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oomarkwright

v Sheffield Wednesday Match Thread

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Thought I'd sleep on it before passing judgement. 

Another game, another formation, another set of personnel, another unforced error gifting the opposition a goal, same outcome.

If this is a transition season, Cocu needs to hurry up and decide what we are transitioning to.

At the moment it appears alot of the players are not sure what is being asked of them.

Cocu seems more interested in stopping the opposition than in playing our own game.

Its admirable that we want to play out from the back, but when your centre backs are Curtis Davies and Craig Forsyth it's just an accident waiting to happen.

Playing one up top on his own is fine if you're going to get bodies around him. When you're holding midfielders starting position is behind your centre backs this isnt going to happen.

Lots of things which seem obvious to the fans in the stand but a master tactician is oblivious to. Maybe I'm missing something. 

I have no problem with being a mid table team but if that is the case I would at least like a bit of entertainment in the home matches. I'll be honest, I've not been this bored watching us for a long time.

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1 hour ago, CWC1983 said:

Massive gaps in the stands last night. 

Its probobly a mix of pricing /  lack of entertainment on show this season / general apathy around the club. 

 

Someone says this every midweek game...

Swansea - 27,337 (Sat)
Bristol - 25,546 (Tue)
West Brom - 26,718 (Sat)
Cardiff - 25,873 (Fri)
Birmingham - 28,454 (Sat)
Luton - 27,944 (Sat)
Wigan - 24,697 (Wed)
Boro - 26,293 (Sat)
Preston - 27,417 (Sat)
QPR - 26,289 (Sat)
Sheff Wed - 26,203 (Wed)

Our highest attendance of the season not on a Saturday

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1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Someone says this every midweek game...

Swansea - 27,337 (Sat)
Bristol - 25,546 (Tue)
West Brom - 26,718 (Sat)
Cardiff - 25,873 (Fri)
Birmingham - 28,454 (Sat)
Luton - 27,944 (Sat)
Wigan - 24,697 (Wed)
Boro - 26,293 (Sat)
Preston - 27,417 (Sat)
QPR - 26,289 (Sat)
Sheff Wed - 26,203 (Wed)

Our highest attendance of the season not on a Saturday

But aren’t these figures based on tickets sold not people in the ground ? So the seat can be sold but empty as the season ticket holder has decided to stay away ? Those tapas are the fans who are tired of watching it week after week ! 

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3 minutes ago, loweman2 said:

But aren’t these figures based on tickets sold not people in the ground ? So the seat can be sold but empty as the season ticket holder has decided to stay away ? Those tapas are the fans who are tired of watching it week after week ! 

Not anymore

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7 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Lawrence was poo no arguing, but Whittaker was the worst player for me, I heard someone say has he been dragged off the street to make the numbers up and it certainly looked like that.

Ive not seen enough of him to judge him and certainly won’t write him off after one game, but does give a reminder of the step up from the U23s. Knight was ok and at least put his foot in, but Cocu has a very hard job with the squad at his disposal. Not saying he he is helping himself, but we need that Jan transfer window quick.

Yeah, I gave Whittaker a bit of leeway as it was his first start, but he was a rabbit in the headlights, not mentally ready for the step up.

Cocu will learn which of the U23s are ready and which aren’t. I just don’t know what it is about Derby that stops young talent emerging. Even Bogle took quite a while to make his way.

Our young players don’t seem physically or emotionally ready. Are we too soft, from top to bottom?

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6 minutes ago, loweman2 said:

But aren’t these figures based on tickets sold not people in the ground ? So the seat can be sold but empty as the season ticket holder has decided to stay away ? Those tapas are the fans who are tired of watching it week after week ! 

Hmm, good point, certainly food for thought.

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1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

2 up top ?

we had two games of it ... one convincing win at home one bogle assisted defeat to forest in a much much improved away performance 

we looked like we finally had round pegs in round holes 

then he binned it off 

why ?

the players were available to play it 

With the midfield available 2 up top won't fix our creativity issues. I agree it should not have been ditched.

Marriott has 1 goal in 29 league appearances. Might be 30 now. You can say about needing starts but many strikers are impact subs. That simply is not good enough. Theo Robinson would be more of a goal threat currently.

 

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35 minutes ago, Half Fan Half Biscuit said:

This seems to be happening more often since Keogh's sacking. Cause and effect?

I actually think up until a couple games ago, he was having his best spell in a Derby shirt.

