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RamLad1884

Total Overhaul?

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Up until recently didn't think this team needed much more than a few tweaks to make it competitive. Starting to think otherwise though. 

 

We arguably need a first team signing for every key position on the pitch now:

GK: Hamer is just a short term fix right now, still doesn't give us much confidence. 

CB: Fozzy gave it a shot, it hasn't worked. Davies is beyond his best 

CM: need a Bradley Johnson type midfield for the tough away games. Sibley/Knight are coming through but neither will have the enforcer role. 

Wingers: Lawrence is currently our best/only winger, that says at all really. 

Striker: who's our goalscoring striker? We've got three very good players for the position, yet non seem to work. Do they need someone to play with them that will set the game up? Is Rooney going to be the answer? 

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Not sure what Hamer did wrong yesterday, 2 of the goals against were penalties.

We need to replace Keogh down to the exceptional circumstances surrounding his departure I agree.

Didn't we get rid of a Bradley Johnson type midfielder who actually WAS Bradley Johnson. 

Lawrence isn't a winger, not sure what he is but he isn't a winger. Is Josefoon alive or still injured?

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1 minute ago, RamLad1884 said:

Up until recently didn't think this team needed much more than a few tweaks to make it competitive. Starting to think otherwise though. 

 

We arguably need a first team signing for every key position on the pitch now:

GK: Hamer is just a short term fix right now, still doesn't give us much confidence. 

CB: Fozzy gave it a shot, it hasn't worked. Davies is beyond his best 

CM: need a Bradley Johnson type midfield for the tough away games. Sibley/Knight are coming through but neither will have the enforcer role. 

Wingers: Lawrence is currently our best/only winger, that says at all really. 

Striker: who's our goalscoring striker? We've got three very good players for the position, yet non seem to work. Do they need someone to play with them that will set the game up? Is Rooney going to be the answer? 

I disagree and think we just need tweaks. We certainly have the players who are more than capable of being in the top 6. There are though bigger issues below the surface: the big question for me is whether the players as a group have “bought in” to Cocu’s style and philosophy. Their body language tells me that they don’t believe in him. It will be fascinating to see the level of impact that Rooney’s presence has on the team. Will he make a palpable difference?  It will certainly be a litmus test of his leadership potential. I personally think that there will be some impact but insufficient to turn things around. I also dislike Cocu’s defensive “stay in the game” mentality where he worries too much about the opposition. I also wonder about a supporting coaching staff of 6 and if there are too many cooks giving mixed messages; It’s all over-cerebralised, overly-complex, football-on-a-whiteboard type stuff.  I suspect there are 2 main outcome scenarios:

1. Cocu and his supporting cast of 6 will stay and gradually bring in his own players; but in 2 season’s time we will still be at best mid-table. 
 

2. The Club will call “time” on Cocu et al as 32 Red don’t want to be associated with a degenerating shift and Pride Park stadium being a half-empty husk of a football ground. 
 

Cocu et al need to show some form of forward promise and quick. I personally don’t like his anti-football approach and at present will not be renewing my or my son’s season tickets next season. The quality of football isn’t good enough and life is too short waiting for Godot. Sorry Phillip. 

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1 minute ago, Ellafella said:

I disagree and think we just need tweaks...

I also dislike Cocu’s defensive “stay in the game” mentality where he worries too much about the opposition. I also wonder about a supporting coaching staff of 6 and if there are too many cooks giving mixed messages; It’s all over-cerebralised, overly-complex, football-on-a-whiteboard type stuff.  I suspect there are 2 main outcome scenarios:

1. Cocu and his supporting cast of 6 will stay and gradually bring in his own players; but in 2 season’s time we will still be at best mid-table. 
2. The Club will call “time” on Cocu et al as 32 Red don’t want to be associated with a degenerating shift and Pride Park stadium being a half-empty husk of a football ground. 

Cocu et al need to show some form of forward promise and quick. I personally don’t like his anti-football approach and at present will not be renewing my or my son’s season tickets next season. The quality of football isn’t good enough and life is too short waiting for Godot. Sorry Phillip. 

Every word hits the nail on the head. He seems a lovely bloke with good intentions, but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions...and down we go.

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10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Not sure what Hamer did wrong yesterday, 2 of the goals against were penalties.

We need to replace Keogh down to the exceptional circumstances surrounding his departure I agree.

