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New: Manager or not


RoyMac5

New: Manager or not  

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29 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

3 weeks ago we had 2 away games coming up against teams below us and arguably doing worse than us. 2 winnable games people said. But for a huge slice of luck we would’ve had 0 points and 0 goals from those 2 games. Ok we have 1 point out of 6 and 1 goal for and 4 against , from teams who have been routinely beaten by more than most this season.
 

So now we have 2 home games against very beatable opposition in Charlton and Barnsley. How will we do? What is acceptable? 3 points? 4 points? 6 points? Does performance matter? Should we see something different tried or is it shove Rooney on and hope? how should we judge it? 

True but Reading was distorted by playing with 10 men for 85 minutes. Whilst Boxing Day wasnt a good performance, it was at least admirable that we got off the canvas to equalise in injury time. 

Clearly we need to start picking up points but I'm not necessarily looking at games in isolation, including the next two. We are limping to January where fresh impetus is needed & which we'll get. I dont want to pin all hope on Rooney but as I've said elsewhere, his traits are exactly what this team needs right now & will improve our creative output massively.

The other big issue is at CB. There must be & will be an arrival in Jan. Once both happen, results and performances will pick up.

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9 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

Southampton are deeper in the doodoo than we are. Twelve months since the manager arrived (though they stayed up last season) they still are flirting with relegation. I will though concede their football is better than the tripe we are seeing.

I would rather give Coco a P45 than a transfer window.

I know they aren’t miles clear but it’s become very apparent they are going to survive this premier league season. 
Gave Villa and Chelsea a stuffing each on their own patches. 
Back to our situation, let’s see how this team performs come mid to large Jan when Cocu has signed some creativity in attack and has Rooney pulling the strings.

I expect a top 12 finish 

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26 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

You tell us buddy. A day or two ago you said the majority of us on here were totally deluded.  

I note you’re edit after I pointed out your mis-quote without you actually referencing it. And still you miss the point; if I recall my own words correctly I said “ anybody who thinks it’s going to change is deluded” which is different in tone and meaning to how you phrased it. I’m always up for legitimate and fair discussion but I won’t be drawn into tabloid-level gaming. 

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2 hours ago, GrimsbyRam said:

Easy to compare teams...however look at the team that Rowett got to and used in the Play off semi final:-

1 Carson

6 Keogh

33 Davies

3 Forsyth

14 Wisdom

44 Huddlestone

15 Johnson

8 Anya

10 Lawrence

19 Weimann

32 Jerome.

Can you honestly say that is that much different, quality wise, to what Cocu has at his disposal?  Waghorn, Martin and Marriott certainly comparable (if not better than ) with Weiman, Anya and Jerome.  He has Wisdom but chooses not to play him. He has spent £10 million on Bielek.  He allowed Carson to leave.  Even if people are a 'Cocu in' fans, it needs to be accepted that he is massively underachieving and is not getting the best out of the players.

We only used that specific line-up once and we lost 2-0 with only one shot on target, though

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17 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

You care enough do you. That means perhaps not renewing your season ticket (again) if it doesn’t get any better does it? You seem to like to sing when your winning, buddy.

Yes it does mean that. Sometimes withdrawing support is a way of supporting. I stopped going under Jewell. And I’m still not your buddy. 

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2 hours ago, GrimsbyRam said:

Easy to compare teams...however look at the team that Rowett got to and used in the Play off semi final:-

1 Carson

6 Keogh

33 Davies

3 Forsyth

14 Wisdom

44 Huddlestone

15 Johnson

8 Anya

10 Lawrence

19 Weimann

32 Jerome.

Can you honestly say that is that much different, quality wise, to what Cocu has at his disposal?  Waghorn, Martin and Marriott certainly comparable (if not better than ) with Weiman, Anya and Jerome.  He has Wisdom but chooses not to play him. He has spent £10 million on Bielek.  He allowed Carson to leave.  Even if people are a 'Cocu in' fans, it needs to be accepted that he is massively underachieving and is not getting the best out of the players.

That team got beat 2-0, quite convincingly as well if I remember rightly.

The defence was way ahead of what we have now, only Bogle would get in now. Jerome at that time is better than we have now, for some reason you have not picked the first leg where Vydra played ? who scored the majority of the goals that season.  Add in a bench that had Palmer,  Nugent, Pearce and Ledley in, and I'd say it's a struggle to fit many of our current crop above these.

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2 hours ago, GrimsbyRam said:

Easy to compare teams...however look at the team that Rowett got to and used in the Play off semi final:-

1 Carson
6 Keogh
33 Davies
3 Forsyth
14 Wisdom
44 Huddlestone
15 Johnson
8 Anya
10 Lawrence
19 Weimann
32 Jerome.

Can you honestly say that is that much different, quality wise, to what Cocu has at his disposal?  Waghorn, Martin and Marriott certainly comparable (if not better than ) with Weiman, Anya and Jerome.  He has Wisdom but chooses not to play him. He has spent £10 million on Bielek.  He allowed Carson to leave.  Even if people are a 'Cocu in' fans, it needs to be accepted that he is massively underachieving and is not getting the best out of the players.

What you've done there is named the team who started the 2nd leg, 2-0, toothless loss against Fulham where we chose not to play our 20+ goal striker, barely got out of our half, constantly chose the wrong ball given any chance to form a counter attack and were lucky to escape with just a 2-1 aggregate defeat.

If that's the team we'd have been using for the entire season I think we'd have been lucky to finish 12th.

The team/squad that got us most of our points that season also had Matej Vydra (obviously!), Joe Ledley, Johnny Russell, Sam Winnall, George Thorne, David Nugent, Chris Baird and latterly Kasey Palmer available at certain points.

