Chester40 Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 8 hours ago, Eddie said: Oh, there will be some prepared to defend him. I will defend him..in so much as I would any of the other reckless high profile individuals who have fallen on their swords recently to appease the masses. The analogy I ofteb use is driving. A lot of people drive.. And speed. I mean...a hell of a lot. Its slightly risky and can be very dangerous but still a high proportion do it because 99% of the time its a victimless crime. They get caught, get a bit of a fine and nobody blinks. Drink driving is a totally different (yet not that different) crime. Its more dangerous and so the social ramifications are larger. Most people agree you could easily lose your job over it...but not so for speeding. What he (they) did for me, was more akin to speeding than drink driving. They didn't knowingly have Covid and walk into hospital ICU wards shaking hands (although Boris could well have to be fair!). They took a tiny risk and got caught. Unlucky but I don't really feel the need to bay for blood. To continue the analogy, maybe a policeman, taxi driver or chauffer could maybe lose their job just for speeding, so losing his/their job maybe goes with the territory and they should have known better...just isn't something that really incenses me either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, Chester40 said: I will defend him..in so much as I would any of the other reckless high profile individuals who have fallen on their swords recently to appease the masses. The analogy I ofteb use is driving. A lot of people drive.. And speed. I mean...a hell of a lot. Its slightly risky and can be very dangerous but still a high proportion do it because 99% of the time its a victimless crime. They get caught, get a bit of a fine and nobody blinks. Drink driving is a totally different (yet not that different) crime. Its more dangerous and so the social ramifications are larger. Most people agree you could easily lose your job over it...but not so for speeding. What he (they) did for me, was more akin to speeding than drink driving. They didn't knowingly have Covid and walk into hospital ICU wards shaking hands (although Boris could well have to be fair!). They took a tiny risk and got caught. Unlucky but I don't really feel the need to bay for blood. To continue the analogy, maybe a policeman, taxi driver or chauffer could maybe lose their job just for speeding, so losing his/their job maybe goes with the territory and they should have known better...just isn't something that really incenses me either way. Same here but it's the message that it sends out to the general public. Now I know most will just say he's an idiot and whatever else but there will be plenty who will use this as a case to defend their own idiotic behaviour too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, Chester40 said: What he (they) did for me, was more akin to speeding than drink driving. They didn't knowingly have Covid and walk into hospital ICU wards shaking hands (although Boris could well have to be fair!). They took a tiny risk and got caught. Unlucky but I don't really feel the need to bay for blood. I'm not sure you have the timeline of events quite right there. Johnson and Hancock tested positive, Cummings and his wife both developed symptoms. They then went to Durham so parents could look after their son. Travelling that far was in total breach of the lockdown rules. Other high profile figures have resigned for travelling to 2nd homes/meeting lovers when no one had symptoms. These travelling breaches seem more like your speeding analogy to me. However, the idea of taking your child to your parents house and all staying there seems just mindblowing. Most people in the UK haven't seen older relatives for weeks, and wouldn't dare either as the idea of passing on the virus would be hideous. There have being moving stories on here of people seeing elderly parents from a few metres back. And the idea of staying with older relatives when you colleagues have tested positive, and you and wife have symptoms, and you want them to look after your child? It's almost like you are trying to infect your parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Archied said: Why the reference to vote leave? It just makes you look like you have a bias when the truth is he should be sacked on the spot for his behaviour regards ignoring lockdown Vote Leave has was dogged with accusations of rule breaking and dodgy activity. There have been loads of examples of Johnson's regime doing dodgy things and caring little for rules or conventions. Cummings has been in command of both of these controversial processes, and now we have complete proof of what sort of character he really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretsquirrel Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 They are now saying it was his sister looking after the children not his parents.Who knows what the real story is the spin will be in full force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I'm not sure you have the timeline of events quite right there. Johnson and Hancock tested positive, Cummings and his wife both developed symptoms. They then went to Durham so parents could look after their son. Travelling that far was in total breach of the lockdown rules. Other high profile figures have resigned for travelling to 2nd homes/meeting lovers when no one had symptoms. These travelling breaches seem more like your speeding analogy to me. However, the idea of taking your child to your parents house and all staying there seems just mindblowing. Most people in the UK haven't seen older relatives for weeks, and wouldn't dare either as the idea of passing on the virus would be hideous. There have being moving stories on here of people seeing elderly parents from a few metres back. And the idea of staying with older relatives when you colleagues have tested positive, and you and wife have symptoms, and you want them to look after your child? It's almost like you are trying to infect your parents. Hmmmm you are right, that is bad.?? I agree...his case is a bit worse and the analogy holds for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 46 minutes ago, Chester40 said: I will defend him..in so much as I would any of the other reckless high profile individuals who have fallen on their swords recently to appease the masses. The analogy I ofteb use is driving. A lot of people drive.. And speed. I mean...a hell of a lot. Its slightly risky and can be very dangerous but still a high proportion do it because 99% of the time its a victimless crime. They get caught, get a bit of a fine and nobody blinks. Drink driving is a totally different (yet not that different) crime. Its more dangerous and so the social ramifications are larger. Most people agree you could easily lose your job over it...but not so for speeding. What he (they) did for me, was more akin to speeding than drink