Cocu in or out?

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

I'm sure he's a lovely bloke. Lovely wife. Nice dog. posh crockery. Expensive carpets. Big car. Sophisticated dinner parties. Burt Bacharach music playing in the background. Original artworks lining the walls. The sort of chap who can get away with wearing white trousers. He could probably talk about wine without sounding pretentious. His curtains probably make a lovely swishing sound as they effortlessly glide across the beautifully proportioned windows of his elegant home. His laughter is genuine, friendly and warm. Old people feel ten years younger when he talks to them. So much to admire really.

he just can't seem to pick a frickin team.

I tried my hardest to picture all that in my mind... it all sounds so lovely... but I just couldn't let go of the fact that, in my mind at least, those curtains didn't quite meet in the middle!

[irobinson]

my confidence in him is Waning (get it Wayneing!!)

20 games in now. - I suppose we have to give him a chance with WR and the next transfer window

but getting a bit pissed with us at the mo tbh

 

 

 

 

[King Kevin]

4 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

What makes you say that? 

Not all motivators are screaming and shouting from the sideline-types like Klopp

Have you not noticed we don't put a proper shift in ,rarely win second balls ,lose by 2 or 3 goals away from home on a regular basis ,look lethargic and leggy compared to other teams etc .

I had some corporate a few weeks ago and spoke to some ex Derby players, now this was about the time of booze gate but never the less they remarked they had never seen the club so bad behind the scenes. 

I'd swop Klopp for Cocu any day of the week but I take your point .

 

[Jayram]

48 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

To be fair, wasn’t you opposed to the appointment of Lampard saying Mel had got it wrong then ?

Not saying your wrong, but it’s to early to judge for me.

I did have my reservations at the start of FL’s reign but his team at least provided entertainment and memorable games through the season. Apart from the First half of PNE it has been dismal fare this season. 
 

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, King Kevin said:

Have you not noticed we don't put a proper shift in ,rarely win second balls ,lose by 2 or 3 goals away from home on a regular basis ,look lethargic and leggy compared to other teams etc .

I had some corporate a few weeks ago and spoke to some ex Derby players, now this was about the time of booze gate but never the less they remarked they had never seen the club so bad behind the scenes. 

I'd swop Klopp for Cocu any day of the week but I take your point .

 

I have noticed that mate and I've been massively unimpressed by a lot of what I've seen from our players this season. At the end of the day though a manager can only motivate you so much. I sometimes wonder if players read fans blaming the manager for that sort of thing and think "phew, I got away with that one!"

[Rampage]

2 hours ago, Wolfie20 said:

Surely, without the injuries there would have been

One would have hoped so W20 but I  still cannot imagine us being clear top six material. A few players nowhere near their best form 

[BondJovi]

7 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

I have noticed that mate and I've been massively unimpressed by a lot of what I've seen from our players this season. At the end of the day though a manager can only motivate you so much. I sometimes wonder if players read fans blaming the manager for that sort of thing and think "phew, I got away with that one!"

Certainly at first team level I have long felt the players take zero responsibility and the manager takes the flak when it goes wrong. The large turnover of managers does not help one bit. No one in place long enough to do a thing about it. This ethos must change.

[AdamRam]

14 minutes ago, Jayram said:

I did have my reservations at the start of FL’s reign but his team at least provided entertainment and memorable games through the season. Apart from the First half of PNE it has been dismal fare this season. 
 

Your post was after the new year though I believe, not the start of the season ?

Also would you not agree that FL had the players at his disposal to provide entertainment and memorable games ?

[Jayram]

36 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Your post was after the new year though I believe, not the start of the season ?

Also would you not agree that FL had the players at his disposal to provide entertainment and memorable games ?

Well maybe - I don’t tend to trawl through old posts, but what I do not agree with is that this squad should be performing so badly so consistently. That is 100% down to the current manager. 

[Millenniumram]

Out, and I resent the fact that just because you want Cocu gone means that you want a hoofball merchant appointed and instant success. I’m not after either of those, and most certainly not the former!