Davies, Martin, Forsyth & Huddlestone are 2 years and some serious injuries / health problems later.

I'd say Rowett did have more quality than Cocu has at his disposal (although I can see the argument that thse players aren't necessarily world beaters themselves) but if not quality, certainly more numbers, experience and a better balance.

Rowett also had two full transfer windows to shape his squad, a full pre-season, yadda yadda....

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1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

We're 6 points off the bottom 3 with Rooney nearly eligible to play, some decent fixtures coming up and a transfer window about to open. I dont accept that we're in such dire situation that relegation to League One is likely. Frankly, its hysterical to suggest that is the case.

Gates will hold up, this is Derby...not Leeds or Forest or Sheff Weds. Only one crowd below 20k for League games in 22 years & the Rooney effect will see a boost in numbers.

Not hysterical at all. Our league position and recent form are dire and our manager seems unable to change anything. Its not like were playing well and losing. We are playing badly consistently and scoring very few goals.

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9 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

I note you’re edit after I pointed out your mis-quote without you actually referencing it. And still you miss the point; if I recall my own words correctly I said “ anybody who thinks it’s going to change is deluded” which is different in tone and meaning to how you phrased it. I’m always up for legitimate and fair discussion but I won’t be drawn into tabloid-level gaming. 

For the record my edit was simply to insert the word ‘said’ which I initially overlooked, not to alter something you pointed out. I am as disinterested in your pedantry as I am your pomposity. I have however much enjoyed our brief discourse, but l must now return to my Sun crossword. Have a good day Buddy.

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Just now, DRBee said:

Not hysterical at all. Our league position and recent form are dire and our manager seems unable to change anything. Its not like were playing well and losing. We are playing badly consistently and scoring very few goals.

But you're able to project a continued slide in form into the bottom 3 but not able to consider the potential positive moves that January will bring? That doesnt seem very balanced.

Dont disagree we're a mess at the minute, dont think anyone would disagree in fact.

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14 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

That team got beat 2-0, quite convincingly as well if I remember rightly.

The defence was way ahead of what we have now, only Bogle would get in now. Jerome at that time is better than we have now, for some reason you have not picked the first leg where Vydra played ? who scored the majority of the goals that season.  Add in a bench that had Palmer,  Nugent, Pearce and Ledley in, and I'd say it's a struggle to fit many of our current crop above these.

You honestly believe Jerome then is better than Martin, Waghorn or Marriott? 

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29 minutes ago, Coconut said:

What you've done there is named the team who started the 2nd leg, 2-0, toothless loss against Fulham where we chose not to play our 20+ goal striker, barely got out of our half, constantly chose the wrong ball given any chance to form a counter attack and were lucky to escape with just a 2-1 aggregate defeat.

If that's the team we'd have been using for the entire season I think we'd have been lucky to finish 12th.

The team/squad that got us most of our points that season also had Matej Vydra (obviously!), Joe Ledley, Johnny Russell, Sam Winnall, George Thorne, David Nugent, Chris Baird and latterly Kasey Palmer available at certain points.

Davies, Martin, Forsyth & Huddlestone are 2 years and some serious injuries / health problems later.

I'd say Rowett did have more quality than Cocu has at his disposal (although I can see the argument that thse players aren't necessarily world beaters themselves) but if not quality, certainly more numbers, experience and a better balance.

Rowett also had two full transfer windows to shape his squad, a full pre-season, yadda yadda....

I don't follow - 10 of the 11 played in the first leg that won the game.  Plus I just compared Rowett's last team to Lampard's last and Cocu's most recent (as per the previous poster).

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6 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

You honestly believe Jerome then is better than Martin, Waghorn or Marriott? 

As a team player yes, he had pace which meant the opposition couldn't push up as they do now. He also had movement that puts him above Martin for me at the moment, agreed technically no but he could play that role which none of our players can at the moment.

We haven't got a spine at the moment for me, we are not good enough to outplay footballing teams and we are not physical enough for the others. We are the Arsenal of the championship, no matter who was manager it wouldn't be much different imo.

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16 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

I don't follow - 10 of the 11 played in the first leg that won the game.  Plus I just compared Rowett's last team to Lampard's last and Cocu's most recent (as per the previous poster).

But the 11 you picked got battered over the two legs in all but the overall score. Wasn't that also the team that was second, challenging for automatic promotion and then we lost a couple of key players around Xmas that saw us go into a downward spiral where we only just managed to get into the play offs ?

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10 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

But the 11 you picked got battered over the two legs in all but the overall score. Wasn't that also the team that was second, challenging for automatic promotion and then we lost a couple of key players around Xmas that saw us go into a downward spiral where we only just managed to get into the play offs ?

But we finished in the playoffs with a very average squad as they played as a team and knew their roles.

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What happened in the past is irrelevant. Whether it was here or in Holland.

we have an opportunity to build a new young side based on a small group of academy players who have achieved great things at that level. We need to tighten up at the back and forge a new cutting edge. We have the advantage that the new core has played together for years. I would love this to be the foundation going forward. In the short term we can add Rooney and a few senior players into the mix, but ffs drop those players who have repeatedly failed to deliver and let’s move on. 

 

                   Roos

bogle.  Evans.  Bielik.   Lowe 

                  Bird

        Knight.    Sibley

new.        New.          New 

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9 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

But we finished in the playoffs with a very average squad as they played as a team and knew their roles.

It was a squad built to play Rowettball, that was effective until he had injuries and players leaving in key areas. Once that happened we went on a downward spiral where we only just scraped into the play offs and were convincingly beaten in them.

The team we have now has lost players in key areas and is struggling, same as GRs team did, as did Lampards and Macs, and that's not taking into account he hasn't even had a full transfer window yet to bring in his own players.

 

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