driving. They didn't knowingly have Covid and walk into hospital ICU wards shaking hands (although Boris could well have to be fair!). They took a tiny risk and got caught. Unlucky but I don't really feel the need to bay for blood. To continue the analogy, maybe a policeman, taxi driver or chauffer could maybe lose their job just for speeding, so losing his/their job maybe goes with the territory and they should have known better...just isn't something that really incenses me either way. I guess where I am with cases like this is that there's a danger in expecting people in the public eye to be perfect. Every time we clamour for a politician or other public servant to resign or be sacked we should remember the impact of losing our jobs would have. There is always in these cases the likelihood we will get someone less talented to replace them. Finally, he did not flout the law for self-gratification like others have. In cooperation with the grandparents he tried to do what was best for his family. Now I'm not a huge fan of his but I think an apology would be sufficient. And I'm always inclined to recommend the opposite of anything Ian Blackford says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 9 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: I don't actually think there will be this time @Eddie. It's pretty much indefensible. If it turns out that Johnson knew what Cummings had done, should he walk too though? I really hope that is the case (at least as far as Cummings is concerned) - it is hypocrisy of the highest order, especially when Neil Ferguson resigned for a similar, but far lesser, transgression (and in that case, it was splashed all over the front pages of all the newspapers, together with lurid details of his 'love tryst'). To tell the truth, I don't really know whether or not Johnson should walk (he won't) - because any potential replacement from the Tory cabinet fills me with dread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, Anag Ram said: I guess where I am with cases like this is that there's a danger in expecting people in the public eye to be perfect. Every time we clamour for a politician or other public servant to resign or be sacked we should remember the impact of losing our jobs would have. There is always in these cases the likelihood we will get someone less talented to replace them. Finally, he did not flout the law for self-gratification like others have. In cooperation with the grandparents he tried to do what was best for his family. Now I'm not a huge fan of his but I think an apology would be sufficient. And I'm always inclined to recommend the opposite of anything Ian Blackford says. I'm not worried about Cummings losing his job. His writing and policy consultancy services would do him fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 32 minutes ago, Anag Ram said: In cooperation with the grandparents he tried to do what was best for his family. Would anyone on here drive 200 plus miles to stay with older parents and get a family member to look after your kid if you and your partner almost certainly had coronovirus virus? What was our esteemed governments advice in this situation to families who found themselves in this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 4 hours ago, Archied said: Why the reference to vote leave? "Anti-lockdown protesters have argued that it is anti-American for the government to curtail people’s freedoms in order to reduce deaths as a result of Covid-19. Meanwhile, store owners tell customers what they can and cannot wear before entering, and customers cough in the faces of workers in the name of freedom." I suppose the British negotiators wil have to take off their masks if they are to secure a beautiful trade deal with Trump that will save us from the EU. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/22/us-stores-against-face-masks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 41 minutes ago, Anag Ram said: I guess where I am with cases like this is that there's a danger in expecting people in the public eye to be perfect. Every time we clamour for a politician or other public servant to resign or be sacked we should remember the impact of losing our jobs would have. There is always in these cases the likelihood we will get someone less talented to replace them. Finally, he did not flout the law for self-gratification like others have. In cooperation with the grandparents he tried to do what was best for his family. Now I'm not a huge fan of his but I think an apology would be sufficient. And I'm always inclined to recommend the opposite of anything Ian Blackford says. I don’t expect anyone to be perfect. If he was caught using his mobile phone whilst driving then I wouldn’t expect him to resign. There are numerous other imperfections (legal or moral) which wouldn’t justify him leaving but, to knowingly ignore lockdown restrictions at a time of national crisis feels somewhat serious to me. On the other hand, we shouldn’t be using this as an excuse just to get rid of a largely unpopular individual. The acid tests are, would we expect a lower profile, less divisive individual in his position to fall on their sword and, would a member of the general public be criticised (and possibly fined) for doing the same thing (albeit it was for the care of his children). For me, I’m thinking the answer to both is probably yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Playing devil’s advocate here. What could they have done ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Curtains said: Playing devil’s advocate here. What could they have done ! Not driven 200 miles to stay with elderly parents for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 The next "special" policy advisor for BJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 27 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Bit harsh @Eddie, @Chester40 wasn't fully aware of the latest facts. No doubt they will keep on changing. Not sure anyone knows the facts, just things that they have read in the media, and the media they choose is most likely to support their political leanings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, Curtains said: Playing devil’s advocate here. What could they have done ! Wore a Disguise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, Curtains said: No 10 denied Mr Cummings or his family were spoken to the police about the matter, after police confirmed they did attended a property in County Durham but did not name who they spoke to. Kudos to the Durham police for not covering it up. When are they going to get a new Chief Constable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 This cracked me up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 If Dominic Cummings has acted legally, I imagine there will be quite a few people out there expecting to have fines revoked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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