Cocu In

[S8TY]

18 hours ago, BondJovi said:

His late start to the season and poor pre season would take some time to recover from. The Joiners saga could easily have ruined the entire season. The large number of injuries at once. Our two main signings of the summer,Dowell was crap and Bielik is out for the season having barely been fit. And now the EFL charge. 

Rooney has clearly been a big lift, but you can't deny that Cocu has had a real rough hand dealt so far this season and none of that is of his doing. He has handled all of it with class and integrity and should have our full support. You wouldn't blame him for making an exit but he has got stuck in and is hopefully riding out the storm.

Agree...also if Cocu rides this out and is successful he would've been on the journey with all of us...with the really down days and times when it seems it could not get any worse and yet he maintains a high standard of manners and dignity.

I don't think I've ever heard him publicly criticise without a solution...I can't help but like the man.....I would also like any fans on here to stop saying Coco rather than Cocu as i think this is disrespectful and even if he wasn't successful here he really does not deserve any disrespect from us fans.

Will be great to be singing his name one day soon, he is our first foreign manager and to move to a different country and settle in whilst being involved in what looks like a mess at DCFC is difficult I can only imagine ,  whether he succeeds or not he is doing it with class and dignity....top bloke!!

[Mafiabob]

Still in..... I hope there’s been some minds changed..... it’s ok to do so at any point

[Cam the Ram]

38 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Still in..... I hope there’s been some minds changed..... it’s ok to do so at any point

Changed my mind about wanting him gone 4 or 5 weeks ago during that good run of form, but mainly because I thought it'd got to the point where there wasn't much left to play for in terms of promotion or relegation and so there wouldn't be any point sacking him. I'm very happy to see how much we've improved recently and Cocu deserves the chance to bring in his own signings to see how far he can take us, but I don't share the same level of confidence in him as most others do unfortunately. 

[Mafiabob]

20 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

Changed my mind about wanting him gone 4 or 5 weeks ago during that good run of form, but mainly because I thought it'd got to the point where there wasn't much left to play for in terms of promotion or relegation and so there wouldn't be any point sacking him. I'm very happy to see how much we've improved recently and Cocu deserves the chance to bring in his own signings to see how far he can take us, but I don't share the same level of confidence in him as most others do unfortunately. 

Last line - who would be better

[Cam the Ram]

17 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Last line - who would be better

I don't have a clue. It often doesn't matter how good a manager has done in his recent jobs and rather how they fit in at their new club. I was wanting Pearson ever since he left Leicester and then he was a disaster at us. I was sure McClaren was an awful appointment and he gave me one of my favourite seasons in recent memory.

[Millenniumram]

Definitely in after the recent run of results, and most importantly, performances. He’s 100% turned my view around on him as a coach. Before Christmas, I couldn’t see any evidence that suggested to me that he was going to be a success here. But there’s been a real significant upturn in the way we’re playing - our passing out the back has improved immeasurably when we have the right personnel on the pitch, and our movement and linkup play has been significantly more threatening up front too. All of that, coupled with a much stronger midfield with Rooney in there, has finally allowed us to see evidence of Cocus vision and coaching quality imo. The improvement in certain players like Lawrence is plain to see. 

Obviously theres still a lot more work to be done in terms of getting the right players in, but given the nightmare situation he’s found himself in, Cocu is doing a very decent job so far. Just wish sometimes he’d be a little braver with his mentality, but perhaps that’ll come when he has players at the back who he trusts. That and the away performances have been my main concerns, particularly our lack of attacking threat at times - but hopefully yesterday is the start of things changing in those respects. I hope so. What certainly isn’t in doubt now is his quality as a coach, and he has my backing to be a success here in the long term 100%.

[Wolfie20]

My concern regarding your first paragraph is that your opinion of Cocu has changed on the back of recent results and performances. What happens if he sends out similar teams in the next matches and we lose 3 on the bounce - will your opinion change once again?

I hope the vast majority of fans take the longer view and can see what he's trying to do. He has started to put in the building blocks for the next 3-4 years and it wouldn't surprise me if 4 or 5 of yesterdays squad don't feature in his plans for next season. 

