G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: Let’s be clear about what has happened here. G Star posted a link to the story for no apparent reason. No one goaded him into posting it. He clearly posted it to goad those of us who don’t think it’s a good idea to racialise crime. I didn’t bite until he continued to refer to “it” rather than be brave enough to state what his actual problem is in plain English. I merely questioned what he meant by “it”. His response – a laughing emoji He even then showed his impatience to be called out on it “*awaits incoming accusations of racism and claims that this is happening in all communities “ Yet still I haven’t made any comments on the story, so I suggest you apologise for suggesting I am trying to troll/goad him into a reaction. I am not engaging in a debate on religion/sexual abuse on the politics thread as they are both banned subjects. G Star should probably get a warning for his behaviour in posting it in the first place and then trolling for a reaction I beg your pardon? I posted it as it is yet another case of child grooming that the Government will probably not react to. I don't need to 'be brave enough' to state what the problem is, people can make their own mind up on what the problem is. But there will be some of us out there who are not afraid to say that Muslim grooming gangs are a major problem and something needs to be done to stop this happening on such a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: But there will be some of us out there who are not afraid to say that Muslim grooming gangs are a major problem and something needs to be done to stop this happening on such a regular basis. I'm not engaging with this debate any more as the topic seems to be under sieg from the right wingers Just have a read of some proper research. I know how you all love to claim you take your views from a balanced set of sources... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0306396819895727 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I'm not engaging with this debate any more as the topic seems to be under sieg from the right wingers Just have a read of some proper research. I know how you all love to claim you take your views from a balanced set of sources... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0306396819895727 Sorry, not reading any links posted by radical left wingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I'm not engaging with this debate any more as the topic seems to be under sieg from the right wingers Just have a read of some proper research. I know how you all love to claim you take your views from a balanced set of sources... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0306396819895727 As far back as 2014:- https://fullfact.org/crime/grooming-gangs-what-we-know-about-perpetrators-and-victims/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAjfvwBRCkARIsAIqSWlOrA-gFoo3PSr6wlq8LkPTr5NrFiii4EuR5KaMUpopRBoFjrrQa7RYaAo1zEALw_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Sorry, not reading any links posted by radical left wingers. Choosing to stay ignorant? Can't say I'm surprised The author is an associate professor at University College London in the Department of Security and Crime Science and a visiting research fellow at Leiden University. Her research focuses on human trafficking, child sexual exploitation and labour exploitation. In seeking evidence-informed responses to complex issues, she has worked closely with organisations across the public, private and third sectors. Her book Offender and Victim Networks in Human Trafficking was published by Routledge in 2018. Have you had enough of experts, or is her expertise in all types of child abuse and exploitation too wide to fit your specialist niche interest in the subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Choosing to stay ignorant? Can't say I'm surprised The author is an associate professor at University College London in the Department of Security and Crime Science and a visiting research fellow at Leiden University. Her research focuses on human trafficking, child sexual exploitation and labour exploitation. In seeking evidence-informed responses to complex issues, she has worked closely with organisations across the public, private and third sectors. Her book Offender and Victim Networks in Human Trafficking was published by Routledge in 2018. Have you had enough of experts, or is her expertise in all types of child abuse and exploitation too wide to fit your specialist niche interest in the subject? Maybe you could present her with the figures in the next link that I posted (one that was from 2014 since which time many more cases have come to light) and get her to give her expert opinion on them? Maybe show her this source, for her expert opinion:- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/14/police-officers-knowingly-neglected-girls-exploited-grooming/ Just out of interest, you mentioned a 'balanced set of sources' yet only posted a link to one source...how is that balanced? You've just found one source that suits your agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Maybe you could present her with the figures in the next link that I posted (one that was from 2014 since which time many more cases have come to light) and get her to give her expert opinion on them? Maybe show her this source, for her expert opinion:- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/14/police-officers-knowingly-neglected-girls-exploited-grooming/ Just out of interest, you mentioned a 'balanced set of sources' yet only posted a link to one source...how is that balanced? You've just found one source that suits your agenda. You haven't even read it - stop embarassing yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: You haven't even read it - stop embarassing yourself Yep, I am so embarrassed. Why would I need to read an 'experts' opinion? Also not sure why I would need to read anything to know that one source does not constitute a 'balanced set of sources'. Facts and figures are there for all to see...apart from the people that don't want to see them and will look for any source to try and deflect away from the issue of course, they are the people that should be embarrassed...all in my opinion of course...afterall I am no expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Have you had enough of experts, or is her expertise in all types of child abuse and exploitation too wide to fit your specialist niche interest in the subject? Most child abuse is done by a family member or close friend which is very difficult to identify. The child abuse we're talking about is more overt and has been wilfully overlooked despite mounting evidence and cries for help. Some perpetrators have even been known to the police for a long time, yet still its been allowed to continue, The only thing they have in common is children are being abused. A crap analogy would be having an interest in preventing the relatively small number of drink driving deaths (270 in 2019) when people get killed everyday on the roads (almost 2000 in 2019). Are you so dismissive of people that campaign soley for drink driving awareness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Yep, I am so embarrassed. Why would I need to read an 'experts' opinion? Also not sure why I would need to read anything to know that one source does not constitute a 'balanced set of sources'. Facts and figures are there for all to see...apart from the people that don't want to see them and will look for any source to try and deflect away from the issue of course, they are the people that should be embarrassed...all in my opinion of course...afterall I am no expert. Because if you'd read it you'd see that it wasn't trying to deflect from the issue, that's not why I posted it. You don't even know what it's about - as you keep proving, I apologise for posting academic papers that discuss the issue sensitively and carefully. The old adage is true. You can't educate mince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said: Because if you'd read it you'd see that it wasn't trying to deflect from the issue, that's not why I posted it. You don't even know what it's about - as you keep proving, I apologise for posting academic papers that discuss the issue sensitively and carefully. The old adage is true. You can't educate mince True...hence why some people think a 'balanced set of sources' is one article... