v Middlesbrough (A) - Matchday Thread

[WystonRam]

4 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Iv said previously he’s got premiership quality but a Sunday league brain 

This is basically the difference between top players and those that aren’t. “Football intelligence” i call it. 

[Dimmu]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I was probably a bit harsh to say “by a fair distance“. The only major differences being Rooney getting caught on the ball in fairly dangerous positions a couple of times in the first half... and Lawrence grafted to get our first goal in the second half.

Yeah, all credit for the hard work which will be counted as an assist (for a very, very lucky goal).

Another example why key passes are way more informative stat than assists.

[Dcfcsr92]

2 hours ago, Mazzaram said:

Disagree with plenty here (and I was also at the match). Hamer was fine. Bogle had a poor game. Clarke was very good, and the 'penalty' was a great tackle. Incompetent ref. Cocu was fuming. Lawrence barely deserved 4. Worst display in a Derby shirt. Can't see why he is being picked. The rest of the team clearly don't like him. There is so much more commitment from the rest when he is not in the side. Waggy put in a shift yesterday. Not great, but worth at least 6. Bloke next to me in the stand was on his back from the first whistle, and for the rest of the game; he'll have a heart attack at that rate. However, Waghorn is not a lone striker. We'd have been better with Martin if we were going to play that way.

 

Good point, terrific finish by Holmes.

 

(Actually, it is the ratings that I really disagreed with. Sorry Dcfcsr92; thought you had done them!!

No worries mate i realised that as I was reading it

[Dcfcsr92]

36 minutes ago, jono said:

Not forgetting he fought to keep the ball in in the corner and gave the ball to knight who scored. 

Yes i your right he did very well at that point but offered very little after that my comment was more about clarke rating then just criticism for Lawrence 

[Ellafella]

38 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

U think higher ? I was torn between a 4 and 5 

I won’t ever question his work rate  and it was that which got us that 1st goal.... after he had mid controlled the initial ball to him I hasten to add  
but his play yesterday was truly shocking, I now resign myself to us losing the ball when he gets it Which is sad but true 

Iv said previously he’s got premiership quality but a Sunday league brain 

No sorry @NottsRam77 I do agree with you. I was just flagging up yet another inept display from a player who consistently gets picked. He wouldn’t get in my side. 

[BathRam72]

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

Ooh dear.....get ready for @BathRam72

Do you have a personal vendetta against me or something? I actually agree, Rooney did not get going at all. But to be fair, none of them shone

[RoyMac5]

10 hours ago, S8TY said:

Give it a rest Roy FFS we know you don’t like Cocu....just stop the constant digs...if we win you say it’s luck if we lose it’s Cocus team and selection to blame , if we play badly it’s Cocus bad selection of players if he changes it and it gets better it’s still his fault ....FFS just give it a rest mate 

Its not a constant dig mate. It's a question about yesterdays 1st half performance - or lack of! Happy with it were you, I wasn't.

[RamNut]

26 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Do you have a personal vendetta against me or something? I actually agree, Rooney did not get going at all. But to be fair, none of them shone

Pulling your leg. 

[Derby blood]

20 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Its not a constant dig mate. It's a question about yesterdays 1st half performance - or lack of! Happy with it were you, I wasn't.

First half was not good but Cocu got into them, and told them so, second half much better so well done to Cocu for that, he is here to stay, so let's get behind him, I agreed with the starting 11, apart from Lawrence, but all managers picked him, and for me he has always been inconsistent, but the last 3 managers can not all be wrong. For what's it worth I like Cocu and I hope he has success with us, and think he will, but it will take a bit of time, and I can see an improvement since Rooney came, and with players coming back I see us having a decent season from now on 

 

 

[Coneheadjohn]

Sunday on the forum.

 

[RoyMac5]

31 minutes ago, Derby blood said:

First half was not good but Cocu got into them, and told them so, second half much better so well done to Cocu for that.

Except it wasn't just that he 'got into them', he changed the formation too. Perhaps he should have started like that, we always seem to be reactive rather than proactive.

[ossieram]

27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Except it wasn't just that he 'got into them', he changed the formation too. Perhaps he should have started like that, we always seem to be reactive rather than proactive.

As long we do do react and not just persist in playing in a way that is working! Don't all managers react when things aren't going right?

Do you thing that Klopp and Pep don't watch the game and change things accordingly if the original game plan isn't working?

[sonofmidnight]

23 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Except it wasn't just that he 'got into them', he changed the formation too. Perhaps he should have started like that, we always seem to be reactive rather than proactive

Fully agree. Surely the manager ought to send them out at the start firing on all cylinders, full of passion  and desire. Also Lawrence shouldn't be on the pitch and I only hope he's there so somebody comes in with an offer for him- but he ain't doing himself any favours!

[DarkFruitsRam7]

3 minutes ago, Dappled Ram said:

Fully agree. Surely the manager ought to send them out at the start firing on all cylinders, full of passion  and desire. Also Lawrence shouldn't be on the pitch and I only hope he's there so somebody comes in with an offer for him- but he ain't doing himself any favours!

I wonder which traits allowed Lawrence to battle for the ball in the corner and assist Jason Knight for our first goal? If I had to name two, it would be passion and desire. 

