Moving players out and FFP?

[IslandExile]

So Cocu has said this himself but I think it's a generally held view, January is a more awkward window than the one in the summer.

Some clubs are desperate to buy yet other clubs are less keen to release their better players.

Even with incoming investment, if it happens, presumably for FFP, we need to move some players out to balance those coming in.

The problem for us is that our underperforming, injured and (likely) overpaid players may not appeal to many potential buying clubs.

Unfortunately, to placate the baying mob, Cocu and Mel may not be able to wait until contracts expire in the summer. So you FFP experts..... Is it better to loan players out (even part paying salaries) or just pay them off?

Next question..... Which players do we think other clubs may take?

Bogle is the obvious one. I can imagine us selling him - if only to give him the chance to progress his career quickly. I just hope we don't let him go on the cheap.

Marriott seems to be on his way to Hull. I revealed some time ago that my friend, who works for the Tigers, said they're expecting to sign him in January.

I've just read a post saying Sunderland are in for Martin again. No smoke without fire but that saddens me.

In fact all three of the above sadden me. To me they're easily amongst our better players. I had very high hopes for Marriott - in my view the best natural finisher we've had since Bobby Davison.

I can only think of one other player that may generate interest.

First though, let me say that I really believe we should tie this player down with a 10 year contract and lock him in a cupboard every transfer window (is that legal?).

But didn't Wolves want/offer a million for Sibley?

Before, I am flamed I am not saying we should let Sibley go at all. It's my big fear going into this window.

I've argued a lot that we're rebuilding but, when doing so, club's often sell one or two of their better players (eg. Vydra) to bring others in.

My hope is that we don't have to lose any of the above mentioned players. Unfortunately, noone will want to buy/pay our lesser players. 

[RoyMac5]

We've such a threadbare squad that I'd not let anyone, bar Anya, leave in January. The spectre of relegation is real ffs.

[IslandExile]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

We've such a threadbare squad that I'd not let anyone, bar Anya, leave in January. The spectre of relegation is real ffs.

Well I'm hoping we'll bring some in but that doesn't tend to happen in January.

Anya is a good example of how difficult it will be to ship players out. Given his fee, he'll be one of the higher paid players but when will he ever be fit to play? They barely mention him in DET's injury updates these days.

[Rolleston]

Cocu must take responsibility for being 17th in the league. With the players we have it's not acceptable to see stats where we  sometimes hardly manage a shot on target. It dosn't matter who is up front, Martin, Waghorn or Marriott, if you stave them of chances we are not going to score. Bringing in new players won't change much, we need a manager who the players believe in. Cocu never got the players on side, it's just a matter of how long he can hang on in there.

[IslandExile]

4 minutes ago, Rolleston said:

Cocu must take responsibility for being 17th in the league. With the players we have it's not acceptable to see stats where we  sometimes hardly manage a shot on target. It dosn't matter who is up front, Martin, Waghorn or Marriott, if you stave them of chances we are not going to score. Bringing in new players won't change much, we need a manager who the players believe in. Cocu never got the players on side, it's just a matter of how long he can hang on in there.

? Yawn.

Happy Christmas

[Mark of Ayrshire]

44 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

So Cocu has said this himself but I think it's a generally held view, January is a more awkward window than the one in the summer.

Some clubs are desperate to buy yet other clubs are less keen to release their better players.

Even with incoming investment, if it happens, presumably for FFP, we need to move some players out to balance those coming in.

The problem for us is that our underperforming, injured and (likely) overpaid players may not appeal to many potential buying clubs.

Unfortunately, to placate the baying mob, Cocu and Mel may not be able to wait until contracts expire in the summer. So you FFP experts..... Is it better to loan players out (even part paying salaries) or just pay them off?

Next question..... Which players do we think other clubs may take?

Bogle is the obvious one. I can imagine us selling him - if only to give him the chance to progress his career quickly. I just hope we don't let him go on the cheap.

Marriott seems to be on his way to Hull. I revealed some time ago that my friend, who works for the Tigers, said they're expecting to sign him in January.

I've just read a post saying Sunderland are in for Martin again. No smoke without fire but that saddens me.

In fact all three of the above sadden me. To me they're easily amongst our better players. I had very high hopes for Marriott - in my view the best natural finisher we've had since Bobby Davison.

I can only think of one other player that may generate interest.

First though, let me say that I really believe we should tie this player down with a 10 year contract and lock him in a cupboard every transfer window (is that legal?).

But didn't Wolves want/offer a million for Sibley?

