hintonsboots Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Don't groan at another JM thread. 33 goals in 56 games for Posh, so what's the problem. He's a natural finisher like Bobby D and Dean Saunders., but will need a creative CM and decent wingers to supply the ammo. Either he gets a long run with Chris Martin in the team or we swap him for Ivan Toney in the window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irobinson Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, hintonsboots said: Don't groan at another JM thread. 33 goals in 56 games for Posh, so what's the problem. He's a natural finisher like Bobby D and Dean Saunders., but will need a creative CM and decent wingers to supply the ammo. Either he gets a long run with Chris Martin in the team or we swap him for Ivan Toney in the window? Don't think he'll ever be Deano or Bob i'm afraid - certainly not ducking Kevin Hector - and I do worry about his attitude and commitment. There has been non plus reaction from Frank and now Phillip - something isn't right. I've been mulling over our three main strikers over the weekend - not sure if 2 out of 3 may be sold (think he'll be first one out)- this dept needs refreshing in my book only an opinion!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Simply put, he hasn’t made the step up. Obviously successful in the lower leagues, but just a poor all round player in this division unfortunately. He’s got the natural goal scoring ability, but nowhere near enough in terms of general play to back it up. Better quality in other areas of the team would help to improve the supply, from midfield and wide areas. But jacks got to work harder to get himself involved, needs to fight for the ball more, and he needs to improve his passing. At the moment, he’s not at the level Martin is at for me. He’s got to win his place and show that he’s still got a role to play in this squad, or I’d look at moving him on. Ivan Toney is a tough one really, clearly a top talent in league one level, but is he just Marriott mk2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 We've really never played to his strengths, he's not a lone striker and he's not a striker you pump long hopeful balls up to. Thought we'd finally cracked it playing him up with Martin, but that seems to have been abandoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Lampard signed him knowing he was going to play 4-3-3!! He’s always played as part of a 2 up front, we play with 1 up. He’s a square peg in a round hole, in the right system he’ll be brilliant for someone else. Bad signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Yay another patsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Millenniumram said: Simply put, he hasn’t made the step up. Obviously successful in the lower leagues, but just a poor all round player in this division unfortunately. He’s got the natural goal scoring ability, but nowhere near enough in terms of general play to back it up. Better quality in other areas of the team would help to improve the supply, from midfield and wide areas. But jacks got to work harder to get himself involved, needs to fight for the ball more, and he needs to improve his passing. At the moment, he’s not at the level Martin is at for me. He’s got to win his place and show that he’s still got a role to play in this squad, or I’d look at moving him on. Ivan Toney is a tough one really, clearly a top talent in league one level, but is he just Marriott mk2? Kind on Adam LaFondre for the current era.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said: Kind on Adam LaFondre for the current era.? Tbh can’t remember much of le Fondre other than he always seemed to score against us, looked like bleeding Messi from what I got to see? But clearly wasn’t so good against anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 46 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said: Lampard signed him knowing he was going to play 4-3-3!! He’s always played as part of a 2 up front, we play with 1 up. He’s a square peg in a round hole, in the right system he’ll be brilliant for someone else. Bad signing. Even though we have proved all season long that one up front doesn't work. And having apparently learned that and gone to two up, looking the better for it, we go back to one up against a team that has been easy to beat.................. Duuuuhhhh????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewsFromTheMiddle Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Showed last season how prolific he could be at this level. Just doesn’t have the quality around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilsonram12 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Needs more games in a diamond formation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 2 hours ago, hintonsboots said: Don't groan at another JM thread. 33 goals in 56 games for Posh, so what's the problem. He's a natural finisher like Bobby D and Dean Saunders., but will need a creative CM and decent wingers to supply the ammo. Either he gets a long run with Chris Martin in the team or we swap him for Ivan Toney in the window? Ask stephen hawking? we don't play 442 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfb Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 He's a fox in and around the box,we've seen it.... he scores goals no one else in the squad would, either u incorporate that in your game plan or u don't. I'm not sure Cocu is convinced of what else he offers, nor am I. So 'building around him' is difficult. That means he's a horse for a course, and will be used as the manager sees fit, which probably doesn't help Jack confidence wise, catch 22 situation. Somehow it seems Jack has to add more to his game, maybe Wayne can help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therams69 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Unfortunately he is a victim of the silly tactics that are played in this modern era. Strikers like him, Danny Wellbeck, Rashford, etc etc will have all scored goals after goals from under 