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Big Trav

Experiment

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1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

@Big Trav

Why do you think we played these players in these positions...

  • Lowe RB
  • Bielik CB
  • Forsyth CB
  • Waghorn RW
  • Bogle RW
  • Holmes RW
  • Marriott RW

I'll give you a clue

  • Lowe played RB when Bogle, Wisdom, Holmes and Anya were all injured.
  • Bielik played CB when Keogh was our only fit CB, and again when Davies was our only fit CB
  • Forsyth played CB when Davies was our only fit CB
  • Waghorn/Bogle/Holmes/Marriott played RW as no recognized winger wants to play well when selected to play there.

Ok I can understand that some have been forced through injury like Lowe and bielik and Forsyth however bogle was tried at right wing because Holmes can play there. Cocu tried it to see if bogle was competent at rw to see if he is an option there in other games but also used him to see if wiz was good at right back. Same could be said for Marriott when he played there briefly. When I think about this more I truly believe he is experimenting to have a real real go at it next season with a big budget and lots of wages. He’ll also have had a years experience in England football and looking at players. He may also use his Dutch contacts or Spanish contacts to get bargains. 

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4 hours ago, King Kevin said:

I think any manager who doesn't pick a formation to get the best out of his players at any given time is an idiot.

I spoke to him yesterday as it happens, I told him to his face that I thought he was an idiot, He went on and on about as to why he does this and does that, I said aye wot yer on about, So he repeated himself, I went away shaking my head..all Double Dutch to me.

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4 hours ago, King Kevin said:

I think any manager who doesn't pick a formation to get the best out of his players at any given time is an idiot.

Klopp and Guardiola must be Idiots too then... both took over Liverpool and City, didn’t change their systems just made the player get on board with it or leave. 

They haven’t done too bad... 

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22 minutes ago, DCFC27 said:

Klopp and Guardiola must be Idiots too then... both took over Liverpool and City, didn’t change their systems just made the player get on board with it or leave. 

They haven’t done too bad... 

I really think that the players at their disposal are more capable of adapting than our lot.

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54 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

I really think that the players at their disposal are more capable of adapting than our lot.

 Point being they both went through bad first seasons and weren’t competing but season after they were immense once they brought in the players they identified. It’s pointless adapting your system to suit players that aren’t in your plans, better teaching the ones that are! 

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2 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

It seems to be an unusual hybrid of 433, 4231 and 442.

When Cocu was doing his first interviews, I remember him saying that his tactics are primarly 4-3-3 and top three can take various shapes.

Actually, I'm always surprised how keen a football fans are to these numbers anyway, there's not really difference between 4231, 433, 451, 4141 etc. Especially if there is a bit fluidity and/or pressing involved. No professional team is so strict that they'd defend and attack at the same shape.

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8 hours ago, Big Trav said:

Some fans will disagree saying if it’s not broke don’t fix it but changing systems will allow us to become very adaptable and very hard to beat and will be better in the longer term. He will identify positions that are needed and will implement the youth. Other fans will see the vision that he is creating and I think we’re in very good hands 

Thing is if we don't do well and compete then 'the youth' aren't going to want to come here and play for the 18s/23s.

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If Cocu hasn't realised by now that he has inherited a very average squad I would be concerned. He will be using this season to sort out who  is/isn't going to be able to fit into his overall strategy moving forward. 

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8 hours ago, Big Trav said:

Cocu tried it to see if bogle was competent at rw to see if he is an option there in other games but also used him to see if wiz was good at right back. Same could be said for Marriott when he played there briefly. When I think about this more I truly believe he is experimenting to have a real real go at it next season with a big budget and lots of wages. He’ll also have had a years experience in England football and looking at players. He may also use his Dutch contacts or Spanish contacts to get bargains. 

Sort of but sort of not. The rest of the post I've got my fingers crossed for and hope you're right.

The first part though, Cocu was trying to see whether Bogle could play RWB not RW and to see if Wisdom could play RCB not RB.

However when someone gets injured in the warm up you're only permitted to replace that player with another, and move somebody else to the bench, you can't decide to change more than one of the starting 11 and go with a totally different approach. We couldn't have changed it to a flat back 4 with Lowe & Bogle at RB/LB and stay within the laws. Nor were we able to change Waghorn or Marriott for Martin to add some of the control on the game that we lost by Bielik not playing.

We'd worked on a certain gameplan and one tactical decision by QPR and one injury to Bielik meant we had to play the players we'd selected in a different formation to that what was intended, even if Cocu was going to change it once he saw how QPR were lined up.

As it happened Wisdom showed that he was a better defensive RB than Bogle is (we didn't let an influx of crosses from Wisdom's side into the box)  and that he could be trusted to play there again when the game suits. Bogle isn't a RW, but could be a very, very good RWB, he's been exposed by opposition wingers a few times with his defensive frailties so maybe we'll reap the rewards of having Wisdom play a RCB role in the future. It needs to be tested at some point.

Wisdom is also capable of playing in a more attacking manner as shown under Steve McClaren, he can play a bit, even if he is the only player I've seen who has to stop moving completely before he plays a pass!

Put it this way, Chris Baird, despite his 35 years of age and an increasing lack of mobility was a far more intelligent and effecient attacking RB than Cyrus Christie ever was,.he just did t run up and down th wing. Even if Cyrus would run up and down the line all day and look more of  threat, it rarely meant he actually was.

(ps Jayden is far more effective than Cyrus, whichever way he's running!)

Edited by Coconut

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15 hours ago, europia said:

If Cocu hasn't realised by now that he has inherited a very average squad I would be concerned. He will be using this season to sort out who  is/isn't going to be able to fit into his overall strategy moving forward. 

Looking at the rest of the league I disagree. 3/4 decent squads. Our squad is under performing and we have no one stand out player this season. Just one of those factors change and we are instantly propelled into the top 6. 

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23 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Looking at the rest of the league I disagree. 3/4 decent squads. Our squad is under performing and we have no one stand out player this season. Just one of those factors change and we are instantly propelled into the top 6. 

Hardly say that we're underperforming.

Think this is the level the squad is currently at (Bare in mind we have been riddled with injuries etc)

We are without the spine we had last year, and replaced them with very very average players.

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6 minutes ago, Squid said:

Hardly say that we're underperforming.

Think this is the level the squad is currently at

 

Of course we are. We have not been putting in performances to justify being in the top 6. Yet we are only 6 points behind Preston. We do not need to improve considerably to be in the top 6. Our squad, playing well, would have us in the top 4. 

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5 hours ago, Uptherams said:

Of course we are. We have not been putting in performances to justify being in the top 6. Yet we are only 6 points behind Preston. We do not need to improve considerably to be in the top 6. Our squad, playing well, would have us in the top 4. 

We are where we deserve to be and actually, we were fortunate in a couple of the home wins. Our defence is shaky, midfield lacking creativity and our strikers look impotent a lot of the time. Not a top 4 squad, but's that is just my opinion. 

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Yesterday also sounded like an experiment our Phil with the 3 at the back. Think he’s smart enough to understand that won’t work. I believe he’s just been allowed to test stuff this season with the promises of funds and investment for next season to build his super god squad  

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