The Politics Thread 2020

[Uptherams]

The government are fast learning that they should have issued the nation with a non means tested basic income. Will they change tack though. 

[Gritstone Ram]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

As you are probably aware, I was a Conservative voter at the last General Election but I've got to own up and admit I'm becoming increasingly annoyed with the daily bluster on the tv screens.

I'm genuinely interested in what the medical advisers have to say but the ******** coming from the daily representative from Cabinet roulette is getting on my tits now.

Now is not the time for Government spin.

I don't want to know about medical equipment and tests that are going to be available in weeks/months time, I want to know what was made available yesterday/today/tomorrow.

There are tens of thousands of NHS literally putting their lives on the line every day that they go in and carry out their minimum wage job.

The Government should be working 24 hours a day, 7 days a week until these heroes can go to work knowing they are properly protected.

I'm reaching the stage where I will be viewing any NHS staff death as being blood on the hands of the Government.

You actually watch that rubbish.

[GboroRam]

1 minute ago, Uptherams said:

The government are fast learning that they should have issued the nation with a non means tested basic income. Will they change tack though. 

Would love to see it. I can't imagine any Conservative government trying it though - far too radical for their blue rinse voter base.

[ariotofmyown]

8 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Would love to see it. I can't imagine any Conservative government trying it though - far too radical for their blue rinse voter base.

I don't think anything is off the table in the current climate.

Give everyone a decent amount of cash that will cover living costs. Increase taxes on those lucky enough to still be earning to a) offset some of the amount given and b) help pay for everyone else.

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

You actually watch that rubbish.

Not religiously but I do try and catch it to see what the medical experts are saying.

I'm actually finding myself trying to keep away from the media as I still dont know what to believe. 

Read something the other day about the most common symptoms of the virus and within an hour I was convincing myself that I had most of them. 

Beginning to think the best thing is to steer clear of the media right now.

[1of4]

54 minutes ago, ramit said:

USA keeping medical aid from reaching Cuba in time of crisis is despicable criminal behavior.

https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/cuba--new-us-interference-during-special-situation-by-covid19-20200401-0002.html

The Trump administration are making it difficult for parts of their own country to get the equipment needed to deal with the coronavirus, putting the lives of their own citizens at risk. So they won't be losing sleep about Cuba

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I don’t think they have. I understand the latest is that wearing masks might actually be the right thing to do as the virus may be able to travel further in the air than previously thought.

Wearing masks was always the right thing to do. The early guff about masks being unnecessary, just wash your hands, was the first piece of publicity spin.

[Gritstone Ram]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not religiously but I do try and catch it to see what the medical experts are saying.

I'm actually finding myself trying to keep away from the media as I still dont know what to believe. 

Read something the other day about the most common symptoms of the virus and within an hour I was convincing myself that I had most of them. 

Beginning to think the best thing is to steer clear of the media right now.

I’m steering clear of the media too. Some of the stuff is just scaremongering where as other stuff is good information. It is trying to work out which is which. I am a bit disappointed with the testing regime for NHS staff but I’m amazed that over 120000 tests have been done and only 25000 have been positive. Who is being tested at the moment? Is it all hospital admissions or are people turning up at the hospital for a test?

[maxjam]

Just now, Van Gritters said:

I’m steering clear of the media too. Some of the stuff is just scaremongering where as other stuff is good information. It is trying to work out which is which. I am a bit disappointed with the testing regime for NHS staff but I’m amazed that over 120000 tests have been done and only 25000 have been positive. Who is being tested at the moment? Is it all hospital admissions or are people turning up at the hospital for a test?

A fair few asymptomatic celebrities seem to have had them.

[ramit]

12 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

The Trump administration are making it difficult for parts of their own country to get the equipment needed to deal with the coronavirus, putting the lives of their own citizens at risk. So they won't be losing sleep about Cuba

Am not expecting them to, just reporting on what they are doing.  i fail to see the connection between blocking imperative medical equipment from entering Cuba during pandemic and their own domestic medical/political problems, Trump or no.

