The Politics Thread 2020

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

I actually personally don't like you mocking Van Tam. I built the blokes extension. He's massively intelligent, hugely respected, done massive things for Nottingham University etc. He is tired. He's working massively long hours. Do you genuinely believe a hugely talented, intelligent bloke doesn't know he made a slip up? 

 

But if he was a Labour MP who made a mistake after working long hours, would you feel the same level of sympathy? 

What if the MP was a black woman?

[Comrade 86]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No need for it to be tongue in cheek, it's a valid point to raise.

Who are the 2 that have gone on record?

Don't think we'll get to know that buddy. They'd be off SAGE in a heartbeat for talking to the media I reckon. It's a report from Sky citing 'sources' so in all honesty, we have to take it at face value or not at all. In truth, I've as little confidence in the media as I do the government, but that's another story!

[1of4]

51 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

How many members are on the scientific advisory group?

Personally, I'd say that the advice sounds sensible.

If it's only say 2 out of 20 members though, surely you would go with the other 18.

I dont know the answer to this by the way, hence asking the question.

Sorry I'm in the same boat as you, as to knowing how many sit and to what portion of of them the government take their advice off, because the government appear to be reluctant to release this data.

But @Norman states there's 11 member. Not sure where he got that information, maybe off his bestie mate Mr Van Tam, so again not sure how reliable this number is. You could always ask Norm for the source of this information, like you normally do when people post various facts and information.

As for you saying the information given out by the government that is reputedly from this advice group is sound. Why is that, when you yourself say you have no idea who sits on this advisory committee or what portion of them the government actually listen to.

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Sorry I'm in the same boat as you, as to knowing how many sit and to what portion of of them the government take their advice off, because the government appear to be reluctant to release this data.

Agree that this information  should be released as a matter of urgency.

But @Norman states there's 11 member. Not sure where he got that information, maybe off his bestie mate Mr Van Tam, so again not sure how reliable this number is. You could always ask Norm for the source of this information, like you normally do when people post various facts and information.

Reserached it myself. The Government have released a list of 50 members of SAGE and there were 2 that did not wish to have their identities disclosed.

As for you saying the information given out by the government that is reputedly from this advice group is sound. Why is that, when you yourself say you have no idea who sits on this advisory committee or what portion of them the government actually listen to.

I meant the advice to not re-open until track and trace was in place seems sound enough. If not taken on board I would expect the Government to explain why not.

 

[Norman]

26 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

But if he was a Labour MP who made a mistake after working long hours, would you feel the same level of sympathy? 

What if the MP was a black woman?

He's the son of an immigrant. Why are you bringing race into it again? 

I don't know which way he votes, I'd assume Labour. Just from the fields he works in and the company he keeps. 

[Norman]

45 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Have you been out drinking with him again? How many pints did he have. We need to be told.

No. I've not seen him. 

I just know the amount of investment he manged to bring into Nottingham University requires a bit of respect. 

[Norman]

20 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Sorry I'm in the same boat as you, as to knowing how many sit and to what portion of of them the government take their advice off, because the government appear to be reluctant to release this data.

But @Norman states there's 11 member. Not sure where he got that information, maybe off his bestie mate Mr Van Tam, so again not sure how reliable this number is. You could always ask Norm for the source of this information, like you normally do when people post various facts and information.

As for you saying the information given out by the government that is reputedly from this advice group is sound. Why is that, when you yourself say you have no idea who sits on this advisory committee or what portion of them the government actually listen to.

Depends whether you are looking at the Sage committee or the original scientific council numbers 

Either way, the source quoted is dog poo. 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

27 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

But @Norman states there's 11 member. Not sure where he got that information, maybe off his bestie mate Mr Van Tam, so again not sure how reliable this number is. You could always ask Norm for the source of this information, like you normally do when people post various facts and information

It was leaked to the Guardian a long time ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/coronavirus-whos-who-on-secret-scientific-group-advising-uk-government-sage

[Comrade 86]

13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Reserached it myself. The Government have released a list of 50 members of SAGE and there were 2 that did not wish to have their identities disclosed.

It's a funny one because the Guardian have run two articles on this. The first estimated that there were around 20 in the group, the next that the government were saying there are dozens. Who really knows? And more to the point, how is policy decided - by vote or are arguments made and then someone decides? Some of the advisors have bemoaned Cummings' sway but again, who knows? There's zero transparency and this is probably not healthy for a number of reasons.

Bit of a sidenote but apparently they meet in person so one thing we can sensibly deduce is that they must have a sizeable conference room the 50+ claim is true ?

[Stive Pesley]

15 minutes ago, Norman said:

The people I mock, don't tend to be intelligent, hugely respected people that have contributed a lot to our society. 

