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The Politics Thread 2020


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3 hours ago, Uptherams said:

Two clashing ideologies from conservatives coming forward here. So called ''free money'' benefits, welfare, etc, clashing with people are better at spending money and knowing what they need versus a central government. 

To me there is a severe lack of creative thinking. We have two major problems right now when it comes to the economy.

Number 1. People can't spend too much money because they either don't have it, are scared how long it will last.

Number 2. Businesses are struggling to receive orders, mostly because they are closed. 

For me the best two things that could happen right now and would help stimulate the economy and keep it chugging until we come out of this lock-down is a non means tested basic income. People can choose to spend it how they please as everyone has different wants and needs. 

The second thing we need to do now that people have an income, is to help them spend it. There are so many self employed and businesses that can't receive money right now because they are effectively closed. The most obvious way to circumnavigate this already exists. Gift cards. We have the technology to implement and scale a gift card scheme to all businesses. Hairdressers, local pubs, cafes, everyone in effect. They signup to a gift card app service, we the consumer signup to this app, search for the businesses we used before the lock-down and purchase a digital gift card. That business receives much needed cash now and customers can receive their product or service once we come out of lock-down.  

This is a much more efficient way of getting money to people and businesses asap. 

Fantastic idea

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1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

Yup, fair play @G STAR RAM - couple more like that and I might take you off 'Ignore' 😄

When you read the backlash on the way the government have handled this, and the real, harsh fact that people will likely die as a result it make you realise that we have given ourselves the leaders we deserved. For ten years the left have been utterly incapable of mounting not only an electionable challenge but, even more so, a group of leaders who can even rally against the will of the government. We have effectively been a one party state since the coalition finished and all parties should hang their heads in shame for what it has brought us. 

And this current shower is showing itself, by the hour, to not be a political party capable of leading a country through a crisis but instead of being a cabal of charlatans, sound bite merchants and - frankly - liars who have long since realised they will not get challenged for their mistruths. For a country like Italy to have got caught out like it did you can just about understand but for the likes of the US and the UK to follow the same mortality curve as those that have been before, to even exceed them in all likelihood, is an action that must - and will - be challenged once we are through the other side. 

In the meantime - buy the ducking ventilators, sort out the fricking PPE, get the testing kits in place, make it happen - no matter who you have to go to and beg.

If our figures are well out of sync with other countries then of course major questions will need to be asked.

I think its disingenuous saying lets ignore what has happened in Italy, after all they are maybe a week or so ahead of us on the curve.

We also dont appear to be any worse off yet than Spain and France. 

Trying to turn this into an attack on Johnson/Trump is wrong in my opinion.

I agree with you in get what we need at any cost but we also have to understand there will be numerous countries around the world with the same attitude. I mean US is even getting supplies from Russia, that should tell you how desperate the situation is!

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And Trump signed a lucrative deal with Walmart yesterday for PPE so it seems to be a global shortage. Maybe global complacency regarding this kind of thing will be a thing of the past, if it isn’t, we’ll have learned little from this current pandemic.

On a totally different note, can anyone shed any light on what Shammi Chakrachuffinbarti did to be made a Baroness ? 

Edited by Pearl Ram
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2 hours ago, Pearl Ram said:

And Trump signed a lucrative deal with Walmart yesterday for PPE so it seems to be a global shortage. Maybe global complacency regarding this kind of thing will be a thing of the past, if it isn’t, we’ll have learned little from this current pandemic.

On a totally different note, can anyone shed any light on what Shammi Chakrachuffinbarti did to be made a Baroness ? 

That's down to Cameron. Perhaps she had more pictures of him with that pigs head.....🤣

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1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

I very much doubt it but maybe the financial challenges we'll face when all this is over will prompt the cancelling, or at least postponement, of HS2.

Nah, we will bring the Chinese over to build it too 👀

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1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I very much doubt it but maybe the financial challenges we'll face when all this is over will prompt the cancelling, or at least postponement, of HS2.

It's not as if people aren't now getting used to group meetings online either. Do we really need to shave off minutes in rail time? Just look at how innovative small, medium and large businesses are becoming when called upon. I'd rather we set aside various grant schemes encouraging enterprise and innovation now instead. The yield from that is so much more higher than the supposed financial benefits of HS2. Resurface roads too and save 90 odd billion. 

I'd also much rather see foreign aid not only reduced, but spent almost entirely in this country. Businesses manufacturing equipment, etc, to be sent to places in crisis or need. 

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1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I very much doubt it but maybe the financial challenges we'll face when all this is over will prompt the cancelling, or at least postponement, of HS2.

