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Fulham (A) vs Derby - Match Thread


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46 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

Roos is a very inexperienced player at this level.

Bogle is in only his second season.

Lowe his first real season at this level of playing regularly, he did have the loan with Aberdeen last season.

Davies, at his age after a year out to be our first choice and in a style that doesn't suit him. Big ask.

Forsyth to play two games in 4 days having missed a year in a position he has only recently played for the U23s.

Bielik, not many games at this level but you can see he is starting to get in his stride.

Evans, been in and out with injury the last the last two seasons. Never been the most mobile.

 To be going away to Fulham with that is asking for trouble. I doubt many teams in this league would have Davies as first choice, certainly not Forsyth. Yet we have both! 

I made similar comments when we had Clarke playing!

We can't expect to do much away from home until we have a defensive unit that understand each other and that is hardly Cocu's fault. 

As for our attackers. Misfiring. Waghorn has never been prolific in this league. Marriott has scored 1 this season. Martin just isn't getting the ball in areas to shoot. Lawrence has already equalled his best season. Holmes is not a goal scoring midfielder.

Our away form has been poor all year, not just this season. 

I say all the above, yet we should have been 1-0 up. Until we get the first goal away from home there will be too much pressure for our team to withstand, been poor for long enough that it has become a mentality issue also.

I accept all of the above and without raking over the loss of Keogh and also of the 3 loanees which I also understand why are we though left with that nucleus of a team when we have been challenging for promotion for the past umpteem seasons 

We still haven't shifted all of the deadwood - Anya springs immediately to mind - yet the first team picks don't seem to be radically any better then the players who can't get a game or have been moved on.

Can't see how we got ourselves in this situation or where the accountability lies for this.

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1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

I accept all of the above and without raking over the loss of Keogh and also of the 3 loanees which I also understand why are we though left with that nucleus of a team when we have been challenging for promotion for the past umpteem seasons 

We still haven't shifted all of the deadwood - Anya springs immediately to mind - yet the first team picks don't seem to be radically any better then the players who can't get a game or have been moved on.

Can't see how we got ourselves in this situation or where the accountability lies for this.

I mean, who isn't to blame?

Managers have come and gone, snakey went stoke, lamps went chelski, before that Mel was swinging his hammer at every manager after losing 3 on the trot.

The recruitment team are about as useless at finding talent as Stevie Wonder would be.

End of the day we've just been done over these past few seasons.

Don't help that a lot of fans expect 3 points every game. winning by 4 goals or more. And they want Cocu out after losing 1.

We'll be rate aslong as we get some stability.

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1 hour ago, BondJovi said:

Roos is a very inexperienced player at this level.

Bogle is in only his second season.

Lowe his first real season at this level of playing regularly, he did have the loan with Aberdeen last season.

Davies, at his age after a year out to be our first choice and in a style that doesn't suit him. Big ask.

Forsyth to play two games in 4 days having missed a year in a position he has only recently played for the U23s.

Bielik, not many games at this level but you can see he is starting to get in his stride.

Evans, been in and out with injury the last the last two seasons. Never been the most mobile.

 To be going away to Fulham with that is asking for trouble. I doubt many teams in this league would have Davies as first choice, certainly not Forsyth. Yet we have both! 

I made similar comments when we had Clarke playing!

We can't expect to do much away from home until we have a defensive unit that understand each other and that is hardly Cocu's fault. 

As for our attackers. Misfiring. Waghorn has never been prolific in this league. Marriott has scored 1 this season. Martin just isn't getting the ball in areas to shoot. Lawrence has already equalled his best season. Holmes is not a goal scoring midfielder.

Our away form has been poor all year, not just this season. 

I say all the above, yet we should have been 1-0 up. Until we get the first goal away from home there will be too much pressure for our team to withstand, been poor for long enough that it has become a mentality issue also.

Great analysis - puts our away results in context.

Give Cocu time and our team will look very different this time next season and will be much better for it. 

 

 

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On 26/11/2019 at 21:47, GenBr said:

I love Jack Marriott, but he hasnt exactly been prolific for us this season or last. He has been poor last few games as well. That is why he isnt starting.

And largely, the reason he isn't scoring is that he isn't starting. And several times when he has come on he has replaced Martin, with whom he is supposed to be building an understanding. They actually haven't had that many games together. We criticised Chris Martin for not scoring when he was either just on the bench or not at all, and only getting 5 minutes at the end of amatch we had already lost, and we did it to Will Hughes when he was either not playing, a sub or in  totally the wrong position.

If Jack gewts a run playing with Martin ,then we can judge him.

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10 hours ago, BondJovi said:

Roos is a very inexperienced player at this level.

Bogle is in only his second season.

Lowe his first real season at this level of playing regularly, he did have the loan with Aberdeen last season.

Davies, at his age after a year out to be our first choice and in a style that doesn't suit him. Big ask.

Forsyth to play two games in 4 days having missed a year in a position he has only recently played for the U23s.

Bielik, not many games at this level but you can see he is starting to get in his stride.

Evans, been in and out with injury the last the last two seasons. Never been the most mobile.

 To be going away to Fulham with that is asking for trouble. I doubt many teams in this league would have Davies as first choice, certainly not Forsyth. Yet we have both! 

I made similar comments when we had Clarke playing!

We can't expect to do much away from home until we have a defensive unit that understand each other and that is hardly Cocu's fault. 

As for our attackers. Misfiring. Waghorn has never been prolific in this league. Marriott has scored 1 this season. Martin just isn't getting the ball in areas to shoot. Lawrence has already equalled his best season. Holmes is not a goal scoring midfielder.