As a general rule - if your humour tends to involve punching down and not up then that's not a good look

 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

It's a funny one because the Guardian have run two articles on this. The first estimated that there were around 20 in the group, the next that the government were saying there are dozens. Who really knows? And more to the point, how is policy decided - by vote or are arguments made and then someone decides? Some of the advisors have bemoaned Cummings' sway but again, who knows? There's zero transparency and this is probably not healthy for a number of reasons.

Bit of a sidenote but apparently they meet in person so one thing we can sensibly deduce is that they must have a sizeable conference room the 50+ claim is true ?

The Government released the list of 50 on 04/05/2020. Going to assume, at least hope, that there is more reliable than the Guardians guess.

I'd also assume one person having sway, over a committee of 50 professional people, is just poo stirring by the media.

[Norman]

10 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

It was leaked to the Guardian a long time ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/coronavirus-whos-who-on-secret-scientific-group-advising-uk-government-sage

That isn't the scientific council. 

Unless they are talking about the Sage committee set up at the start of the pandemic? 

But it's not clear. And is ******** anyway. 

[Comrade 86]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The Government released the list of 50 on 04/05/2020. Going to assume, at least hope, that there is more reliable than the Guardians guess.

I'd also assume one person having sway, over a committee of 50 professional people, is just poo stirring by the media.

The government are full of it and so are the media. That's the only assumption I make these days.

[GboroRam]

34 minutes ago, Norman said:

He's the son of an immigrant. Why are you bringing race into it again? 

I don't know which way he votes, I'd assume Labour. Just from the fields he works in and the company he keeps. 

I am showing the cognitive bias at play. Abbott and Labour are fair game because you disagree with them. A similar mistake but by someone you agree with and sympathise with is something not only you disagree with, but defend him over. 

[Norman]

7 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I am showing the cognitive bias at play. Abbott and Labour are fair game because you disagree with them. A similar mistake but by someone you agree with and sympathise with is something not only you disagree with, but defend him over. 

No. I don't know what decisions he has taken, what political leanings he has, who he votes for. All I know is he will be doing his best for this country. Which is all he can do. 

But I respect him. Working class, with kids in a normal school etc. He's a top bloke, who is hugely talented. 

There is plenty not to respect about Abbott including her antics over her son recently and her comments on divide and conquer to name a few. They aren't mistakes. They are calculated. 

It's the need to use a slip up by an 'adviser' being used as a tactic to make the government look more incompetent. 

Because that's why it is posted and talked about. The truth is, his track record shows anything but. And he is separate to the government. 

[GboroRam]

1 minute ago, Norman said:

No. I don't know what decisions he has taken, what political leanings he has, who he votes for. 

But I respect him. Working class, with kids in a normal school etc. He's a top bloke, who is hugely talented. 

There is plenty not to respect about Abbott including her antics over her son recently and her comments on divide and conquer to name a few. They aren't mistakes. They are calculated. 

But the maths she got most mocking over wasn't.

[Norman]

5 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

But the maths she got most mocking over wasn't.

But she isn't a person to be respected. We all know her many failings. Including her handling of her son just lately for political gain. Some of her comments have been vile. 

And the maths wasn't a mistake, it was a lack of knowledge followed by ******** to cover up her ineptitude. 

Fair game if you ask me. 

[Comrade 86]

8 minutes ago, Norman said:

No. I don't know what decisions he has taken, what political leanings he has, who he votes for. All I know is he will be doing his best for this country. Which is all he can do. 

But I respect him. Working class, with kids in a normal school etc. He's a top bloke, who is hugely talented. 

There is plenty not to respect about Abbott including her antics over her son recently and her comments on divide and conquer to name a few. They aren't mistakes. They are calculated. 

It's the need to use a slip up by an 'adviser' being used as a tactic to make the government look more incompetent. 

Because that's why it is posted and talked about. The truth is, his track record shows anything but. And he is separate to the government. 

It's ok mate. Despite your loose affiliation to Trot activists like myself, that contract you've got to sort out his decking is still secure ? 

[Norman]

14 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

It's ok mate. Despite your loose affiliation to Trot activists like myself, that contract you've got to sort out his decking is still secure ? 

I will worry. Due to the Trot activists like you, you can't get building materials, nevermind get a job. 

Good job I'm in the prison service. 

[1of4]

21 minutes ago, Norman said:

I will worry. Due to the Trot activists like you, you can't get building materials, nevermind get a job. 

Good job I'm in the prison service. 

Bloody hell, I know the government shutdown builders merchants along with the rest of the country. But I wasn't aware that  Johnson and and his cabinet were Trot activists.