[Derby blood]

22 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Definitely in after the recent run of results, and most importantly, performances. He’s 100% turned my view around on him as a coach. Before Christmas, I couldn’t see any evidence that suggested to me that he was going to be a success here. But there’s been a real significant upturn in the way we’re playing - our passing out the back has improved immeasurably when we have the right personnel on the pitch, and our movement and linkup play has been significantly more threatening up front too. All of that, coupled with a much stronger midfield with Rooney in there, has finally allowed us to see evidence of Cocus vision and coaching quality imo. The improvement in certain players like Lawrence is plain to see. 

Obviously theres still a lot more work to be done in terms of getting the right players in, but given the nightmare situation he’s found himself in, Cocu is doing a very decent job so far. Just wish sometimes he’d be a little braver with his mentality, but perhaps that’ll come when he has players at the back who he trusts. That and the away performances have been my main concerns, particularly our lack of attacking threat at times - but hopefully yesterday is the start of things changing in those respects. I hope so. What certainly isn’t in doubt now is his quality as a coach, and he has my backing to be a success here in the long term 100%.

Cocu, was always going to come good, but why do we judge managers after 3 or 4 months, anyone with a footballing brain, new he had a massive job on his hands, and next year u will see the real Cocu team, love the way he has got us playing football, love the fact Wayne Rooney is playing for us, love the fact he gives young players a chance, Bird, Knight, and Whitmore all getting into the squad and team, the future is looking alot brighter and I for one have always been behind Cocu, as a club we need a manager for the long term, to develop our young players, and to play football in the right way, by that I mean a team who passes and moves and plays a entertaining way, Cocu has all the qualities to take Derby to the next level by this I mean the Premier league, it might be next year or the year after, but it will happen. 

[Millenniumram]

44 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

My concern regarding your first paragraph is that your opinion of Cocu has changed on the back of recent results and performances. What happens if he sends out similar teams in the next matches and we lose 3 on the bounce - will your opinion change once again?

I hope the vast majority of fans take the longer view and can see what he's trying to do. He has started to put in the building blocks for the next 3-4 years and it wouldn't surprise me if 4 or 5 of yesterdays squad don't feature in his plans for next season. 

My opinion hasn’t just changed on the back of 3 games, it’s changed on the back of performances since the new year as a whole - even in defeat we’ve looked much better. We’ve pretty much always put up a fight, which is what we want to see as fans. We’ve not just been collapsing like we were before Christmas, it’s really just been stupid mistakes which have cost us. Which is ok, we haven’t got the defence we want yet. A few games isn’t enough to change an opinion on a manager imo, one way or another. It’s the sustained improvement that has changed my view, and provided we don’t have a sustained decline in performance level again over a longer period of time, than Cocu will retain my support.

I agree we have to take a long term view. With everything that’s happened this season, so long as we don’t get relegated (which is surely unlikely now), I think Cocu has done a decent job and deserves our support until he can build a team over the next couple of years to push for promotion. For me, he’s got a 4 year contract, and he needs to deliver promotion in that time. But it might take the full length, and that’s ok, so long as there’s improvement each year. 

FWIW on your last point, I was told under good authority that Cocu has been “regularly playing” 5 players who he didn’t consider in his plans at the start of this season, yet alone next season. So you’re spot on there. Was told two were centre backs (Wisdom and Davies one would think), but didn’t get any names. You’d think Wisdom has won him over with recent performances.

[Millenniumram]

30 minutes ago, Derby blood said:

Cocu, was always going to come good, but why do we judge managers after 3 or 4 months, anyone with a footballing brain, new he had a massive job on his hands, and next year u will see the real Cocu team, love the way he has got us playing football, love the fact Wayne Rooney is playing for us, love the fact he gives young players a chance, Bird, Knight, and Whitmore all getting into the squad and team, the future is looking alot brighter and I for one have always been behind Cocu, as a club we need a manager for the long term, to develop our young players, and to play football in the right way, by that I mean a team who passes and moves and plays a entertaining way, Cocu has all the qualities to take Derby to the next level by this I mean the Premier league, it might be next year or the year after, but it will happen. 

Admire your constant optimism!? Can’t quite hold that same view that he was always going to come good, but you definitely can’t argue that he hasn’t been bringing through the young lads, which is a big part of his remit. He’s brought Knight and Bird through, and they look top class prospects now. Hopefully he’s a success long term, he looks to be putting the right foundations in, that’s for sure.