After a season like last year, the natural expectation this season would be to go one better and get promoted. However, I’m more than happy giving the many mitigating circumstances this year (the joiners, useless scouts etc etc) to lower my expectations and give a somewhat free pass for at least a season, maybe even two to a manager to sort this mess out. But the “somewhat” is key there. I can’t get on board with this give a manager time for the sake of it mentality. This isn’t 1980. It doesn’t work like that. What clubs in recent history have stuck through a manager playing poorly and it’s all resolved into a roaring success? Norwich to an extent? That’s about it? There’s plenty more examples of teams who have gone through lots of managers and been successful. Watford, Leicester, Southampton, Villa, Chelsea... the list goes on. Personally, I don’t see this constant craving for managerial stability. The games moved on from those days.

Can understand fans who aren’t Cocu out just yet and want to give him a bit more time. Fair enough, we all have different expectations. But I can’t understand those saying he should be left in charge no matter what happens for 2 years or more. Why? For stabilities sake? Seems to me people think that if we just give any manager time that it’ll all magically come together. You’ve got to be seeing at least potential in the performances to be warrant being given time. The wrong man is the wrong man, simple as. And, in my opinion at least, Cocu is the wrong man. Others may think differently and fair enough, but I can’t see how a manager with such a defensive attitude as Cocu seems to have can possibly be the man to carry on from Lampard like MM wanted. Cause if he wanted a man with an attacking philosophy, then he’s quite clearly made a colossal error of judgement here. He’s never been an attacking minded manager, and almost certainly never will be. So what’s the point in giving him time? So we can build an inferior Clement side? No. If Cocu is the sort of manager to play Bogle at Rb, be too scared to press at Blackburn, and bleeding set up a team to counter bloody QPR, then he’s got to go.

And I don’t want him replacing with a hoofball merchant. We need someone who can actually continue to play attacking football like we saw last season. And they do exist, we just have to do our research. Seems to me people are too scared to make a managerial change because it could go wrong. Which, of course, it could. But why should it, if we actually do our research properly? Can sorta understand the fear given some of our recent appointments, but we’ve gotta try and trust a bit that Mel and his advisors aren’t total mugs. With new investors coming in too, there might be more people there who can find a decent manager in there. 

OH, and one more thing. The term “transition season” needs to be burnt in fire. What a load of utter baalocks. And even if it wasn’t utter baalocks, a transition season is one where you bring in a fair few players and look to settle them all in. Which isn’t what’s happened this season (even though it should’ve done). So the transition season would be next year. And then when does it all end? No, we go for promotion every year until it’s done. We can lower expectations, but we don’t piss about “experimenting” and subject fans to platters of utter horseshit every game away from home like we are at the moment. 

[goldstar]

5 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Out, and I resent the fact that just because you want Cocu gone means that you want a hoofball merchant appointed and instant success. I’m not after either of those, and most certainly not the former!

After a season like last year, the natural expectation this season would be to go one better and get promoted. However, I’m more than happy giving the many mitigating circumstances this year (the joiners, useless scouts etc etc) to lower my expectations and give a somewhat free pass for at least a season, maybe even two to a manager to sort this mess out. But the “somewhat” is key there. I can’t get on board with this give a manager time for the sake of it mentality. This isn’t 1980. It doesn’t work like that. What clubs in recent history have stuck through a manager playing poorly and it’s all resolved into a roaring success? Norwich to an extent? That’s about it? There’s plenty more examples of teams who have gone through lots of managers and been successful. Watford, Leicester, Southampton, Villa, Chelsea... the list goes on. Personally, I don’t see this constant craving for managerial stability. The games moved on from those days.

Can understand fans who aren’t Cocu out just yet and want to give him a bit more time. Fair enough, we all have different expectations. But I can’t understand those saying he should be left in charge no matter what happens for 2 years or more. Why? For stabilities sake? Seems to me people think that if we just give any manager time that it’ll all magically come together. You’ve got to be seeing at least potential in the performances to be warrant being given time. The wrong man is the wrong man, simple as. And, in my opinion at least, Cocu is the wrong man. Others may think differently and fair enough, but I can’t see how a manager with such a defensive attitude as Cocu seems to have can possibly be the man to carry on from Lampard like MM wanted. Cause if he wanted a man with an attacking philosophy, then he’s quite clearly made a colossal error of judgement here. He’s never been an attacking minded manager, and almost certainly never will be. So what’s the point in giving him time? So we can build an inferior Clement side? No. If Cocu is the sort of manager to play Bogle at Rb be too scared to press at Blackburn, and bleeding set up a team to counter bloody QPR, then he’s got to go.

