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The Politics Thread 2020


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30 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

You a union member? That'd be a good start

That's right. Go on strike. That'll show 'em 😉

I'm not sure where the whole "choice" thing comes in. For the vast majority, the reality will be that if they don't accept, the company will have no option but to let them go - which is the whole point of it in the first place. That's the situation where I work.

80% of something is a lot better than 100% of nothing. Surely even the unions have to realise this?

 

Edited by Van Wolfie
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7 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

That's right. Go on strike. That'll show 'em 😉

I'm not sure where the whole "choice" thing comes in. For the vast majority, the reality will be that if they don't accept, the company will have no option but to let them go - which is the whole point of it in the first place. That's the situation where I work.

80% of something is a lot better than 100% of nothing. Surely even the unions have to realise this?

 

Haha - yeah I wasn't suggesting industrial action. More just that unions would be able to tell you where you stand and what your rights are

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19 minutes ago, ketteringram said:

No. No one at work is. I've worked 40 years in manufacturing, and have never worked anywhere where there was union membership. Not knowingly anyway!

I would suggest that you marry an employment lawyer. Companies will try it on in a crisis and leave you to sort it out on your own afterwards.

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How about this one and it's 100% genuine as I've just been told first hand.

An associate and his colleague have just been put on a 3 day week (at 60% of full pay), while all the other staff in the company have been furloughed on 80% pay.

I've told him to speak to an employment lawyer, but I don't think he will?

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1 hour ago, ketteringram said:

Quick question if I may.

As an employer, when you put people on furlough, were they given an option to accept or not? 

The reason I'm asking, is that we were basically sent home , and told we were being furloughed. By the time I got home, I'd received an email explaining it a bit more, and it also said , something like...we hope you accept this. The alternative is voluntary redundancy, and failing that , compulsory redundancy.

But this was from a , do not reply, email address. No further mention was made of accepting it or not. 

There is now no one at work. Manufacturer, about 520 employees.

I strongly believe that the employee does have to agree. However, what is the alternative if the company doesn’t have enough work and can’t afford to pay you? Possibly being laid off? Meaning you’d then be unemployed resulting in, presumably, less than 80% of your previous wage and having to find a new job either now or when it’s all over.

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12 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

I didn't say that all companies will try it on. Please read the post.

Thanks for the advice, I did read the post.
 

He said Companies will try it on. This, I believe, in most people’s minds, could easily be interpreted as all companies. I was trying to add a bit of balance.

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6 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I strongly believe that the employee does have to agree. However, what is the alternative if the company doesn’t have enough work and can’t afford to pay you? Possibly being laid off? Meaning you’d then be unemployed resulting in, presumably, less than 80% of your previous wage and having to find a new job either now or when it’s all over.

I've no problems agreeing to it. Purely from a personal point of view, I'd be delighted to stay on it forever. That would also be true if it was 50%.

The question was more about how anyone is meant to agree or disagree with it. It's not like we were given a form to sign, or an email you could respond to.

If @Angry Ram has employees, I was wondering how he handled it.

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Just now, ketteringram said:

I've no problems agreeing to it. Purely from a personal point of view, I'd be delighted to stay on it forever. That would also be true if it was 50%.

The question was more about how anyone is meant to agree or disagree with it. It's not like we were given a form to sign, or an email you could respond to.

If @Angry Ram has employees, I was wondering how he handled it.

I guess it is a bit of a take or leave it for most employees. However, there could be others that may be able to have a conversation with their employee to see if there is a way that they could stay working. 
 

In terms of how you agree or disagree, I guess every company is different but there must, I assume, be a way to contact your HR (or whoever is dealing with it depending on the size of the company). It sounds like they’re treating it as a presumed acceptance. Ideally, I guess, they should have provided some of questions and answers but they were probably wary of people declining the offer. 

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The next few days will be interesting (sobering) in respect of the 5 o’clock updates. The Government I think needs to be much more open regarding the issues that have been, and continue to be, encountered.  Testing is key, but we look like we way behind the curve, and not getting close to addressing the critical need:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52118781?at_custom3=%40BBCPolitics&at_custom1=[post+type]&at_custom2=twitter&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&at_custom4=twitter

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4 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Fair play to you. Good to hear.

My daughter in law has received an email yesterday that she's no longer a member of the work pension scheme. She's 8 and a half months pregnant and on maternity leave. We have no idea what this means - I guess she could be furloughed, but I think more likely the company has just cancelled everyone's contracts and kicked them out of work. Hopefully employment law will kick in as, due to the maternity situation, they should be in big trouble. Sounds like everyone has had their jobs terminated.

If she is still employed, it's her legal right to be part of the company pension scheme.

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2 hours ago, ketteringram said:

Quick question if I may.

As an employer, when you put people on furlough, were they given an option to accept or not? 

The reason I'm asking, is that we were basically sent home , and told we were being furloughed. By the time I got home, I'd received an email explaining it a bit more, and it also said , something like...we hope you accept this. The alternative is voluntary redundancy, and failing that , compulsory redundancy.

But this was from a , do not reply, email address. No further mention was made of accepting it or not. 

There is now no one at work. Manufacturer, about 520 employees.

Yes, in essence it is a contract change and both need to negotiate. I can't see you have much choice but to accept in the long run as the company will spin it as a reescue package. Be careful with the redundancy, you make a position redundant not the person.

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1 minute ago, Angry Ram said:

If she is still employed, it's her legal right to be part of the company pension scheme.

I suspect she isn't. Great company, the notice you receive that you've been made redundant is an email from your pension provider saying you are no longer paying in, and the first possible reason on the list is you've been made unemployed. Perfect when you've got 2 weeks till your due date. 

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3 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I suspect she isn't. Great company, the notice you receive that you've been made redundant is an email from your pension provider saying you are no longer paying in, and the first possible reason on the list is you've been made unemployed. Perfect when you've got 2 weeks till your due date. 

Even in a redundancy situation there is still a process they have to follow and that involves consultation. Employers can use this as a reson to cull. Sounds double dodgy. 

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