Im very much in favour of HS2 but can see this gives the government a good excuse to shelve it. 

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6 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Im very much in favour of HS2 but can see this gives the government a good excuse to shelve it. 

Wait a few months and CV19 will have rewritten the manifesto just like it rewrote the budget within a week. Leveling up/extra police/HS2 will probably not happen. The 40 new (ish) hospitals will most probably survive given the focus on the NHS at the moment, Brexit will have to be done probably not this year. Taxes and austerity will be back with us to pay for all this. This is not about politics but the impact of the crisis we are currently in.

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2 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Wait a few months and CV19 will have rewritten the manifesto just like it rewrote the budget within a week. Leveling up/extra police/HS2 will probably not happen. The 40 new (ish) hospitals will most probably survive given the focus on the NHS at the moment, Brexit will have to be done probably not this year. Taxes and austerity will be back with us to pay for all this. This is not about politics but the impact of the crisis we are currently in.

Of cause it's about politics. Everything that's happening now is going to have political repercussions. Maybe not now but definitely once this crisis is over. It's why people are already trying to look for scapegoats, like the Chinese and the WHO.

Who else will we see added to the list before this crisis is over? The more scapegoats that can be added, the more that can be blamed, to hide the failings of our current leaders and their inability to adequately deal with this crisis.

As for how the country pays the debts it's incurred during this crisis? That's a tightrope this government will have to walk very carefully. If people think that they are being asked to pay more than their fair share of the bill. While having the perception that any austerity measures are having less of an impact on the more affluent. Then the government are possibly in for a very bumpy ride.

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Just now, Tamworthram said:

I just don’t see that the benefits justify the enormous expense, impact on the environment and people/businesses that the line will run though.

Im with you, i just have no idea what the benefit will be. I am hoping that the recent outbreak with remote working will demonstrate that someone getting on a train and travelling 100 miles every day to sit in an office in London is not really necessary.

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8 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Im with you, i just have no idea what the benefit will be. I am hoping that the recent outbreak with remote working will demonstrate that someone getting on a train and travelling 100 miles every day to sit in an office in London is not really necessary.

If people working remotely are just as 'productive' as working in an office, then this may just happen. I think that there is currently a lack of faith (from a majority of bosses?) in the workforce and so they're not trusted to do the work they're supposed to be doing when they're at home.

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29 minutes ago, 1967Ram said:

If people working remotely are just as 'productive' as working in an office, then this may just happen. I think that there is currently a lack of faith (from a majority of bosses?) in the workforce and so they're not trusted to do the work they're supposed to be doing when they're at home.

Think it might be more data protection than anything in most workplaces. 

Edited by Norman
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1 minute ago, Norman said:

Think it might be more data protection than anything in most workplaces. 

My experience, businesses use data protection when they want. They wouldn't be too worried about data protection if it enables them to do something. It's pretty poor, most companies' understanding and care about data protection

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24 minutes ago, 1967Ram said:

If people working remotely are just as 'productive' as working in an office, then this may just happen. I think that there is currently a lack of faith (from a majority of bosses?) in the workforce and so they're not trusted to do the work they're supposed to be doing when they're at home.

I’ve spent a lot of my recent career working from home (largely because my team was so widespread. Me in Birmingham, pretty much everyone else in London, Bristol, Edinburgh or Halifax). It can get lonely but, I used to compromise and go into the local office to work maybe once a week. 
 

I agree regarding trust. I can see that many bosses may not trust their staff (as much a symptom of their own failings). For me, as a change/project manager is was never going to be an issue as I’d always have deliverables and deadlines to hit. My daughter and son in law have just started working from home (my daughter was one of the “lucky” ones and given a laptop so, the main barrier in her office is technology) and, whilst I don’t think too much notice will be taken at the moment, they do have productivity targets to achieve that can still be measured.

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33 minutes ago, 1967Ram said:

If people working remotely are just as 'productive' as working in an office, then this may just happen. I think that there is currently a lack of faith (from a majority of bosses?) in the workforce and so they're not trusted to do the work they're supposed to be doing when they're at home.

I think a key point is the social benefits of working with others.

Yes, I can do the same work at home but running ideas past people, gaining their trust and buy-in, bonding etc is very hard to replicate remotely.

Sure, we should travel less for work, but being part of a team needs banter, needs debate, needs physical closeness.

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18 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

My experience, businesses use data protection when they want. They wouldn't be too worried about data protection if it enables them to do something. It's pretty poor, most companies' understanding and care about data protection

Not any more, too much risk now with GDPR. I guess there will always be a few examples but now GDPR is taking a grip, it's a fool who pushes the limits too much. 

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