And I don’t want him replacing with a hoofball merchant. We need someone who can actually continue to play attacking football like we saw last season. And they do exist, we just have to do our research. Seems to me people are too scared to make a managerial change because it could go wrong. Which, of course, it could. But why should it, if we actually do our research properly? Can sorta understand the fear given some of our recent appointments, but we’ve gotta try and trust a bit that Mel and his advisors aren’t total mugs. With new investors coming in too, there might be more people there who can find a decent manager in there. 

Bang on! And all this 'give him a couple of transfer windows and see how he does' to me are mad, then when Morris eventually pulls the trigger and decides that yes we do need that attack minded Manager, we're absolutely ducked, because we would then have a squad full of players that are defunct for the new system. The cycle starts again.

We need to face up to it. He's the wrong man with the wrong philosophy for what we wanted to carry on with after Lampard.

[Rample]

In. So tired of all this chopping and changing. Let's break the cycle by giving him time to get his plan in place.

Okay its not overly encouraging or even evident what we're doing at the moment, but we've tried numerous fixes with limited results.

Cocu has staked his (fairly decent) reputation on us, committing to a project, and I don't think he's going to jump ship as soon as another team come knocking. He's bought in to the club as much as the club has bought into him, so I'd like to see if that partnership can work.

[IslandExile]

9 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

And I don’t want him replacing with a hoofball merchant. We need someone who can actually continue to play attacking football like we saw last season.

That's a fair point - and I apologise for generalising that all those wanting Cocu out would prefer a Warnock or Pullis. It's just that's how it seems sometimes.... They are the instant fix managers that are usually proposed.

The other one often mentioned is Hughton. While not hoofball, like the others, he strikes me as being quite negative, certainly was in the Premier League (and before anyone mentions necessity because of the squad he had, that's a valid reason for Cocu now).

So who are the attack minded managers that appeal to you?

[Millenniumram]

5 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Bang on! And all this 'give him a couple of transfer windows and see how he does' to me are mad, then when Morris eventually pulls the trigger and decides that yes we do need that attack minded Manager, we're absolutely ducked, because we would then have a squad full of players that are defunct for the new system. The cycle starts again.

We need to face up to it. He's the wrong man with the wrong philosophy for what we wanted to carry on with after Lampard.

Exactly... people calling for continuity in managers are the same as those calling for a consistent attacking philosophy. You’re not gonna get the latter if the former is Cocu. We need the latter. We don’t need the former. Set up a proper philosophy throughout the club (for the love of god get a DOF!) and we won’t need to worry about changing managers, because the approach will remain the same, and the players will still suit. It’s not the sacking of managers that’s been our problem in recent years, it’s getting the wrong ones in the first place.

Giving the wrong man time to rebuild the team will set us back long term, not progress us. Unless Cocu miraculously changes his approach, he has to go before he destroys us.

[RamNut]

9 minutes ago, goldstar said:

We need to face up to it. He's the wrong man with the wrong philosophy for what we wanted to carry on with after Lampard.

Oh well. Maybe that’s what happens when we pick a manager based on an article in 442 magazine.

[Owd miner]

19 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Out, and I resent the fact that just because you want Cocu gone means that you want a hoofball merchant appointed and instant success. I’m not after either of those, and most certainly not the former!

After a season like last year, the natural expectation this season would be to go one better and get promoted. However, I’m more than happy giving the many mitigating circumstances this year (the joiners, useless scouts etc etc) to lower my expectations and give a somewhat free pass for at least a season, maybe even two to a manager to sort this mess out. But the “somewhat” is key there. I can’t get on board with this give a manager time for the sake of it mentality. This isn’t 1980. It doesn’t work like that. What clubs in recent history have stuck through a manager playing poorly and it’s all resolved into a roaring success? Norwich to an extent? That’s about it? There’s plenty more examples of teams who have gone through lots of managers and been successful. Watford, Leicester, Southampton, Villa, Chelsea... the list goes on. Personally, I don’t see this constant craving for managerial stability. The games moved on from those days.

