved .. 

 

 

 

 

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