europia Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 I expect Philip will stay unless we drop into bottom 3. Then it will be all about how we start next season. If we get a bad start Mel will pull the trigger. It's the Derby way (these days) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, Justa said: Hummm so being 18th is better than being in the top 6 ?!?! And the footballs just as bad ! The football is absolutely toothless at the minute..I can't quite fathom how we have dialled the goals out of such,formerly, fantastic and prolific strikers of jack and Chrissie.... However,I hated the football of rowett in the the previous season with a passion. I can only hope,that with cocu's pedigree,he will somehow get the midfield in,that those two deserve(surely Rooney will be a massive part in that) and we become somewhere near as fluent as we were back in 2014/15,which was the epitome of the Derby football I crave. Please let January be the start of that return to the Derby way. And if not,we get in a manager who can save us from the ignominy of league 1 before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: So yet again he was worth a 4 year deal cos he was highly sort after - the original post set out to say we'd only get such a sort after manager if he was given a big deal. So I ask who and you say I'm being glib! Maybe you're making it up? Seem to remember there was talk of Everton but that was pre-Fenerbache? So your assertion is that he (comparatively) isn't highly regarded and he wasn't sought after by other clubs and in desperation he would have come on to Derby on a much shorter deal and Mel was a mug to think he did well to convince him to come? I believe the general reaction in football and in Derby fans in particular, was that it was a big coup. You maybe believe you could have convinced him to come to Derby on a two year deal and that you were doing him a favour at that. I can't confirm who wanted him, just like you don't know other clubs weren't approaching him and getting knocked back. I would say he was a massive name in football as a player - on a par with Lampard and far exceeding our other recent managers - and had success as a manager at a level exceeding any of our other recent managers. He came promising to build a whole club approach and infrastructure ...so to offer him a short term contract just wouldn't have convinced him to come in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, Justa said: Hummm so being 18th is better than being in the top 6 ?!?! And the footballs just as bad ! I think Cocu's football has the potential to get better...at least that's what I'm hoping. Rowett had a better squad in my opinion (even after he decided to sell the most talented player), so I don't think it's fair to simply draw definitive conclusions based on their respective league positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: The football is absolutely toothless at the minute..I can't quite fathom how we have dialled the goals out of such,formerly, fantastic and prolific strikers of jack and Chrissie.... However,I hated the football of rowett in the the previous season with a passion. I can only hope,that with cocu's pedigree,he will somehow get the midfield in,that those two deserve(surely Rooney will be a massive part in that) and we become somewhere near as fluent as we were back in 2014/15,which was the epitome of the Derby football I crave. Please let January be the start of that return to the Derby way. And if not,we get in a manager who can save us from the ignominy of league 1 before it's too late. Yeah, I particularly liked February to May that season as we collapsed from 1st to 8th. 'Oh, but there were crucial injuries'...funny how that excuse only extends to certain managers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Just now, LeedsCityRam said: Yeah, I particularly liked February to May that season as we collapsed from 1st to 8th. 'Oh, but there were crucial injuries'...funny how that excuse only extends to certain managers.. Wow,to actually again the number one spot and then drop to eighth is a bloody dream in comparison to the current car crash...... At which point have we achieved any sort of fluidity this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 46 minutes ago, Chester40 said: You usually talk a lot of sense, but I'm sure you have made this point more than once now and I am surprised that such an intelligent fella is making it. Pesumably someone with Cocu's reputation and desirability wouldn't come to a mid-table second tier football team for a packet of pork scratchings and the promise of a bonus when he gets us promoted. He had his fingers burned with his last job, going from being linked with real stellar jobs to considering us. He obviously wanted the chance to rebuild his reputation and have the time to prove his worth and transform a club from top to bottom... and Mel was very impressive in securing his services for a club in our position. Really think its unfair to hammer him for tying Cocu down to a long contract, how else would he have been convinced to come? Well look @Chester40 thanks for the compliment; I haven’t actually made this point before. Also, I don’t believe we are a mid-table 2nd tier football club - we’re not quite as non-descript as you make out. We’ve been competing at the top-end of the Championship for the last 5 years, are founder members of the EFL, former Cup Winners and English Champions with top rate facilities and a large and loyal fan base; and I’m not really “hammering” Mel Morris just merely pointing out the dilemma that is now being faced. For me, reputation counts for little and perhaps I speak too much as I find for some people. There are many inducements that can be written into contracts that have a pre-requisite condition attached and for all we know they are in Mr Cocu’s - Mel Morris is too thoughtful and clever for there not to be. Maybe I’m totally wrong and that in a reasonable period of time the players will start to do all of the things that Cocu points out we didn’t do in the game - show courage, pass accurately, exploit the wide spaces in and behind the Wigan defence, increase the tempo etc. But I see the product on the field and see the dis-connect between the “game plan” theory and draw the conclusion that I think pertains: that the players aren’t sufficiently convinced by the approach to put it into action. Maybe it’s because it doesn’t “transfer” to the English game. Anyhow, we’ll see. But I’m just saying it as I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibby Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 He has found it tough, the Derby manager for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 18 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Wow,to actually again the number one spot and then drop to eighth is a bloody dream in comparison to the current car crash...... At which point have we achieved any sort of fluidity this season? Not the point Kash. We had a bloody good team that year (yes, that McClaren had developed) & it fell off a cliff. From top of the table to dropping out of the playoffs is a disaster however you frame it. Will Hughes, George Thorne, Jeff Hendrick, John Eustace, Tom Ince...good grief, absolute superstars compared to what we have now. You're right in one sense...absolutely no fluidity. They're not good enough Kash. And if the rumours are true about the Christmas Eve meal, their heads arent there either. No wonder we are where we are. Not Cocu's fault though, no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 So how is the vote going? Perhaps another vote is needed to please the corexit crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 