It's the same for Iran.  This is modern day siege warfare on innocent people, conducted by a rogue superpower calling itself civilized and exceptional and it is backed up by both our governments.  Exceptional cowardly cruelty i say.

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

I’m steering clear of the media too. Some of the stuff is just scaremongering where as other stuff is good information. It is trying to work out which is which. I am a bit disappointed with the testing regime for NHS staff but I’m amazed that over 120000 tests have been done and only 25000 have been positive. Who is being tested at the moment? Is it all hospital admissions or are people turning up at the hospital for a test?

I think that does go to show how much fear is being put into people if over 75% of people who believe they have got this virus actually havent.

From what I've read, yes, its only hospital admissions that have been tested so far.

[Uptherams]

32 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Would love to see it. I can't imagine any Conservative government trying it though - far too radical for their blue rinse voter base.

Two clashing ideologies from conservatives coming forward here. So called ''free money'' benefits, welfare, etc, clashing with people are better at spending money and knowing what they need versus a central government. 

To me there is a severe lack of creative thinking. We have two major problems right now when it comes to the economy.

Number 1. People can't spend too much money because they either don't have it, are scared how long it will last.

Number 2. Businesses are struggling to receive orders, mostly because they are closed. 

For me the best two things that could happen right now and would help stimulate the economy and keep it chugging until we come out of this lock-down is a non means tested basic income. People can choose to spend it how they please as everyone has different wants and needs. 

The second thing we need to do now that people have an income, is to help them spend it. There are so many self employed and businesses that can't receive money right now because they are effectively closed. The most obvious way to circumnavigate this already exists. Gift cards. We have the technology to implement and scale a gift card scheme to all businesses. Hairdressers, local pubs, cafes, everyone in effect. They signup to a gift card app service, we the consumer signup to this app, search for the businesses we used before the lock-down and purchase a digital gift card. That business receives much needed cash now and customers can receive their product or service once we come out of lock-down.  

This is a much more efficient way of getting money to people and businesses asap. 

[GboroRam]

6 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Two clashing ideologies from conservatives coming forward here. So called ''free money'' benefits, welfare, etc, clashing with people are better at spending money and knowing what they need versus a central government. 

To me there is a severe lack of creative thinking. We have two major problems right now when it comes to the economy.

Number 1. People can't spend too much money because they either don't have it, are scared how long it will last.

Number 2. Businesses are struggling to receive orders, mostly because they are closed. 

For me the best two things that could happen right now and would help stimulate the economy and keep it chugging until we come out of this lock-down is a non means tested basic income. People can choose to spend it how they please as everyone has different wants and needs. 

The second thing we need to do now that people have an income, is to help them spend it. There are so many self employed and businesses that can't receive money right now because they are effectively closed. The most obvious way to circumnavigate this already exists. Gift cards. We have the technology to implement and scale a gift card scheme to all businesses. Hairdressers, local pubs, cafes, everyone in effect. They signup to a gift card app service, we the consumer signup to this app, search for the businesses we used before the lock-down and purchase a digital gift card. That business receives much needed cash now and customers can receive their product or service once we come out of lock-down.  

This is a much more efficient way of getting money to people and businesses asap. 

Not sure why people would give their money if there's no sign of goods arriving. I know it makes sense as you need to support industry, but people would just wait until the lockdown has finished and get it. I think support to get industries digital, to enable them to sell their goods online would be more positive. Perhaps we could embrace the digital age and look to provide free broadband for every house - that sounds like it'd be really great to have right now.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

for me the problem is and has been for some time the quality of politicians on all sides that we seem to be infested with , as I’ve stated before we are being run in the main by I’m a celebrity wanna be s , is that as much our own faults as anything else? They say we get the politicians we deserve? Me I think boris is a clown but then would I trust Diane abbot to run a bath?     Would I fluck 

pour health service has been cut to the bone over many years and we are paying the price for that now and we can argue party politics on it but in the crisis and the lead up since dec/jan it’s not really party based but rather the poor poor quality of politicians we have.

for me, the rot really set in when you started getting the "career politicians" who seem to move - in different ways - through political jobs in the shadows into (their hoped for) positions in governments.