Can understand fans who aren’t Cocu out just yet and want to give him a bit more time. Fair enough, we all have different expectations. But I can’t understand those saying he should be left in charge no matter what happens for 2 years or more. Why? For stabilities sake? Seems to me people think that if we just give any manager time that it’ll all magically come together. You’ve got to be seeing at least potential in the performances to be warrant being given time. The wrong man is the wrong man, simple as. And, in my opinion at least, Cocu is the wrong man. Others may think differently and fair enough, but I can’t see how a manager with such a defensive attitude as Cocu seems to have can possibly be the man to carry on from Lampard like MM wanted. Cause if he wanted a man with an attacking philosophy, then he’s quite clearly made a colossal error of judgement here. He’s never been an attacking minded manager, and almost certainly never will be. So what’s the point in giving him time? So we can build an inferior Clement side? No. If Cocu is the sort of manager to play Bogle at Rb, be too scared to press at Blackburn, and bleeding set up a team to counter bloody QPR, then he’s got to go.

And I don’t want him replacing with a hoofball merchant. We need someone who can actually continue to play attacking football like we saw last season. And they do exist, we just have to do our research. Seems to me people are too scared to make a managerial change because it could go wrong. Which, of course, it could. But why should it, if we actually do our research properly? Can sorta understand the fear given some of our recent appointments, but we’ve gotta try and trust a bit that Mel and his advisors aren’t total mugs. With new investors coming in too, there might be more people there who can find a decent manager in there. 

OH, and one more thing. The term “transition season” needs to be burnt in fire. What a load of utter baalocks. And even if it wasn’t utter baalocks, a transition season is one where you bring in a fair few players and look to settle them all in. Which isn’t what’s happened this season (even though it should’ve done). So the transition season would be next year. And then when does it all end? No, we go for promotion every year until it’s done. We can lower expectations, but we don’t piss about “experimenting” and subject fans to platters of utter horseshit every game away from home like we are at the moment. 

Well said owd lad... buts let not also forget that sum of the football served up by lampard wa shocking as well. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

Exactly... people calling for continuity in managers are the same as those calling for a consistent attacking philosophy. You’re not gonna get the latter if the former is Cocu. We need the latter. We don’t need the former. Set up a proper philosophy throughout the club (for the love of god get a DOF!) and we won’t need to worry about changing managers, because the approach will remain the same, and the players will still suit. It’s not the sacking of managers that’s been our problem in recent years, it’s getting the wrong ones in the first place.

Giving the wrong man time to rebuild the team will set us back long term, not progress us. Unless Cocu miraculously changes his approach, he has to go before he destroys us.

Its all about opinions. I don't agree with you but we will see. Remember our views, yours or mine, aren't facts. 

[Parsnip]

Cocu out for me. I always like a managerial change regardless of how they're doing.

[Gritstone Ram]

In for me. Too many manager changes for me. Give him some time ffs. I doubt Pep could do much with this shower. (That’s Pep Clotet by the way)

[Andicis]

3 hours ago, BondJovi said:

Wilder had the team in league one. He didn't take over a team in a mess and they didn't get promoted first season back up in the championship. I agree those players are performing above and beyond expectations but he has been in that job a while.

As for Warnock, he probably would get this group of players in the play offs but we'd pay for it long term. He doesn't improve players he just knows how to get results.

Of course Rooney is a distraction, once he can play that will change but for now it is, another coach thrown into the mix.

I would say your captain injuring himself in a drink driving incident and having his contract terminated is about as bad as it can get. How has that gone down with the players? Great for dressing room harmony.

 

Any reason for the lack of comment on players that have got better under Cocu's coaching? You say Warnock doesn't know how to improve Cocu, I'll ask again, who has Cocu improved? I can't see a single one he's improved. Not one. So the drink driving incident is just a get out of jail free card for Cocu? Because, I remind you, we weren't exactly playing well before the incident either.