Derby blood Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 A bit harsh may be, not including the 3 loans Frank got in, how has his other signings done. Malone average at best Evans, poor Holmes trys his best, has a good engine on him, but his final ball is shocking Jozz very poor signing. Waghorn, not worth 4 million, we got our pants pulled down, with this deal Marriott 5 million, looks well off it, started well, but does not seem to bothered, and Frank complained about his fitness and attitude. So out of these signings only Holmes is worth the money we payed, so we have a lot of work ahead of us who ever our manager is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Shinnie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby blood Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, IslandExile said: Shinnie? This will probably be his best one, cost nothing and a pity he is out injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Who ever our manager is????? Very strange statement indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby blood Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, BathRam72 said: Who ever our manager is????? Very strange statement indeed Not strange at all, saying take our 3 excellent loans out of the team last year, who ever followed Frank had a tough job, a lot of poor signings where made, so to shape this squad will take time, whoever came in as manager, I think Frank's signings for what we spent where poor apart from Holmes and Shinnie, and without his 3 great loan signings, we would have been no where near the play offs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, Derby blood said: A bit harsh may be, not including the 3 loans Frank got in, how has his other signings done. Malone average at best Evans, poor Holmes trys his best, has a good engine on him, but his final ball is shocking Jozz very poor signing. Waghorn, not worth 4 million, we got our pants pulled down, with this deal Marriott 5 million, looks well off it, started well, but does not seem to bothered, and Frank complained about his fitness and attitude. So out of these signings only Holmes is worth the money we payed, so we have a lot of work ahead of us who ever our manager is. Had exactly this same conversation pre match at bustler market today oddly enough. Essentially they are all players you build around players who cause real damage to the opposition. No Lampard means that the influence of these players is neutered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Derby blood said: Not strange at all, saying take our 3 excellent loans out of the team last year, who ever followed Frank had a tough job, a lot of poor signings where made, so to shape this squad will take time, whoever came in as manager, I think Frank's signings for what we spent where poor apart from Holmes and Shinnie, and without his 3 great loan signings, we would have been no where near the play offs In the context that you made the original statement it would appear you are talking in the hear and now and "we have a lot of work ahead of us who ever the manager is". Ergo your statement suggests who ever the manager is going ahead from now. If you had said which ever manager took over from Frank then I wouldn't have questioned it. Or maybe my grammar isnt up to scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Would say calling them “Lampard’s signings” is a bit of a falsity. Think as usual most signings will have been done by the recruitment team, the same team which I believe is still in charge of transfers now (somehow). Certainly the permanent signings probably weren’t players found by Lampard, anyway. In fairness, I actually think last years transfers weren’t too bad, not by the standard of the signings we’ve made in recent years anyway - which isn’t high. Don’t think they were as bad as some of the 15/16 signings, or some of the signings we made last summer. Nowhere near top standard still mind, but still, there was the odd decent find in there. Malone is a good player in the main at this level. Inconsistent, and makes stupid decisions sometimes, but he’s got talent. Barring the odd shocker like today, he’s normally decent. Evans is a bit more of an enigma. The odd game he’s brilliant and makes you feel like he’s criminally underused. But then when he gets a run in the team, he just seems to vanish. Doesn’t make enough impact on games. There’s serious talent in there, it’s why he was in City’s academy, but he really doesn’t do enough when he gets a proper chance. Like today, totally anonymous. Has to impact games more and showcase his ability, seems to pass the buck on to players around him far too much, like Holmes today. Needs to work harder and stamp his authority on games. Holmes I know has been criticised a lot on here, but I love the bloke. He’s the one properly good signing in this lot for me. 700k or whatever it was for a reasonably unknown player, who turns out to be to be quality at this level. That’s the sort of scouting we need more of. Puts his all into every game, got good energy, good technique, and a strong tackle. Best CM at the club imo, and the only one remotely good enough (attacking midfield wise). Top player, who’d look a lot better with some decent players around him. Josefzoon I’m agreed on obviously. Poor player. Must have something about him to have made it at PSV, but he’s been shocking here. Can’t think of much he’s done to justify a £2 price tag yet alone 2mil. Terrible signing. Waghorn I agree was a bit of waste of money. Again not a great player. Had some decent play last year in fairness, but has been poor this year. Not enough quality, and the touch of a dead donkey. Marriott seems to be well loved, but I don’t quite get it. He’s scored some damn vital goals, so I suppose that’s why there’s always the question when he’s not playing. But he just doesn’t offer anywhere near enough in general play for me. Doesn’t work hard enough to come and get the ball, and seems to struggle for fitness. One of the poorest signings in this lot for me, especially given his recent struggles in front of goal. Have to include Shinnie as well in here I think. When he came into the team this season he was absolutely transformative. Finally a bit of energy and bite in the midfield. Looked a top player on a free transfer before his injury. So, bit of a mixed bag, but by our standards not horrendous. The lack of activity last summer has been the real real killer this year. Any claims of a transition season go out the window when we haven’t brought the players in to transition into anything yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby blood Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Would say calling them “Lampard’s signings” is a bit of a falsity. Think as usual most signings will have been done by the recruitment team, the same team which I believe is still in charge of transfers now (somehow). Certainly the permanent signings probably weren’t players found by Lampard, anyway. In fairness, I actually think last years transfers weren’t too bad, not by the standard of the signings we’ve made in recent years anyway - which isn’t high. Don’t think they were as bad as some of the 15/16 signings, or some of the signings we made last summer. Nowhere near top standard still mind, but still, there was the odd decent find in there. Malone is a good player in the main at this level. Inconsistent, and makes stupid decisions sometimes, but he’s got talent. Barring the odd shocker like today, he’s normally decent. Evans is a bit more of an enigma. The odd game he’s brilliant and makes you feel like he’s criminally underused. But then when he gets a run in the team, he just seems to vanish. Doesn’t make enough impact on games. There’s serious talent in there, it’s why he was in City’s academy, but he really doesn’t do enough when he gets a proper chance. Like today, totally anonymous. Has to impact games more and showcase his ability, seems to pass the buck on to players around him far too much, like Holmes today. Needs to work harder and stamp his authority on games. Holmes I know has been criticised a lot on here, but I love the bloke. He’s the one properly good signing in this lot for me. 700k or whatever it was for a reasonably unknown player, who turns out to be to be quality at this level. That’s the sort of scouting we need more of. Puts his all into every game, got good energy, good technique, and a strong tackle. Best CM at the club imo, and the only one remotely good enough (attacking midfield wise). Top player, who’d look a lot better with some decent players around him. Josefzoon I’m agreed on obviously. Poor player. Must have something about him to have made it at PSV, but he’s been shocking here. Can’t think of much he’s done to justify a £2 price tag yet alone 2mil. Terrible signing. Waghorn I agree was a bit of waste of money. Again not a great player. Had some decent play last year in fairness, but has been poor this year. Not enough quality, and the touch of a dead donkey. Marriott seems to be well loved, but I don’t quite get it. He’s scored some damn vital goals, so I suppose that’s why there’s always the question when he’s not playing. But he just doesn’t offer anywhere near enough in general play for me. Doesn’t work hard enough to come and get the ball, and seems to struggle for fitness. One of the poorest signings in this lot for me, especially given his recent struggles in front of goal. Have to include Shinnie as well in here I think. When he came into the team this season he was absolutely transformative. Finally a bit of energy and bite in the midfield. Looked a top player on a free transfer before his injury. So, bit of a mixed bag, but by our standards not horrendous. The lack of activity last summer has been the real real killer this year. Any claims of a transition season go out the window when we haven’t brought the players in to transition into anything yet. Some good points made, so do you think like me we need a little bit of patience and give Cocu a few windows to get the balance right in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Derby blood said: A bit harsh may be, not including the 3 loans Frank got in, how has his other signings done. Malone average at best Evans, poor Holmes trys his best, has a good engine on him, but his final ball is shocking Jozz very poor signing. Waghorn, not worth 4 million, we got our pants pulled down, with this deal Marriott 5 million, looks well off it, started well, but does not seem to bothered, and Frank complained about his fitness and attitude. So out of these signings only Holmes is worth the money we payed, so we have a lot of work ahead of us who ever our manager is. Malone - average Evans - cheaper Butterfield without the shooting holmes - decent value but limited in ability jozz - useless at home in 18 months slightly better away from home poor value waghorn - decent enough but over priced Marriott- he is a goalscorer but he is hardly on the pitch so he’s not is he? No comparison to vydra shinnie - very decent value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 44 minutes ago, Derby blood said: Some good points made, so do you think like me we need a little bit of patience and give Cocu a few windows to get the balance right in the team. Think we need to somehow get more involved in the transfer windows. It’s difficult, but I think with some better/more imaginative scouting we could get some more transfers in as well as out than we have been doing. We need a big squad change, that’s for sure. Large numbers in/out are needed for me. In terms of the manager, think someone has to have a season to get things right, so long as we look to be headed in the right direction. As I said in the match thread though, Cocu is starting to concern me a little. Is he taking us in the right direction? I’m sure he’s a good manager in the way he likes the game to be played. But he seems to have quite a negative approach to me. Given time, I think he’d probably build a decent Clement eque possession side... but is that the path we want to go down? For MM’s “Derby Way” I’m doubting whether he’s the man for the job atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Frank was a great man manager, but his signings weren’t great, and his recruitment lacked strategy. but at least he personally scouted players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby blood Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, RamNut said: Frank was a great man manager, but his signings weren’t great, and his recruitment lacked strategy. but at least he personally scouted players. Will need to improve on this in the future if he is going to be a top manager. At the moment he has to play the youngersters at Chelsea no choice, when he has money to spend, he will need to spend it wisely, finishing top 4 this year and next will be accepted but, if he has no trophy after 3 years he will be sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 11 hours ago, BathRam72 said: In the context that you made the original statement it would appear you are talking in the hear and now and "we have a lot of work ahead of us who ever the manager is". Ergo your statement suggests who ever the manager is going ahead from now. If you had said which ever manager took over from Frank then I wouldn't have questioned it. Or maybe my grammar isnt up to scratch Well if you're going to be picky about his grammar and syntax... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Malone - I've run out of patience with Malone now. He's poor defensively and his crossing is awful. Why does he insist on taking throw ins and then take 5 minutes to reach the ball and another 5 minutes to select someone to throw to? If he's gassed and needs to slow the game constantly that doesn't usually work in our favour. The one positive is that he appears to be doing everything in his power to get Lowe game time. Evans - A bits and pieces player who doesn't really do any one thing well enough to justify a starting place in the team. Maybe as he matures he'll become a Eustace type DM, adept at snuffing out attacks with tactical fouls before they even get stated, but right now he's often a passenger. Holmes - For the money paid Holmes is still a great signing in my book. I agree it's massively frustrating when he mucks up the final pass after doing everything else right and I don't know if he'll ever be able to find that killer ball with any regularity. I admire his work rate and this midfield is desperate for someone like Holmes who's actually willing to put in a tackle. Jozefzoon - Abdoul Camara mkII. Waghorn - A decent championship player, but we fell into our usual trap of signing a very ordinary player after their one and only exceptional season, thereby managing to pay about twice their actual market value. Marriott - A mystery. It's always been a challenge to keep him relevant in games for the full 90, that is now compounded by his previously exemplary finishing deserting him this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 12 hours ago, Sparkle said: Malone - average Evans - cheaper Butterfield without the shooting holmes - decent value but limited in ability jozz - useless at home in 18 months slightly better away from home poor value waghorn - decent enough but over priced Marriott- he is a goalscorer but he is hardly on the pitch so he’s not is he? No comparison to vydra shinnie - very decent value Eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Holmes has to go down as a good signing when you consider the impact he's had at times and the amount he cost. Still haven't made my mind up on Evans. Been out injured too much to gather a fair opinion. Same applies for Shinnie here, though I have been impressed with him this season. Waghorn and Marriott have both played their part at times. Scored some great goals. I think the Waghorn fee was an issue for someone his age, but Marriott will go down as one of the few signings over the last few years that we will almost definitely sell for a decent profit. I think Jozefzoon has got something about him. He's shown brief (very brief) flashes of real skill and pace, and you can't deny the fact that all the other players in the squad seem to think he's the most skilful. The player that Brentford had is still in there somewhere. Just think we need to find a way to get it out of him. The only problematic signing for me was Malone. A lot of money for a full-back who had become an almost comedy-character for Huddersfield fans. His ability to put a ball into the box seems to be getting worse, and now, every time he plays, I can't help but think that he's just getting in the way of Max Lowe's development. There's a lot of things I would happily criticise Lampard for, but recruitment under him was arguably better than the recruitment under the four manager that came before him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 4 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Well if you're going to be picky about his grammar and syntax... ? I blame predictive text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofmidnight Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 It's very difficult to compare last seasons squad with this because of the excellent loans so I am going to compare some of the outs with some of the ins. Under Rowett we lost Tom Ince, Will Hughes ( a huge error ) , Cyrus Christie and Johnny Russell who left to play in America and was a hard working player who drove the ball forward and in my opinion a great asset. The following season we sold Vydra who was a prolific goal scorer at championship level and I was very sad to see him go. There were others including Weimann but I wasn't totally convinced by him. The players brought in since 2017; Malone , Evans, Jofezoon, Waghorn, Marriott, Shinnie and Bielik. Shinnie and Bielik have shown promising ability, Marriott clearly has ability but 2 managers have been unable to unlock and utilize his talent. I'm not a huge fan of Waghorn because of his inability to control and hold on to the ball and as for Jofezoon and Evans....... However I am a fan of Holmes as he shows skill, pace and usually works well.In conclusion, and weighing up the evidence, I cannot see how this squad has been made stronger and some mistakes have been made in both the buying and selling of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethorn Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 On 30/11/2019 at 21:52, Derby blood said: A bit harsh may be, not including the 3 loans Frank got in, how has his other signings done. Malone average at best Evans, poor Holmes trys his best, has a good engine on him, but his final ball is shocking Jozz very poor signing. Waghorn, not worth 4 million, we got our pants pulled down, with this deal Marriott 5 million, looks well off it, started well, but does not seem to bothered, and Frank complained about his fitness and attitude. So out of these signings only Holmes is worth the money we payed, so we have a lot of work ahead of us who ever our manager is. Right my Glass Half full version Malone - Can do a job in championship but given we have Lowe/Forsyth and short term deal for Cole I am guessing he has not met expectations Evans - I think there is a player in there - needs to decided if it is DM or CB and work at it (not finished article) Holmes - I think can be awesome - admit he has struggled for form this season but I think he was a good spot and a good cheap option for a squad player Jozz - confounds this optimist to be honest Waghorn - for £4m I think he has shown that when he is on it and especially when he is CF he is worth the money, just in poor form at the moment Marriott - has confounded most of us with his failure to step up However with Frank in charge I think he was getting more out Holmes and Waghorn, and was starting to get something out of Marriott. How much of that is man management? How much of that is luck or timing ? How much of that is Form? Overall though agree that the glass is not full by any measure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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