Before, I am flamed I am not saying we should let Sibley go at all. It's my big fear going into this window.

I've argued a lot that we're rebuilding but, when doing so, club's often sell one or two of their better players (eg. Vydra) to bring others in.

My hope is that we don't have to lose any of the above mentioned players. Unfortunately, noone will want to buy/pay our lesser players. 

Yawn

 

Merry Xmas 

[IslandExile]

22 minutes ago, Mark of Ayrshire said:

Yawn

Merry Xmas 

Aye, sorry it was a long post. I bore myself sometimes.

All you wish for yourself ?

[Millenniumram]

In any transfer window you’ve always gotta balance the ins with outs in order to keep a squad thats of a reasonable size - not too big, but not too small either. Obviously with the stupid FFP regulations, those outs now sometimes have to be selling players up the leagues for big money in order to stay within the limits, and then finding some way to replace those players which you wouldn’t ordinarily want to sell. Goodness knows how close we are to the limits really without having access to the clubs accounts, but it’s certainly a possibility we may have to lose some players we don’t want to. 

Hopefully however, things won’t be as bad as we fear, and we might just be able to get away with selling players that we don’t think are good enough/ are surplus to requirements, ie players we actually want to see. But the trouble as the OP rightly says, is that we can make these players available for transfer, but we’ve got to find a buyer! That can sometimes be difficult, and I guess there’s nothing we can do but hope that someone out there takes a fancy to one of our players that we want shot of, we get paid and everyone’s happy. Doesn’t always work like that though sadly. But it’s still best to get rid of players off the wage bill either which way up imo if possible, so if all we can get is a loan offer, then the money from that is better than nothing. Always best to wait as long as possible though imo to see if a perm deal comes in and delay any loan offers until the end of the window. We really want to raise cash straight away if possible.

Personally, I think our squad is quite shallow at the minute - lacking in depth too much for me - which is why injuries have hit us hard. Not enough players of first team quality. So I’m expecting more ins than outs this window to try and bring that depth of quality back throughout the squad hopefully. For the few outs that I’m expecting, I’m probably at the moment anticipating 2/3 to leave. With Thorne coming back from loan, I think first of all he’ll be shipped out to league one again for good sadly. His Derby career is done unfortunately, which is very sad for a player of his quality. Beyond that, I’m expecting Marriott to leave somewhere else 8n the championship, but I really hope we can get some decent money in a perm for him and not just a loan. Finally, Bogle could possibly leave to move up to the prem for big money, which I’m sure is something we’ve all feared for a while. Let’s just hope if it does happen, we can start a bidding war and get more than his market worth - for once when selling our prospects...

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

I think if there is a change of ownership we will be investing quite heavily in Jan.

For the formation Cocu seems to want to play we need some wingers and probably a centre back (before we ship anyone out) based on the squad we have now.

After that I think it will be a case of only moving an in with an out balanced.

If Marriott is going, then I think we will probably have someone (striker) lined up already.

[IslandExile]

16 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

in order to keep a squad thats of a reasonable size

I've not quoted all of your post for brevity but I agree with it.

However, I want to emphasize the point you make about squad size.

I think small tight-knit squads have better spirit and generally work better. The counter argument has been the ridiculous number of injuries sustained this year. Ordinarily though, injuries can be covered by fringe players and youngsters but this year....

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

I've not quoted all of your post for brevity but I agree with it.

However, I want to emphasize the point you make about squad size.

I think small tight-knit squads have better spirit and generally work better. The counter argument has been the ridiculous number of injuries sustained this year. Ordinarily though, injuries can be covered by fringe players and youngsters but this year....

Think as with anything there’s a balance. You certainly don’t want a 40 man squad where you’ve got players with no hope of playing on big wages, who will undoubtedly be unhappy. But equally, you don’t want a paper thin 18 man squad where a couple of injuries could wreck you. I think we’ve been hard hit by injuries this season, but not ridiculously so, you’ve gotta expect a fair few injuries in any season and be able to cope with it. So you’ve gotta have the depth in your squad so that a few injuries won’t significantly weaken you.

For me, the ideal size is probably 2 players for every position, and a couple extra in reserve. About 25 is a reasonable number. You’ve got that competiton for places everywhere, but no ones too far from the team to never have a chance of staking a claim, and also enough in reserve to survive injuries.

[Rev]

I've spent the evening in the company of a forest fan, who knows a fair bit behind the scenes from past experience.

He reckons they're trembling over there over Derby's transfer window spend, how that measures up to P&S losses I don't know, but he thinks we'll surprise everyone come January.