[lagavulinram]

Never in doubt. Cocu in!

[Archied]

On 02/03/2020 at 00:44, Millenniumram said:

My opinion hasn’t just changed on the back of 3 games, it’s changed on the back of performances since the new year as a whole - even in defeat we’ve looked much better. We’ve pretty much always put up a fight, which is what we want to see as fans. We’ve not just been collapsing like we were before Christmas, it’s really just been stupid mistakes which have cost us. Which is ok, we haven’t got the defence we want yet. A few games isn’t enough to change an opinion on a manager imo, one way or another. It’s the sustained improvement that has changed my view, and provided we don’t have a sustained decline in performance level again over a longer period of time, than Cocu will retain my support.

I agree we have to take a long term view. With everything that’s happened this season, so long as we don’t get relegated (which is surely unlikely now), I think Cocu has done a decent job and deserves our support until he can build a team over the next couple of years to push for promotion. For me, he’s got a 4 year contract, and he needs to deliver promotion in that time. But it might take the full length, and that’s ok, so long as there’s improvement each year. 

FWIW on your last point, I was told under good authority that Cocu has been “regularly playing” 5 players who he didn’t consider in his plans at the start of this season, yet alone next season. So you’re spot on there. Was told two were centre backs (Wisdom and Davies one would think), but didn’t get any names. You’d think Wisdom has won him over with recent performances.

You see this is where I struggle with your contractions,, below your post re qpr just one game ago

Pretty poor performance across the 90 that. Not absolutely awful as some are saying on here - sadly we’ve seen much worse away from home this season, but still not particularly great. We had a couple of decent spells, especially at the start of the second half, but they were too few and far between. Main problem was the distribution out the back, which was by and large pretty crap. Davies, Hamer, Clarke, Shinnie etc were all far too slow and ponderous moving the ball around, and it made it far too easy for QPR to press us and force us long - inevitably resulting in us losing possession since Marriott couldn’t win a header to save his life. Midfield was also a bit nervy at times, Shinnie especially gave away the ball cheaply on a few occasions with poor control/ passing, allowing QPR to break. There were still some positives in our play up front mind, when we did get the ball up there we generally looked very threatening with our incisive passing and movement, and created a number of decent chances. We just weren’t clinical enough really in that respect. But the trouble is, we’re never gonna have success unless we get the ball up front more often than we did today - that was the biggest problem - and that will only come from playing out the back quicker and better than we did today. 

Ratings for me:

Hamer 6 - One good save, but his distribution was horrible

Wisdom 6 - Poor today, gave the ball away far too often, and was torn apart in defence. Improved a bit when he went to CB

Davies 7 - Passing wasn’t the best, but he remains the best option we have in terms of defending aerial threats

Clarke 6 - Not good enough today, passing was very slow and he ending up lumping it forward and conceding possession too often. Relatively solid at the back but we need more from a ball playing CB.

Lowe 7 - Kept his winger quiet and looked dangerous in the final third. Just didn’t get the ball too him enough 

Bird 7 - Another excellent game. Nice assist from the corner, and some wonderful vision with his first time passes. Could do with being a little stronger sometimes, but he looks almost too intelligent for most his teammates sometimes

Shinnie 6 - Poor today. Too slow on the ball, gave the ball away cheaply too often, and too many loose touches as well. A couple of good tackles in there, but needs to be better on the ball

Waghorn 7 - Wasteful in front of goal, but his general play was pretty good. Some intelligent runs and passes, and a good header to keep his goal tally up

Rooney 7 - Some worldie passes and touches as per, but gave the ball away a couple of times and his set pieces weren’t great either

Lawrence 7 - Worked hard and made some nice link up passes, but nothing really came off today

Marriott 6 - Ran around a bit in the press, but otherwise totally and utterly anonymous 

Subs:

Martin 6 - Somehow managed to be even less effective than Marriott. Impressive, in a bad way

Whittaker 6- Pick of the subs with the odd decent run/ pass

Bogle 6 - Looked nervous off the ball and had little effect on it

 

the more balanced amongst us see good performances consistently for a while and the line on getting a result has been very thin 

[Millenniumram]

2 minutes ago, Archied said:

You see this is where I struggle with your contractions,, below your post re qpr just one game ago