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: True...hence why some people think a 'balanced set of sources' is one article... That's not what I said. I was offering it (an academic paper) as a counter-balance to the ones you've posted (right wing news articles designed to cause outrage). The irony being that you're still refusing to read it, yet trying to make out that I'm the one who doesn't understand what balance is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: That's not what I said. I was offering it (an academic paper) as a counter-balance to the ones you've posted (right wing news articles designed to cause outrage). The irony being that you're still refusing to read it, yet trying to make out that I'm the one who doesn't understand what balance is ? So wouldn't balanced be somewhere between the article that I posted (under my guise of a right winger taking the forum under siege) and the article that you posted? Or by balanced did you mean that your article is correct because it conforms to your view of the matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, maxjam said: The child abuse we're talking about is more overt and has been wilfully overlooked despite mounting evidence and cries for help. Some perpetrators have even been known to the police for a long time, yet still its been allowed to continue, You could equally be talking about Yewtree cases, or the Catholic church there though. The other thing these have in common is that it happens where a set of people consolidate power and exploit the vulnerable. You should read the academic paper - it's really interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: You could equally be talking about Yewtree cases, or the Catholic church there though. The other thing these have in common is that it happens where a set of people consolidate power and exploit the vulnerable. You should read the academic paper - it's really interesting. The difference between grooming gangs and say the Catholic Church is that the Catholic Church scandal was the 5th most talked about story in the media throughout the entire decade it broke (just had a quick look to find where I recall that stat from but can't find it) whereas reports of grooming gangs are buried in regional news by the BBC and have been allowed to carry on due to years of looking the other way and political correctness. A quick google search returned pages and pages of websites talking about how to spot the signs of child abuse (and how difficult it is to spot), yet authorities knew that this was going on, who was doing it and why yet until recently nothing was done about it. Even now, we're only scratching the surface and its an incredibly difficult thing to discuss without being called out as racist, far-right, islamophobic etc. The Augusta Report that came out the other day once again stated that political correctness was a problem and that both victims and their attackers were known to authorities. Its a national scandal that is still ongoing, children and parents need to be made aware of potential dangers and how to prevent it happening, not for it to be ignored and covered up. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gangs-sex-abuse-manchester-police-exploitation-asian-a9283146.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1579021383 Dozens of teenage girls suspected of being groomed and abused in Manchester by gangs of men from Asian backgrounds were failed because police feared upsetting race relations, a new probe has suggested. Victims repeatedly alerted officers about sexual assaults, giving names and addresses of those involved, but, in almost all cases, no action was taken. Now, a bombshell report suggests Greater Manchester Police and the city council shelved an investigation into what was happening at least partially because of the “many sensitive community issues” they felt faced with. “Concerns were expressed about the risk of proactive tactics or the incitement of racial hatred,” the 145-page independent review states. And it adds: “The authorities knew that many [victims] were being subjected to the most profound abuse and exploitation but did not protect them from the perpetrators. This is a depressingly familiar picture and has been seen in many other towns and cities across the country.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 23 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: You could equally be talking about Yewtree cases, or the Catholic church there though. The other thing these have in common is that it happens where a set of people consolidate power and exploit the vulnerable. You should read the academic paper - it's really interesting. It seems to be written from an extreme left-wing view - continuously blaming right-wingers for inciting hatred towards all Muslims, and seemingly tries to convince the reader not to call them "Muslim grooming gangs", and at one point even saying we shouldn't call them "grooming gangs" as this instantly results in "racialised frime" and "racialised panic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 3 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: I'm not engaging with this debate any more as the topic seems to be under siege from the right wingers Can the right wingers stop posting war rhetoric like topics being 'under siege'. It isn't helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Failings at every level and continuing to this day. There is no excuse for not investigating crimes especially when you know who both the victims and the perpetrators are. Regardless of who is committing these crimes and why looking the other way was gross negligence. Dancing around the definition of the crime or whether or not to call them grooming gangs is putting political correctness before the safety of children. Its hard enough to uncover victims of child abuse when its done by family members but in cases such as this when victims and abusers are widely known continuing to look the other way through fear of 'sensitive community issues' is almost as bad as the crime itself imo. As part of a wider scheme to include child abuse by family members/friends etc I'd have informational videos played in schools, similar to the ones I used to see as a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 25 minutes ago, Norman said: Can the right wingers stop posting war rhetoric like topics being 'under siege'. It isn't helpful. Norman man! You edited the quote and ruined my little joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Norman man! You edited the quote and ruined my little joke! I was going to make a joke about that, but thought better of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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