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4 hours ago, Van Cone De Head said:

https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/286205-Derby-v-wednesday-omdt/page/33/#comments
Always a good read the Wendies forum.

The general consensus amongst them is that this is the worst Derby team for several years.

Yep, these Owls are a wise lot!🦉🦉🦉🦉🦉🦉🦉🦉🦉🦉🦉🦉

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4 hours ago, Van Cone De Head said:

https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/286205-Derby-v-wednesday-omdt/page/33/#comments
Always a good read the Wendies forum.

The general consensus amongst them is that this is the worst Derby team for several years.

"Set off like Seb Coe...  Finished like Bil Ko"

Made me chuckle!  :-)

 

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9 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

13 goals , Averaged around 1 in 3.  About 6 or 7 of those appearances were 5 minute cameos .  That makes his strike rate more impressive last year.  The poo spell in the middle of the season was after a stomach injury. It also coincided with Mount being injured. Can't score 25 goals sat on the bench and the occasional half arsed chance due to lack of ammunition.

All this about Marriotts attitude is balls . Cocu praised his attitude earlier in the year.  Saying how much he liked his determination and desire.

The bit in bolds right, they are very different players.

I understand what you're saying and I agree to a point (I don't dislike Marriott) but I'd be intrigued to know how many of the goals he scored came from off the bench. All three playoff goals did. Lampard didn't even fancy starting him up front on his own at Wembley despite the semi final win over Leeds. 

I suspect this is because he's more effective when the game is stretched. At the moment we can't afford to give Marriott time to find fitness or form because while he's trying to find them he offers practically nothing.

There is also the fact you alluded to with Mount that we have sod all creativity at the moment, so he's even less effective.

 

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Well that was a truly heinous first half, that was exactly like we played at Blackburn. Devoid of anything whatsoever. You name it, we weren't doing it or didn't have it. 

For the first time though, Cocu did manage to change a performance at half time which is some kind of positive in a night of very few.

Martin was a pure poohouse and it was brilliant to watch, fully winding up their centre back all game. Jason Knight never fails to impress and Duane Holmes had a good game. 

Failing to see what Waghorn does well anymore and Malone is truly horrendous in everything he does.

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8 hours ago, philmycocu said:

Evans and Holmes is the weakest midfield in this division.

Bielik deep with Shinnie and Sibley for me, Lawrence at the tip. Simples.

(when they're fit)

I think that's the problem though & certainly was last night. Our midfield looks very weak without Bielek and/or Shinnie in there. Cocu is getting hammered elsewhere on this thread for a midfield played out of necessity.

As a general point, not withstanding the key injuries, that first half was unacceptable. Very little work rate, no pressing & the quality when we did have the ball was abysmal. Second half we went more direct & worked harder and looked much better. 

Thought Martin did well considering what little support he got. Also disagree with some as thought Holmes had a good second half, his runs drag defenders away & opens up space. He'd be very useful in a better balanced midfield.

Defensively we were generally solid...aside from our passing. I think we need to play through or over the lines rather than sideways, Forsyth's struggles last night and Davies in general show that we are simply not set up to play this way. If we want to play from the back, Evans needs to be one of the CBs.

Lawrence continues to frustrate & I'm not sure his head is right judging by his demeanour & erratic play. My instinct says he needs some time out of the team, my worry is who would replace him unless we go for one of the youth team lads.

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12 hours ago, SaintRam said:

Derby attack; good progressive passes. Over to TL who runs into a defender, turns around and plays it back to our CBs.

Do people really think someone like Scott Sinclair wouldn't be a better option on the left? 

Or Sir Clive if he is still alive?

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One more point...
In my opinion, most of the blame for their goal falls on Holmes (Forsyth should have directed his pass back to Hamer or Davies though)

1. Forsyth releases the ball. Holmes has the option of moving towards the ball to receive it - no one else is close enough to make this difficult.

image.png.999787457614b8e63e7b9ab5c4c9f3ce.png

2. The ball is halfway along it's path. Neither Derby player has moved. The Weds player has entered the screen (slowly jogging). Davies starts to back off as he expects Holmes to go towards the ball. The Weds player closest to Forsyth moves central with Forsyth staying wide.

image.png.70ab06ba128d0dc63795044c038ebbb5.png

3. Holmes realises the pass is loose and turns to get the ball. The alert Weds player is already in a full sprint running on to the ball, with Fletcher running central to pick up the early pass and an easy shot on goal.

image.png.ac2ce77025bc58aef07a05ea458d0d4c.png

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