Pretty poor performance across the 90 that. Not absolutely awful as some are saying on here - sadly we’ve seen much worse away from home this season, but still not particularly great. We had a couple of decent spells, especially at the start of the second half, but they were too few and far between. Main problem was the distribution out the back, which was by and large pretty crap. Davies, Hamer, Clarke, Shinnie etc were all far too slow and ponderous moving the ball around, and it made it far too easy for QPR to press us and force us long - inevitably resulting in us losing possession since Marriott couldn’t win a header to save his life. Midfield was also a bit nervy at times, Shinnie especially gave away the ball cheaply on a few occasions with poor control/ passing, allowing QPR to break. There were still some positives in our play up front mind, when we did get the ball up there we generally looked very threatening with our incisive passing and movement, and created a number of decent chances. We just weren’t clinical enough really in that respect. But the trouble is, we’re never gonna have success unless we get the ball up front more often than we did today - that was the biggest problem - and that will only come from playing out the back quicker and better than we did today. 

Ratings for me:

Hamer 6 - One good save, but his distribution was horrible

Wisdom 6 - Poor today, gave the ball away far too often, and was torn apart in defence. Improved a bit when he went to CB

Davies 7 - Passing wasn’t the best, but he remains the best option we have in terms of defending aerial threats

Clarke 6 - Not good enough today, passing was very slow and he ending up lumping it forward and conceding possession too often. Relatively solid at the back but we need more from a ball playing CB.

Lowe 7 - Kept his winger quiet and looked dangerous in the final third. Just didn’t get the ball too him enough 

Bird 7 - Another excellent game. Nice assist from the corner, and some wonderful vision with his first time passes. Could do with being a little stronger sometimes, but he looks almost too intelligent for most his teammates sometimes

Shinnie 6 - Poor today. Too slow on the ball, gave the ball away cheaply too often, and too many loose touches as well. A couple of good tackles in there, but needs to be better on the ball

Waghorn 7 - Wasteful in front of goal, but his general play was pretty good. Some intelligent runs and passes, and a good header to keep his goal tally up

Rooney 7 - Some worldie passes and touches as per, but gave the ball away a couple of times and his set pieces weren’t great either

Lawrence 7 - Worked hard and made some nice link up passes, but nothing really came off today

Marriott 6 - Ran around a bit in the press, but otherwise totally and utterly anonymous 

Subs:

Martin 6 - Somehow managed to be even less effective than Marriott. Impressive, in a bad way

Whittaker 6- Pick of the subs with the odd decent run/ pass

Bogle 6 - Looked nervous off the ball and had little effect on it

So I’ve contradicted myself because I thought one performance wasn’t particularly great? To rate Cocu do I have to think every single game was sheer brilliance even in defeat? I didn’t think the QPR game was as awful as previous away games as I said. Just was a bit poor, which is surely why Cocu changed the team the next game to Great effect first half. Just because I criticise one performance doesn’t mean I don’t see the bigger picture.

[Archied]

1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

So I’ve contradicted myself because I thought one performance wasn’t particularly great? To rate Cocu do I have to think every single game was sheer brilliance even in defeat? I didn’t think the QPR game was as awful as previous away games as I said. Just was a bit poor, which is surely why Cocu changed the team the next game to Great effect first half. Just because I criticise one performance doesn’t mean I don’t see the bigger picture.

My your a slippery one?

[Millenniumram]

27 minutes ago, Archied said:

My your a slippery one?

Because I respond to bizzare quotes of my posts... righto

[Woodley Ram]

Never in doubt in my mind, we get bombarded with fast food and quick fix football. It has been proven that generally teams that build and have stability of staff, players and managers have the better chance of success. 
 

give him time and let him get the players to fit his system and then judge him

[tomsdubs]

Cocu inherited a bad situation, our best players were loans and he got no real pre-season. Before the booze up we were sitting just outside the playoffs which wasn't bad considering the squad. For me Cocu is a gradual build kind of guy which shows why he was more of a success at PSV than Fenerbahce where instant success is expected, he isn't the kind of manager that is about instant results but more a long term culture (as per Mel's vision). I think a lot of people's frustration this season is fuelled party by Florest going better but lets be honest they are overachieving and it's similar to a Billy Davies organised knicking results type game. That kind of thing has unfortunately not been successful or sustainable for us, changing managers and players that often is expensive and disruptive.

