The Politics Thread 2020

[nottingram]

26 minutes ago, jono said:

Yes pretty much so. I can’t say I would have done what he / they did, or that I approve but if I felt I needed to go in to a grey area for what I felt was a valid reason I am sure I would have had a story to tell to justify it to myself and anyone who asked. .. it is a grey area, it’s interpretation. The way it’s being projected by those who want his scalp for various reasons isn’t grey. They are talking as if he walked in to an ICU and started coughing. ... 

I might as well ask why have you taken your stance ? Is it 

A) I don’t like Cummings, his politics and the party he works for 

or 

B ) He has put vast numbers of people at risk for no good reason at all 

No, that was just his wife and son

In truth I am not sure I understand the line of thinking that the reason for people thinking his actions are deplorable must be because they don’t like him, the government he advises, Brexit or any other concoction. I would like to think that many people just find his actions deplorable. Some don’t and that is fine too, and I’m not about to argue that that’s because they love him, the government he advises, Brexit or any other concoction.

Anyway, I have read many pieces against him now that are very much digging up other dirt which I think is at risk of undermining the initial argument that he did something wrong. It’s apparent there’ll be no resignation or further enquiry so it may be time to move on, especially as I think we can all agree we wouldn’t want the government to be ignoring any science and easing any lockdown measures just to move things along in the media, ahem. 

[Eddie]

I think that if there is a second peak as far as infections and deaths are concerned, then in honour of Cummings being the inspiration behind others breaking the lockdown rules, that peak ought to be named Mount Dominic.

[jono]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

It is his conduct after the event that I particularly despise. The blatant lies by both him and his wife, rather than be candid and open from the off "we did this because.....we thought we were within the guidelines that say the following...….but if our interpretation was not as intended then we apologise, we were doing what we thought best".

And then the apparent contempt in which he holds his fellow members of society who have applied different interpretations

I don't know his personal political affiliation. His job is for the PM but that is a different matter. Therefore there is no political angle at all. The angles are of conduct, moral leadership and contemptuous weaselling.

But surely we all have a sense of something at one point and that is subject to change given other inputs Or the passage of time. ?
 I think much of any perceived indifference or contempt is something that arrives when we have the style of “gotcha” journalism that is all too prevalent. 
 

I can’t help feeling that the Durham police statement sums up this whole case .. He “may” have been guilty of a “minor” breach. I suspect that may be right. It’s noteworthy because of his position but in the grand plan of things it has had attention way beyond what is reasonable .. and the reasons for that are most definitely party political rather than the actions themselves. 

[Curtains]

44 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I think that if there is a second peak as far as infections and deaths are concerned, then in honour of Cummings being the inspiration behind others breaking the lockdown rules, that peak ought to be named Mount Dominic.

Edited 

 

[BriggRam]

a

 

[Highgate]

1 hour ago, jono said:

He is a frightening and unpleasant individual but the thing that disturbs me most is that such a large portion of American society seems to agree with him. What does that say about those Americans ? 

I despise the far left, it’s no secret, but Trump is exactly how the far right can rise if so many people in one place accept its kinda of “ok” - which they do -  it makes me shudder and we all need to be on our guard. 
 

How could he have won the Republican nomination in the first place...how could he have been elected president?  How is it after nearly 4 year of behaving like Donald Trump could he still have a decent chance of being re-elected? 

I don't have the answers to be honest, everything about the Trump presidency seems entirely bizarre to me.  But I think the fact that the US is a two-party system is partly to blame.  That helps create a divisive 'them' and 'us' mentality for a lot of voters, who will simply vote for their party's nomination regardless of the nature of the candidate himself.   Distrust in the media helps too and Trump has managed to reduce levels of faith in the media alarmingly.  It simply doesn't matter what most of the media says about him, his Republican voters simply won't believe it. 

I think there is a level of religiosity in sections of the US that is very difficult for people in the UK or Europe in general to comprehend.  Despite his own glaring immorality, the fact that he appoints conservative supreme court judges, and threatens abortion rights and gay marriage really helps him with the evangelical voting block.  And it's the same with the 2nd Amendment debate,  he's with the Gun lobby because that's where his voters are. Basically he really knows what a lot of Republican voters want, it's just a shame they all seem to want such awful things... ?.  He says what they want to hear, and any media correction or contradiction can be dismissed as fake news. 

It's a deeply alarming situation that the world's most influential country, is descending into political chaos. 

[uttoxram75]

51 minutes ago, jono said:

But surely we all have a sense of something at one point and that is subject to change given other inputs Or the passage of time. ?
 I think much of any perceived indifference or contempt is something that arrives when we have the style of “gotcha” journalism that is all too prevalent. 
 

I can’t help feeling that the Durham police statement sums up this whole case .. He “may” have been guilty of a “minor” breach. I suspect that may be right. It’s noteworthy because of his position but in the grand plan of things it has had attention way beyond what is reasonable .. and the reasons for that are most definitely party political rather than the actions themselves. 

Tbf, If it was just party political I don't think you'd have Tory MP's, Tory supporting newspapers and Tory voters giving it the attention they have.