[sonofmidnight]

Passion and desire was aimed at the team as a whole. 

[Donny Ram]

Thought some of Rooneys link up play was good, just kept things ticking over. He was certainly more effective when he pushed forward in the first 20 minutes of the second half. Regardless of Lawrence’s performance , was disappointing to hear fans booing him when he was substituted; Whittaker did okay when he got a few minutes on the pitch.

Thought Clarke had a good game, I was sat in corporate down that end  and certainly looked like he got the ball. Holmes had a decent game, thought Waggy put a shift in too.

[TramRam]

12 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I wonder which traits allowed Lawrence to battle for the ball in the corner and assist Jason Knight for our first goal? If I had to name two, it would be passion and desire. 

Just a shame that this "passion and desire" isn't reflected in a host of games this season.

Managers at the end of a game when interviewed will use an over stated "commitment, Passion, Desire, Response" concerning their players, It's as though these players need to be told of their duties on the pitch, As one poster on here said "it boils my piss" when players should be giving their all every game, Give me a player that gives his best and i'll show you a player that gets respect, It's those with the talent but lack the enthusiasm that duck me off.

[LazloW]

To some, when we lose or play badly it is only ever the manager’s fault.  It never has anything to do with the players not doing what they were told, having a bad game, the opposition playing well, the opposition actually wanting to win (heaven forbid), referees having stinkers, bad luck or anything else.  

To those same people, when we win, or play well, it often seems that the manager had nothing to do with it.  It’s mostly that the opposition were rubbish, or their players weren’t playing well, or we wanted it more or we had some luck.  

Some seem to see it as a negative that when the manager sees it isn’t going well, that they change things to fix the problem.  They only see it as a negative when our manager does it, mind.  Other managers will be seen as tactical geniuses for doing the same.

To me, it is a good sign when your manager identified a problem and does Something about it.  To others, it means they got it wrong in the first place and should be roundly criticised for this (again, not reflecting on the fact that all plans go out of the window once the match starts; the game being played in the real world, with human beings rather than on paper by bots).

It really does seem that once some minds are made up about something, they find it impossible to move an inch from that position.

Cocu hasn’t done enough for me to be a strong advocate for him as yet.  But having considered the context we are in, I see no reason to believe he has done anything to be considered ‘clueless‘.   Yesterday would tend to point to the opposite of cluelessness (and I can say that while not entirely agreeing with his team selection!)

[Ramarena]

22 minutes ago, LazloW said:

To some, when we lose or play badly it is only ever the manager’s fault.  It never has anything to do with the players not doing what they were told, having a bad game, the opposition playing well, the opposition actually wanting to win (heaven forbid), referees having stinkers, bad luck or anything else.  

To those same people, when we win, or play well, it often seems that the manager had nothing to do with it.  It’s mostly that the opposition were rubbish, or their players weren’t playing well, or we wanted it more or we had some luck.  

Some seem to see it as a negative that when the manager sees it isn’t going well, that they change things to fix the problem.  They only see it as a negative when our manager does it, mind.  Other managers will be seen as tactical geniuses for doing the same.

To me, it is a good sign when your manager identified a problem and does Something about it.  To others, it means they got it wrong in the first place and should be roundly criticised for this (again, not reflecting on the fact that all plans go out of the window once the match starts; the game being played in the real world, with human beings rather than on paper by bots).

It really does seem that once some minds are made up about something, they find it impossible to move an inch from that position.

Cocu hasn’t done enough for me to be a strong advocate for him as yet.  But having considered the context we are in, I see no reason to believe he has done anything to be considered ‘clueless‘.   Yesterday would tend to point to the opposite of cluelessness (and I can say that while not entirely agreeing with his team selection!)

Indeed how many times over the years have we  lost a game and heard “their manager saw the problems and changed it, we didn’t have a plan B”

Seems you can never win!

 

[KCG]

31 minutes ago, LazloW said:

To some, when we lose or play badly it is only ever the manager’s fault.  It never has anything to do with the players not doing what they were told, having a bad game, the opposition playing well, the opposition actually wanting to win (heaven forbid), referees having stinkers, bad luck or anything else.  

To those same people, when we win, or play well, it often seems that the manager had nothing to do with it.  It’s mostly that the opposition were rubbish, or their players weren’t playing well, or we wanted it more or we had some luck.

This forum has its fair share of "wrist slashers", but it's also got more than its fair share of "happy clappers", who just can't cope with any criticism of anything Derby County.

I don't think it is unfair to say we have played badly in the majority of our games this season and that our manager loves to tinker (when he doesn't have to). He is also responsible for how the team is set up and the tactics used. We have seemed far too worried about how the opposition might play, rather than concentrating on how we should play.

When it comes to football styles I like managers with the mind-set of Klopp and Guardiola. I like the pressing game and the concentration of making the opposition react to what we do rather than the other way round, which is the way we have played under Cocu. You suggest it's the players choosing to play that way rather than Cocu's instructions. I strongly disagree with you, and would give as an example the game against Barnsley, where we quite clearly in the last 10 mins had a manager instruction to stay in our own half. It was very reminiscent of our days under Nigel Clough ?