Take in to account other factors such as tighter finances than previous managers, Bielik out for the season and our best CB retiring himself, Shinnie was getting going before he got injured also. He's managed to bring back players people had written off and got them to perform in the absence of being able to shape his own squad. For me he's proved to be adaptable and handled the disruption well. We've already seen the calibre of player he wants to sign in te Wierik and I think next season we'll be up there challenging.

If it wasn't for the away form we'd be top 6 easily this season but you can understand why it's taken a while to get the performances, Cocu has expressed he wants the same philosophy home & away which requires the confidence/belief to pull it off. I hope we stick with him and let him keep developing the club, he's been brilliant bringing the youth through giving them a taste then managing their way in to the first team.

Keep the faith.

[BathRam72]

12 hours ago, Archied said:

You see this is where I struggle with your contractions,, below your post re qpr just one game ago

Pretty poor performance across the 90 that. Not absolutely awful as some are saying on here - sadly we’ve seen much worse away from home this season, but still not particularly great. We had a couple of decent spells, especially at the start of the second half, but they were too few and far between. Main problem was the distribution out the back, which was by and large pretty crap. Davies, Hamer, Clarke, Shinnie etc were all far too slow and ponderous moving the ball around, and it made it far too easy for QPR to press us and force us long - inevitably resulting in us losing possession since Marriott couldn’t win a header to save his life. Midfield was also a bit nervy at times, Shinnie especially gave away the ball cheaply on a few occasions with poor control/ passing, allowing QPR to break. There were still some positives in our play up front mind, when we did get the ball up there we generally looked very threatening with our incisive passing and movement, and created a number of decent chances. We just weren’t clinical enough really in that respect. But the trouble is, we’re never gonna have success unless we get the ball up front more often than we did today - that was the biggest problem - and that will only come from playing out the back quicker and better than we did today. 

Ratings for me:

Hamer 6 - One good save, but his distribution was horrible

Wisdom 6 - Poor today, gave the ball away far too often, and was torn apart in defence. Improved a bit when he went to CB

Davies 7 - Passing wasn’t the best, but he remains the best option we have in terms of defending aerial threats

Clarke 6 - Not good enough today, passing was very slow and he ending up lumping it forward and conceding possession too often. Relatively solid at the back but we need more from a ball playing CB.

Lowe 7 - Kept his winger quiet and looked dangerous in the final third. Just didn’t get the ball too him enough 

Bird 7 - Another excellent game. Nice assist from the corner, and some wonderful vision with his first time passes. Could do with being a little stronger sometimes, but he looks almost too intelligent for most his teammates sometimes

Shinnie 6 - Poor today. Too slow on the ball, gave the ball away cheaply too often, and too many loose touches as well. A couple of good tackles in there, but needs to be better on the ball

Waghorn 7 - Wasteful in front of goal, but his general play was pretty good. Some intelligent runs and passes, and a good header to keep his goal tally up

Rooney 7 - Some worldie passes and touches as per, but gave the ball away a couple of times and his set pieces weren’t great either

Lawrence 7 - Worked hard and made some nice link up passes, but nothing really came off today

Marriott 6 - Ran around a bit in the press, but otherwise totally and utterly anonymous 

Subs:

Martin 6 - Somehow managed to be even less effective than Marriott. Impressive, in a bad way

Whittaker 6- Pick of the subs with the odd decent run/ pass

Bogle 6 - Looked nervous off the ball and had little effect on it

 

the more balanced amongst us see good performances consistently for a while and the line on getting a result has been very thin 

The more balanced among us would argue that your scoring is way off the mark.

Bird 7 = Excellent.

Shinnie 6 = Poor.

Doesn't really leave much margin for average does it?

[Duracell]

@Millenniumram bet you weren't expecting someone to have a go at your mathematical sense of scale from a post in another thread a week ago when trying to show humility and that you've changed your mind on a topic about Cocu.

Life comes at you fast.

 

 

[Rev]

56 minutes ago, Duracell said:

@Millenniumram bet you weren't expecting someone to have a go at your mathematical sense of scale from a post in another thread a week ago when trying to show humility and that you've changed your mind on a topic about Cocu.

Life comes at you fast.

 

 

He's a maths student, so should know to always show his working out.