The lads were disappointed to only get a packet of crisps mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 49 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said: Not the point Kash. We had a bloody good team that year (yes, that McClaren had developed) & it fell off a cliff. From top of the table to dropping out of the playoffs is a disaster however you frame it. Will Hughes, George Thorne, Jeff Hendrick, John Eustace, Tom Ince...good grief, absolute superstars compared to what we have now. You're right in one sense...absolutely no fluidity. They're not good enough Kash. And if the rumours are true about the Christmas Eve meal, their heads arent there either. No wonder we are where we are. Not Cocu's fault though, no way. Mate,cocu has responsibility for this...he's the manager..he chooses the squad,he trains them,he motivates them,he baalocks them..he is the boss. If he didn't have responsibility,we we wouldn't need managers,we would just have a bunch of individuals running around doing what they wanted. Which is what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Mate,cocu has responsibility for this...he's the manager..he chooses the squad,he trains them,he motivates them,he baalocks them..he is the boss. If he didn't have responsibility,we we wouldn't need managers,we would just have a bunch of individuals running around doing what they wanted. Which is what we have. Kash, the players are not good enough. Its as simple as that. Look at the squad currently - 3 decent strikers, albeit one who is never fit (allegedly) and your fave who has been constantly pushed out on loan by successive managers. A patched up back 4 (who can't play out as we need) and a midfield shorn of the 2 players who created and scored most of our goals last year. And lets not underplay the effect of the club captain sacked for gross misconduct...its killed the goodwill in this squad, I'm certain of that. We all know you want McClaren back but c'mon man, not even he could improve this shower. Its a rebuild job, there's quite a few that need to leave the club and quite a few that need to come in. If we're still crap this time next year, absolutely justified in wanting Cocu out but without the benefit of a couple of full transfer windows I just don't see the sense in pulling the trigger now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 58 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Mate,cocu has responsibility for this...he's the manager..he chooses the squad,he trains them,he motivates them,he baalocks them..he is the boss. If he didn't have responsibility,we we wouldn't need managers,we would just have a bunch of individuals running around doing what they wanted. Which is what we have. Absolute nonsense. We are clearly still trying to play to a system and we just aren’t good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, cannable said: Absolute nonsense. We are clearly still trying to play to a system and we just aren’t good enough. Right.. So change the system to one that the players you have,at this time,can play, ffs. That's what being a manager is about.....managing what you have in the most effective way. Good grief. No wonder we struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsRam1999 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Not sure if this has been said elsewhere but you only have to look at Southampton to look at the rewards of sticking with a manager who is trying to implement a philosophy. He’s been given time even though in a relegation battle and it’s paid dividends. They tore Chelsea apart and play some lovely football, whilst turning their season around in recent games. Give Cocu a January transfer window to keep us up. Then a full preseason without the deadwood he doesn’t want and his own players and you’ll see what we can play like. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Keep the faith. COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 20 minutes ago, LeedsRam1999 said: Not sure if this has been said elsewhere but you only have to look at Southampton to look at the rewards of sticking with a manager who is trying to implement a philosophy. He’s been given time even though in a relegation battle and it’s paid dividends. They tore Chelsea apart and play some lovely football, whilst turning their season around in recent games. Give Cocu a January transfer window to keep us up. Then a full preseason without the deadwood he doesn’t want and his own players and you’ll see what we can play like. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Keep the faith. COYR I can't see it. But let's hope so. COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, LeedsRam1999 said: Not sure if this has been said elsewhere but you only have to look at Southampton to look at the rewards of sticking with a manager who is trying to implement a philosophy. He’s been given time even though in a relegation battle and it’s paid dividends. They tore Chelsea apart and play some lovely football, whilst turning their season around in recent games. Give Cocu a January transfer window to keep us up. Then a full preseason without the deadwood he doesn’t want and his own players and you’ll see what we can play like. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Keep the faith. COYR Good post fellow Leeds. A slighter better comparison though would be the man some of the 'out' crowd want...Chris Hughton. A horrible first 6 months at Brighton where they finished just outside the bottom 3, then a really strong next season. He wouldn't turn this club around instantly...he didn't at Brighton initially. Its all about the quality of the squad & being given the opportunity to have transfer windows to change things around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyhill60 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, LeedsRam1999 said: Not sure if this has been said elsewhere but you only have to look at Southampton to look at the rewards of sticking with a manager who is trying to implement a philosophy. He’s been given time even though in a relegation battle and it’s paid dividends. They tore Chelsea apart and play some lovely football, whilst turning their season around in recent games. Give Cocu a January transfer window to keep us up. Then a full preseason without the deadwood he doesn’t want and his own players and you’ll see what we can play like. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Keep the faith. COYR Southampton are deeper in the doodoo than we are. Twelve months since the manager arrived (though they stayed up last season) they still are flirting with relegation. I will though concede their football is better than the tripe we are seeing. I would rather give Coco a P45 than a transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, sunnyhill60 said: Southampton are deeper in the doodoo than we are. Twelve months since the manager arrived (though they stayed up last season) they still are flirting with relegation. I will though concede their football is better than the tripe we are seeing. I would rather give Coco a P45 than a transfer window. More nonsense from the hysterical brigade. Southampton are top division with some decent players - they had a horrible result against the bindippers then have markedly improved. Please explain how that compares to losing 3 quality loan players and a club captain after a drink driving crash whilst simultaneously recovering from the disappointment of a playoff final defeat? Oh and what exactly is the reason why you call him 'Coco', leaving aside the nauseating arrogance which permeates most of your other posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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