6's to say under 16's playing up top. For some reason as soon as they get pro, managers take this out of their game and play them on the wing. Does my head in, it really does..... Yesterday against QPR was an example. Left up top and no service. Jack is a striker who relies on through balls to him on the floor or via the wingers where he becomes the fox in the box, very much like what Dean Sturridge did or say Tommy Johnson or Gabbiadini. Now all of them would also struggle in todays setup imho as would Bobby D... Perhaps we focus too much on this number 10 role...... Personally would love to see him and either Waghorn or Martin up top with 2 tricky wingers down the line getting balls crossed in. Not relying on the full backs like we currently do. The setup we currently play does simply not suit Jack. Question is, do you change it for someone who can score goals or keep trying to play with the number 10, I think its fairly obvious what should be done for me........... After all, goals win football matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, RamNut said: Ask stephen hawking? we don't play 442 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therams69 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Have a look at this video from his 2017/2018 time at Peterborough and look how many goals were from through balls or fox in the box action and then ask yourself who at Derby suppliers such balls......... By the time the full backs are up the top of the pitch the defenders and midfielders are well covered where if its wingers crossing the balls in the chances are that they are already level with a full back which means in theory only 2 centre backs to get in the middle of.... Because of the number 10 role all play generally goes through them which means that they tend to run at players as opposed to feeding a hungry striker. I would just love a goal where the ball is booted up ... Its flicked on my Waghorn or Martin and marriott runs onto it and scoress........ I think the last time that happened may have been Leeds away in the playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, therams69 said: The setup we currently play does simply not suit Jack. Question is, do you change it for someone who can score goals or keep trying to play with the number 10, I think its fairly obvious what should be done for me........... After all, goals win football matches I simply could not have put it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukedcfc Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 One thing is guaranteed, he will scores goals for fun if he moves to another team that plays to his strengths. I can see it now, a thread bemoaning the stupid decision To let him go. We need some quality around him, we don’t have it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfb Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, therams69 said: Unfortunately he is a victim of the silly tactics that are played in this modern era. Strikers like him, Danny Wellbeck, Rashford, etc etc will have all scored goals after goals from under 6's to say under 16's playing up top. For some reason as soon as they get pro, managers take this out of their game and play them on the wing. Does my head in, it really does..... Yesterday against QPR was an example. Left up top and no service. Jack is a striker who relies on through balls to him on the floor or via the wingers where he becomes the fox in the box, very much like what Dean Sturridge did or say Tommy Johnson or Gabbiadini. Now all of them would also struggle in todays setup imho as would Bobby D... Perhaps we focus too much on this number 10 role...... Personally would love to see him and either Waghorn or Martin up top with 2 tricky wingers down the line getting balls crossed in. Not relying on the full backs like we currently do. The setup we currently play does simply not suit Jack. Question is, do you change it for someone who can score goals or keep trying to play with the number 10, I think its fairly obvious what should be done for me........... After all, goals win football matches. When I read this I thought that it was saying kinda what I was saying but in a different and more relevant way... do we adapt to Jack, or, does Jack have to adapt to 'modern systems'... personally I would like him in the team, as as I said, he is just a goal machine in the right formation(which means players around him who play to his strengths). Ask yourself this, who would u want on the ball in or around the box, Marriott or Waghorn ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 27 minutes ago, therams69 said: Unfortunately he is a victim of the silly tactics that are played in this modern era. Strikers like him, Danny Wellbeck, Rashford, etc etc will have all scored goals after goals from under 6's to say under 16's playing up top. For some reason as soon as they get pro, managers take this out of their game and play them on the wing. Does my head in, it really does..... Yesterday against QPR was an example. Left up top and no service. Jack is a striker who relies on through balls to him on the floor or via the wingers where he becomes the fox in the box, very much like what Dean Sturridge did or say Tommy Johnson or Gabbiadini. Now all of them would also struggle in todays setup imho as would Bobby D... Perhaps we focus too much on this number 10 role...... Personally would love to see him and either Waghorn or Martin up top with 2 tricky wingers down the line getting balls crossed in. Not relying on the full backs like we currently do. The setup we currently play does simply not suit Jack. Question is, do you change it for someone who can score goals or keep trying to play with the number 10, I think its fairly obvious what should be done for me........... After all, goals win football matches. I agree with much of that. But if you want jack plus a strike partner, you have to bin both the no10 AND the holding midfielder. Bristol city do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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