IslandExile Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 I genuinely do not want to upset the impatient and the frustrated, so I will not mention the "t" word used to describe this season. However, let's just imagine, for a moment, the outlandish possibility that we will not get promoted this season. Sorry, that may be a shock to some of you but bear with me. With investment appearing to be close, I wonder if the money will start to burn holes in Cocu's pockets. He will have a couple of transfer windows and some of the academy lads will have a few more first team games under their belts. In another thread, Someone thought we only need 3/4 new players to be competitive. Maybe, yes, to be competitive but I want to sweep the league and have an unassailable lead by Christmas. I think we'll need real quality to do that and, so, I suspect the team will be quite different. As much as I like the idea of Marriott and Martin up front together with a number 10 behind, Cocu seems to prefer 433, so using that as a starting point, here's those I think will survive the cull... ?? Bogle ?? ?? Lowe Rooney? Bielik. Knight/Sibley ?? ?? Whittaker/JML So that's at least 5 new players, plus more to fill squad places. Anyone else worthy of a place next season? Remember, we'll have money on tap ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 I'm not sure, but 7 or 8 high quality players should just about do it. Not asking for much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 I’d say Tom Lawrence to play in the no.10 role or switch with Rooney in that 4-3-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
California Ram. Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 just saying....but best two players at the weekend were Forsyth and Wisdom (and I suspect they'd be our best current centre-back pairing). In the last few weeks, we've seen man of the match performances from Shinnie, from Martin, from Lawrence... We all want the youngsters to come through (and they look excellent at their level and I'd add others from the U-23s to the list above) - but jury still out on all of them....I think Bogle would be better with a hard man like Wisdom alongside him, Lowe with Shinnie ahead of him (as he was at Aberdeen). Rooney may unlock Marriott's undoubted but frustrating abilities. What we've lacked this season is a pattern, a consistent shape - it's partly injuries, it's partly Cocu not knowing his squad, it's partly disappointment on the performance of Dowell and Josefzoon and Roos. it's not as simple as 7 new faces plus Bogle, Lowe, Bielik and Rooney... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 2 hours ago, singaporeram said: just saying....but best two players at the weekend were Forsyth and Wisdom (and I suspect they'd be our best current centre-back pairing). In the last few weeks, we've seen man of the match performances from Shinnie, from Martin, from Lawrence... We all want the youngsters to come through (and they look excellent at their level and I'd add others from the U-23s to the list above) - but jury still out on all of them....I think Bogle would be better with a hard man like Wisdom alongside him, Lowe with Shinnie ahead of him (as he was at Aberdeen). Rooney may unlock Marriott's undoubted but frustrating abilities. What we've lacked this season is a pattern, a consistent shape - it's partly injuries, it's partly Cocu not knowing his squad, it's partly disappointment on the performance of Dowell and Josefzoon and Roos. it's not as simple as 7 new faces plus Bogle, Lowe, Bielik and Rooney... While I agree with what you are saying. If we are building a squad for promotion, you have to look at the team FOR the prem. The ones highlighted are getting on a bit now and although they are good NOW maybe another year will be one too many. Their contracts are all but up, maybe time to cut loose? However in real terms I would think most will; stay this year and we will fill the weakened places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted December 5, 2019 Author Share Posted December 5, 2019 You beat me to it @BathRam72. Exactly that...Forsyth, Wisdom and especially Shinnie and Martin have put in some really good performances but, just because they've been amongst the better performers is not enough. If we are to finally get promotion, we need higher quality players at the peak of their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Have to agree with the OP here. We’ve got some good players in our squad, but precious few who are that absolute top quality required to get out this division. To get out the division, you need to be too good for it, and so you need players who are too good good for the league. Very few of ours fall in that category imo. We’d do ok with probably 3/4 first team signings and a few more in reserve. But to really push on for the top end of the league, we need a proper squad rebuild for me. Current side isn’t anywhere near good enough. Just have to hope that the investment somehow allows a cash injection into the budget while still remaining within FFP. Think we’d need a lineup (assuming a long term 433 aim) something like this to really fight at the top (with the caveat that some youngsters could come through this season or next and take the “new” places in some cases): New Bogle New New Lowe Bielik Holmes New New New New Slightly busy summer needed then, and that’s not even counting all the outs needed as well!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marriot Ram99 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Have to agree with the OP here. We’ve got some good players in our squad, but precious few who are that absolute top quality required to get out this division. To get out the division, you need to be too good for it, and so you need players who are too good good for the league. Very few of ours fall in that category imo. We’d do ok with probably 3/4 first team signings and a few more in reserve. But to really push on for the top end of the league, we need a proper squad rebuild for me. Current side isn’t anywhere near good enough. Just have to hope that the investment somehow allows a cash injection into the budget while still remaining within FFP. Think we’d need a lineup (assuming a long term 433 aim) something like this to really fight at the top (with the caveat that some youngsters could come through this season or next and take the “new” places in some cases): New Bogle New New Lowe Bielik Holmes New New New