Didn't we get rid of a Bradley Johnson type midfielder who actually WAS Bradley Johnson. 

Lawrence isn't a winger, not sure what he is but he isn't a winger. Is Josefoon alive or still injured?

Hamer hasn’t done much wrong he just hasn’t stopped any real shots going into our net 

players like Keogh and Bryson were exceptional for us and we have lost both very quickly 

Lawrence definitely isn’t a winger he is one of those modern day fancy dan players who think they can have all the nice bits 

( when did he cross to a team mate in the penalty box from the chalk line - when did he take a corner to one of our players - when did he last get a free kick on target never mind score a goal from one - actually Waghorn crosses a better ball and takes a better corner and free kick) 

i am not having a pop but these all seem very real 

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Totally agree with the last statement.I will not be paying over £500 for me and my son's season tickets to watch this shambles.At this rate we will soon be bottom.reading were awful says it all.

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52 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I have been watching a long time and trust me it’s been a lot worse than this 

I genuinely believe we need stability in leadership and some actual luck with all the injuries and referees 

Agreed, I've been fortunate enough to have only watched Derby since the early 2000s. But this does feel like one of the only moments post *that* premier league season that we've taken somewhat of a step backwards. 

 

We've got more talent coming from the academy than ever, but we need some top players around them. A leader on the pitch has to be the first and main priority right now. 

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46 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I have been watching a long time and trust me it’s been a lot worse than this 

I genuinely believe we need stability in leadership and some actual luck with all the injuries and referees 

When? The only time I've seen the players give up, as they appear to have now, is when we got relegated in 1984. We looked more cohesive under Jewell when we were getting tonked in the PL. 

This season doesn't actually matter as long as we don't get relegated. The key question is will Cocu build a successful side given some time? It's the answer to that which gives you the answer to the sack/keep question. For me the answer is no. Indeed, I think that it's very likely we will get relegated. Mel looks to be sticking by Cocu, so January will be wasted. We don't have the FFP room to buy lots of players. Any quality loanees won't fancy a humiliating relegation. 

It appears that Cocu can't deal with intensity in football. He failed in Turkey and he's failing here. He's the wrong fit. I suspect that if he goes back to Holland or moves to Spain, Portugal or even Brazil, where football is slower and more skilful, he'd do brilliantly,  but he's only going to drag us down.

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I’ve long thought this team needed an overhaul after the players we lost in the summer. Said as much to much ridicule in the summer when I suggested when needed more signings than just a couple for the first team, and was slammed when I said the transfer window was a failure. It appears most on here are now coming around to that point of view. The players we were left with are absolutely nowhere near a promotion squad, which is what we should be aiming for. For me this is how I assess our starting players:

GK: Hamer is never a first choice goalie at this level. Totally out his depth. New player needed here

RB: Bogle is a good player. But his form has dipped worryingly. Is it down to poor coaching? Either way up, we need some proper competition in the same style as him here imo.

CB: Davies and Forsyth have quality in certain respects. But we need a Keogh replacement here, a true organiser at the back, and one for the long term as well. Massively important transfer.

LB: Lowe has the potential to be a promotion winning LB. But I’m not sure he’s quite there yet with his reading of the play defensively. I’d stick here for now, but you could make an argument for needing another here as well!

CDM: Bielik is one of the few who are good enough imo. But if we’re playing 4231, we need a decent partner signing for him.

Wing: Waghorn and Lawrence are both distinctly average players. Neither good enough to see a team up. Vital to get at the very least one signing here, preferably two.

Number 10: Holmes is a good player overall, but lacks that final quality. Could do with adding some more quality here, but with Rooney coming in, I think we’ll get away with it.

ST: Martin is again a good player. But he’s not quite the player that he was, from a consistency and goal output perspective imo. Rooney is joining though, and between them I think we’ve got enough quality here.

I make that 5 first choice signings. A lot of work to be done, more of which should have been done last summer.

Edited by Millenniumram

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12 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

When? The only time I've seen the players give up, as they appear to have now, is when we got relegated in 1984. We looked more cohesive under Jewell when we were getting tonked in the PL. 

This season doesn't actually matter as long as we don't get relegated. The key question is will Cocu build a successful side given some time? It's the answer to that which gives you the answer to the sack/keep question. For me the answer is no. Indeed, I think that it's very likely we will get relegated. Mel looks to be sticking by Cocu, so January will be wasted. We don't have the FFP room to buy lots of players. Any quality loanees won't fancy a humiliating relegation. 