[1967Ram]

Rishi Sunak is not an economic miracle worker: he's just a standard ideologue 

'The only organisation capable of bearing the cost of the coming economic crisis is the government. Sunak seems to think that it's the one organisation that should not do so. Big mistake. This man is as dangerous as his colleagues'

 

'...... because Sunak still wants to play this banker’s game - that the government is in debt and in hock to the markets when it’s not - millions of people will suffer.

That’s not competence. That is gross indifference to real people’s plight in pursuit of mistaken ideology. And that’s most certainly not a sign of economic competence.'

Not my field of expertise but you may find this interesting.

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2020/05/30/rishi-sunak-is-not-an-economic-miracle-worker-hes-just-a-standard-ideologue/

[jono]

2 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Tbf, If it was just party political I don't think you'd have Tory MP's, Tory supporting newspapers and Tory voters giving it the attention they have.

I think that’s a good point but at the same time I still see it as very much like Alastair Campbell .. he is one of those advisor, thinker manipulator Machiavellian types who attracts enemies everywhere. Yes I know, more excuses, but regardless of wriggling (and he’s squirmed a lot) in the cold light of day what he did was pretty ordinary in terms of possible none compliance with some pretty solid mitigation behind it. Yet we have had this huge none story. 

[GboroRam]

I see the rioters have killed a policeman in the George Floyd protests, which made it 1-1, but the cops are back in front after shooting a teen in the crowd. 

[1967Ram]

1 minute ago, jono said:

I think that’s a good point but at the same time I still see it as very much like Alastair Campbell .. he is one of those advisor, thinker manipulator Machiavellian types who attracts enemies everywhere. Yes I know, more excuses, but regardless of wriggling (and he’s squirmed a lot) in the cold light of day what he did was pretty ordinary in terms of possible none compliance with some pretty solid mitigation behind it. Yet we have had this huge none story. 

It's only a 'huge non story' because he didn't resign and because Boris didn't sack him. It would have disappeared a long time ago if either had happened. One of those two things should have happened IMO.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

If the government want us to move on from Cummings let's do that. Let's move on to the fact that a group of the government scientists are saying the easing of lockdown measures is happening too quickly based on the infection rates. 

They love saying they follow the science, so what has changed? 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52858392

[A Ram for All Seasons]

Boris loves shutting them up when they are asked questions at his press conferences. All they have to do is stand there and look scientific.

[Norman]

6 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

If the government want us to move on from Cummings let's do that. Let's move on to the fact that a group of the government scientists are saying the easing of lockdown measures is happening too quickly based on the infection rates. 

They love saying they follow the science, so what has changed? 

How big is this group? 

34 under 40's have died who didn't have preexisting medical conditions, I've just read. 

Yet, we are all expected to stay in lockdown until when? The ecomony is ducked already. 

If you've got a preexisting medical condition, old, or fat... Shield yourself. Just like Eddie. Not calling him fat BTW. 

The rest of us really should be allowed to keep working etc. 

And if you are fat, start losing weight and help the NHS out a bit. 

[Norman]

Basically, instead of clapping with your hands once a week, get those thighs clapping 3 times a week. 

[Angry Ram]

20 minutes ago, Norman said:

How big is this group? 

34 under 40's have died who didn't have preexisting medical conditions, I've just read. 

Yet, we are all expected to stay in lockdown until when? The ecomony is ducked already. 

If you've got a preexisting medical condition, old, or fat... Shield yourself. Just like Eddie. Not calling him fat BTW. 

The rest of us really should be allowed to keep working etc. 

And if you are fat, start losing weight and help the NHS out a bit. 

Exactly. I ticked two boxes. Age I can’t do much about nearly 60. However I can control my weight and I’ve lost two stone. Still not under 40 but hopefully if I do get it, I‘ve given myself a better chance. 
 

[Bob The Badger]

Trump 

45 minutes ago, Norman said:

And if you are fat, start losing weight and help the NHS out a bit. 

And if you smoke, stop to help the NHS

And if you drink alcohol, stop that too because that causes more deaths than smoking and a lot of the effects are insidious and you may not know until you stroke out or have a heart attack.

That will really help the NHS.

And if you're always angry, stop that too because it plays havoc with your blood pressure can causes long term medical consequences.

And if you don't exercise regularly, start!

[Bob The Badger]

Trump can always be tripped up by his own tweets. After sying that any President is responsible for the economy no matter how it happens and should be shot out of a cannon during Obama's presidency, there's this from 2014. What an upper muppet.

[Norman]

9 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Trump 

And if you smoke, stop to help the NHS

And if you drink alcohol, stop that too because that causes more deaths than smoking and a lot of the effects are insidious and you may not know until you stroke out or have a heart attack.

That will really help the NHS.

And if you're always angry, stop that too because it plays havoc with your blood pressure can causes long term medical consequences.

And if you don't exercise regularly, start!

Except smoking seems to help you resist the virus. 

Being fat is a direct problem with this virus. Hence why our death rate is so high. 

65 percent of people over 40 are fat. 

[Norman]

43 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Exactly. I ticked two boxes. Age I can’t do much about nearly 60. However I can control my weight and I’ve lost two stone. Still not under 40 but hopefully if I do get it, I‘ve given myself a better chance. 
 

Well done, you old duck.