Same left and right......the same criticisms apply whether its a labour apparatchik moving up through Union sponsored research posts, or Conservatives reading PPE or whatever at Oxbridge and then as "parliamentary aides".

They spend all their time learning "the dark arts" rather than gaining real world experience that helps them relate to the concerns of the great majority of us. Corbyn is as far out of touch as Johnson - just in a different direction!

[Uptherams]

13 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Not sure why people would give their money if there's no sign of goods arriving. I know it makes sense as you need to support industry, but people would just wait until the lockdown has finished and get it. I think support to get industries digital, to enable them to sell their goods online would be more positive. Perhaps we could embrace the digital age and look to provide free broadband for every house - that sounds like it'd be really great to have right now.

It's technically not their money, hence the basic income. But it is up to them to decide how and where they spend it. I wouldn't expect people to spend £1000 on MacDonald's in advance. However a hairdresser receiving £10 off customers or a cafe £5 and so on will make a huge difference to businesses. The only other person I have seen float this idea is the director Edgar Wright, his was specifically for the film industry and cinemas. People wouldn't just wait to spend it. Some would, but it's by far the most effective way of getting money to people and businesses asap. 

Sorry but free broadband for every house and ideas such as that have absolutely nothing to do with the current issue. 

[GboroRam]

15 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

It's technically not their money, hence the basic income. But it is up to them to decide how and where they spend it. I wouldn't expect people to spend £1000 on MacDonald's in advance. However a hairdresser receiving £10 off customers or a cafe £5 and so on will make a huge difference to businesses. The only other person I have seen float this idea is the director Edgar Wright, his was specifically for the film industry and cinemas. People wouldn't just wait to spend it. Some would, but it's by far the most effective way of getting money to people and businesses asap. 

Sorry but free broadband for every house and ideas such as that have absolutely nothing to do with the current issue. 

I don't agree. You're asking people to pay for jam tomorrow. Most people will pay for jam tomorrow, tomorrow.

Digital innovation, getting the nation infrastructure to enable all businesses to be accessed online, is ideal in the current environment.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Wearing masks was always the right thing to do. The early guff about masks being unnecessary, just wash your hands, was the first piece of publicity spin.

By the WHO?

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Not sure why people would give their money if there's no sign of goods arriving. I know it makes sense as you need to support industry, but people would just wait until the lockdown has finished and get it. I think support to get industries digital, to enable them to sell their goods online would be more positive. Perhaps we could embrace the digital age and look to provide free broadband for every house - that sounds like it'd be really great to have right now.

Not sure how free broadband does anything to help the current situation?

Had it not been in Labours last manifesto is it something that you would be suggesting right now?

[GboroRam]

17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure how free broadband does anything to help the current situation?

Had it not been in Labours last manifesto is it something that you would be suggesting right now?

It wouldn't have entered my head. But championing digital transactions was promoted for other reasons, pandemic is just an extra benefit nobody thought of. 

[BaaLocks]

5 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Great post and fair play for posting it.

<snip>

Could be worse though, we could have had Trump in for the last 3 years.

Yup, fair play @G STAR RAM - couple more like that and I might take you off 'Ignore' ?

When you read the backlash on the way the government have handled this, and the real, harsh fact that people will likely die as a result it make you realise that we have given ourselves the leaders we deserved. For ten years the left have been utterly incapable of mounting not only an electionable challenge but, even more so, a group of leaders who can even rally against the will of the government. We have effectively been a one party state since the coalition finished and all parties should hang their heads in shame for what it has brought us. 

And this current shower is showing itself, by the hour, to not be a political party capable of leading a country through a crisis but instead of being a cabal of charlatans, sound bite merchants and - frankly - liars who have long since realised they will not get challenged for their mistruths. For a country like Italy to have got caught out like it did you can just about understand but for the likes of the US and the UK to follow the same mortality curve as those that have been before, to even exceed them in all likelihood, is an action that must - and will - be challenged once we are through the other side. 

In the meantime - buy the ducking ventilators, sort out the fricking PPE, get the testing kits in place, make it happen - no matter who you have to go to and beg.