It appears that Cocu can't deal with intensity in football. He failed in Turkey and he's failing here. He's the wrong fit. I suspect that if he goes back to Holland or moves to Spain, Portugal or even Brazil, where football is slower and more skilful, he'd do brilliantly,  but he's only going to drag us down.

Totally agree this job looks like its to big for him January is a massive month for Derby County,if we dont sign at least 3 quality players along with a couple more loanees (if aloud) we will be in the bottom three come Feb

Look at the form table of the championship,the last 6 games we are rock bottom and i dont rate our chances at Wigan and there one place above in the form book that tells you every thing about this side 

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Hardly surprising after manager after manager, some our fault some not.......

We will need it even more if some were to get their way and sack Cocu.

We cannot continue to go through managers like Katie Price goes through men, look at the state she is in...be warned.....

Give Cocu time.....it will come good absolutely sure of it.

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27 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

When? The only time I've seen the players give up, as they appear to have now, is when we got relegated in 1984. We looked more cohesive under Jewell when we were getting tonked in the PL. 

This season doesn't actually matter as long as we don't get relegated. The key question is will Cocu build a successful side given some time? It's the answer to that which gives you the answer to the sack/keep question. For me the answer is no. Indeed, I think that it's very likely we will get relegated. Mel looks to be sticking by Cocu, so January will be wasted. We don't have the FFP room to buy lots of players. Any quality loanees won't fancy a humiliating relegation. 

It appears that Cocu can't deal with intensity in football. He failed in Turkey and he's failing here. He's the wrong fit. I suspect that if he goes back to Holland or moves to Spain, Portugal or even Brazil, where football is slower and more skilful, he'd do brilliantly,  but he's only going to drag us down.

I agree with the first couple of paragraphs but baffled by your last paragraph, what do you mean by intensity of football? It’s not like he’s on the pitch himself , the players on the pitch are journeyman championship players. Cocu’s style will fail anywhere at the moment, he won’t succeed in Spain, Brazil or Portugal, three leagues that are far more intense than you suggest unless you think long ball championship football is “intense”.  Just a bit of a strange comment that you pick in three countries and you can include holland in that, that have made their name on ‘high intensity football” and winning the ball as quickly as possible, it’s a complete myth put forward by the sky sports marketing team that anywhere not England is not intense.

On Cocu, he is as far away from the Dutch philosophy as possible, he’s not an Eric ten Haag let alone a Cruyff philosophy which focuses on getting the ball as back as quickly as possible and the ‘5 second rule’. People just think that because he’s Dutch , he’s going to make us play good football, it’s a lazy comparison and done by people who haven’t done their research on Cocu , the football isn’t going to get much better than this, no matter how much money he has to spend. Anyway, it doesn’t really matter what I think but if Mel thought that Cocu is going to make us play good football just because Cocu’s Dutch then he’s an absolute mug.

Edited by Sexydadbod

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1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

I have been watching a long time and trust me it’s been a lot worse than this 

I genuinely believe we need stability in leadership and some actual luck with all the injuries and referees 

Agree with other posters on this, been following 25 years and this is 'up there' with the worst performing squad and management team I have seen in that time. On paper the squad, Rosenior, Rooney, Cocu and co look's decent...in reality so far it's proving to be a car crash (excuse the pun)

Edited by chewbacca

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2 minutes ago, deanoakaram4life said:

We’ve needed an overhaul after Rowetts poo or bust season. During Rowetts summer window the age of the players coming in was worrying. 

The club needs to back Cocu in January without a shadow of doubt! 

 

Yep last season really did paper over the cracks with the outstanding loans we had.

Big fan of Mel but shouldnt have sacked Mac......

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Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Either time.

I know we cant prove it...but we would be up wouldnt we.....well i think we would.

Would have got those players back from injury....made some improvements with ince signing on permanent and so on....

Honestly think we would have walked the league the next season instead of being under clement.

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1 hour ago, Ellafella said:

I disagree and think we just need tweaks. We certainly have the players who are more than capable of being in the top 6.

What colour is the sky in your world?

So, last season, with Mount, Tomori, Wilson, Keogh, Johnson, Bryson and a fit Huddlestone, we only just scraped sixth.

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