New Slightly busy summer needed then, and that’s not even counting all the outs needed as well!? TBH I think Holmes is nowhere near top end quality, he has flashes of quality but is vastly overrated by many Derby fans just because he is exciting to watch, in terms of goals and assists he is nowhere near the level required and he doesn't have the defensive part of the game down either, I would compare him to a faster but significantly worse version of Will Hughes when he was at Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marriot Ram99 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Even Lowe is completely unproven as a top end championship player, he obviously has potential but still along way to go yet, based off recent form the same can be applied to Bogle. I really would say nobody in our team is proven top end quality, Bogle, Lowe , Lawrence, and Marriott have the potential for it as do a lot of our other younger players, but as negative as it sounds I would go as far as saying unless we either invest extremely astutely or spend £15-25 mill in the summer on quality + loans next season is a right off for anything better than about 5th, and most likely it will be another midtable season, just might be a better midtable season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: To get out the division, you need to be too good for it, and so you need players who are too good good for the league. Not necessarily. If you don't have top top players that doesn't mean you can't go up. A good team spirit with everyone pulling in the same direction can get you there. Sheffield United come to mind. Individually they're nothing special, but the team is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said: TBH I think Holmes is nowhere near top end quality, he has flashes of quality but is vastly overrated by many Derby fans just because he is exciting to watch, in terms of goals and assists he is nowhere near the level required and he doesn't have the defensive part of the game down either, I would compare him to a faster but significantly worse version of Will Hughes when he was at Derby. Best attacking player in our squad imo. Doesn’t get the goals and assists because the team around him isn’t good enough. Technically he’s excellent, he’s intelligent, and he’s got a great all round game for me, strong in the tackle as well. I’ll keep championing him while others on here don’t rate him lmao, he’s my main man. I’d also liken him to Hughes, but I wouldn’t say he’s significantly worse, though no one is quite at Wills level ?. Needs to play that role though, the ball carrying midfielder role, that’s where you’ll see him shine. Stick him in number 10 and expect goals from him and he’s always gonna look poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: Not necessarily. If you don't have top top players that doesn't mean you can't go up. A good team spirit with everyone pulling in the same direction can get you there. Sheffield United come to mind. Individually they're nothing special, but the team is. It’s a good point, but I’d very much argue we don’t have that at the moment either! Sheffield United was an example of top class management as well, that takes you far in the game. Cocu ain’t shown himself to be at Wilders level yet that’s for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marriot Ram99 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Millenniumram said: Best attacking player in our squad imo. Doesn’t get the goals and assists because the team around him isn’t good enough. Technically he’s excellent, he’s intelligent, and he’s got a great all round game for me, strong in the tackle as well. I’ll keep championing him while others on here don’t rate him lmao, he’s my main man. I’d also liken him to Hughes, but I wouldn’t say he’s significantly worse, though no one is quite at Wills level ?. Needs to play that role though, the ball carrying midfielder role, that’s where you’ll see him shine. Stick him in number 10 and expect goals from him and he’s always gonna look poor. Hasn't got the final ball or killer instinct imo , very good dribbler in tight spaces and energetic but he hasn't got many other attributes that make him stand out that much for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said: Hasn't got the final ball or killer instinct imo , very good dribbler in tight spaces and energetic but he hasn't got many other attributes that make him stand out that much for me. Does need to work on his final decision making its true, but he’s got everything else for me, and enough ability to work on making him more effective in the final third. But as I say, I don’t actually see him as the furthest forward of the two CMs, he’s more Hughes than Bryson for me, so to speak. You want someone next to him with that killer instinct in the final third, a goal scoring CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Millenniumram said: Does need to work on his final decision making its true, but he’s got everything else for me, and enough ability to work on making him more effective in the final third. But as I say, I don’t actually see him as the furthest forward of the two CMs, he’s more Hughes than Bryson for me, so to speak. You want someone next to him with that killer instinct in the final third, a goal scoring CM. Are you talking about Holmes? Your memory of better players has faded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: Are you talking about Holmes? Your memory of better players has faded. As I say, it’s not a popular opinion on here, but it’s what I believe, even if I’m alone in it! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 15 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Are you talking about Holmes? Your memory of better players has faded. Tbf the drabness around Holmes is possibly overemphasising his gloss.....? If I was mel I'd be looking at what my net player investment had provided and be reaching for the regimental pistol...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Holmes is our best player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, cannable said: Holmes is our best player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, cannable said: Holmes is our best player Holmes isn't the worst player I've seen, however when I read this I feel the urge to dig out old videos from 1997 and weep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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