Our away form has been poor all year, not just this season. 

I say all the above, yet we should have been 1-0 up. Until we get the first goal away from home there will be too much pressure for our team to withstand, been poor for long enough that it has become a mentality issue also.

So what your saying is we’re crap ? Lol 

I say that tongue in cheek to a degree 

I really do question cocu and his man management 

The week We had car crash gate the following game we won I forget who it was ... but we won well minus Bennett and Lawrence who on the latter case had been gagging to be dropped with a number or pretty inept performances Since his Huddersfield brace 

im sat there thinking, great win... fans were buzzing, media spilling praise on the team everyone’s happy 

next game instead of sticking with the 11 that won and won well he brings Lawrence straight back in

im not sure what that does for the guy who got dropped for him or what it says to the squad but I can’t think its healthy 

larwnce for football reasons had done nothing to warrant his spot let alone his part in the scandle 

Marriott 

comes in against boro ... two up top ... we win ... we win well / convincingly 

two up top .. fans are buzzing about Goddard / Saunders style  Marriott/  Martin combo and rightly so 

go to forest and despite neither taking their chances we have options going forward and no matter the result we give a bloody good account of ourselves with the two occupying their back four and giving us a front foot to build on unlike our other inept and spineless away performances 

then .... we go back to one up bloody top 

what happpens another away day 3-0 drubbing

why has two up top not been given more legs when it’s clearly our best fit for the players we have available 

I just don’t get it and question what cocu is actually seeing in one up top ... and therefore question him 

Cos all I’m seeing is away drubbing after away drubbing after away drubbing with a lone striker and no outlet or support 


Disgruntled from bouncy annoying red dog land 

 

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Well that fight was not there and thats what most disappointing side of Derby I felt crying at the end thinking this not Derby I love and know but only lad that came out with any cridit for was morgan whitter lad he did make a fist of it on his own and for that he earn my respect I never judge young lads as they try there best but they need help from older players to help them learn. I hope cocu and rooney got a plan to drag us near top six. But I am finding it hard to keep sticking up for roos but he has to learn to catch the ball rather than punch it all the time but his desion making there third he tried to pass a ball that was never on but should curtis davies but for saturday I give selby his chance now we need to driving force in midfield .

Sorry for late replay I was at monday and today and wednesday I was tired and tonight I am so tired.

Please come on Derby fight back please I love this club with all my heart.

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It’s only football. No-one died.

It’s just a game. 

Ultimately It is of absolutely no importance whatsoever. It is as completely and utterly meaningless as the toss of a coin or the bounce of a ball. Forget it. 

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9 minutes ago, RamNut said:

It’s only football. No-one died.

It’s just a game. 

Ultimately It is of absolutely no importance whatsoever. It is as completely and utterly meaningless as the toss of a coin or the bounce of a ball. Forget it. 

 

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Football assumes varying levels of importance in each of our lives and I wouldn't presume to impose my world view of it on anyone else.

The bipolar nature of our performances this season has been very frustrating tho....which dcfc are we going to get in any game?

I can well imagine the upset caused if you have given up significant time and cost only to see a limp effort from the team. We only seem to be able to be competitive for about 10 mins.....?

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48 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Football assumes varying levels of importance in each of our lives and I wouldn't presume to impose my world view of it on anyone else.

The bipolar nature of our performances this season has been very frustrating tho....which dcfc are we going to get in any game?

I can well imagine the upset caused if you have given up significant time and cost only to see a limp effort from the team. We only seem to be able to be competitive for about 10 mins.....?

I agree. I love going to away games but would think seriously about going at the moment. 

Our set up and attitude is so negative and passive. 

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17 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

And largely, the reason he isn't scoring is that he isn't starting. And several times when he has come on he has replaced Martin, with whom he is supposed to be building an understanding. They actually haven't had that many games together. We criticised Chris Martin for not scoring when he was either just on the bench or not at all, and only getting 5 minutes at the end of amatch we had already lost, and we did it to Will Hughes when he was either not playing, a sub or in  totally the wrong position.

If Jack gewts a run playing with Martin ,then we can judge him.

possibly Cocu gets more chance to see them together in order to make a judgement don't you think?

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A bit Johhny come lately again - my HGV job, and recently taking on synth/keyboard player in the church music team, but here we go:

Our main problem is that we are suffering a strong dose of Lamparditis. Just how many weeks was it before the season-start that Cocu finally arrived? And as with the Billy Davies promotion season, but for entirely different reasons, before we had set foot into the transfer market, all the good'uns had gone, and we werer pretty much stuck with what we had got  plus a couple of "all right, you'll do" signings.

Actually we started pretty well on Tuesday and looked fairly sharp. But it wasn't the goal which killed us, neither was it Tom's air shot. It was when Waghorn decided he could get the ball under control with his foot when the ball was two-feet above his head. Whether Bogle didn't shout, or was ignored by Waggy, the striker stopped the ball from floating right into Bogle's path for a wack into the net, and the chance was gone. And it was all over from then  onwards. I suspect that Wagghorn went for the ball to try and make a point, to try and prove something. He hasn't been doing well in front of goal, even with the ball in general at times, and desperately wanted to achive something.

There is the much discussed Roos factor, including how he keeps getting picked. But he has overall been good with the ball at his feet, so his good distribution fits Cocu's bill. Besides, it is common for Dutch keepers to punch the ball (or flap at it) and stay on their line, so Roos is only doing what he has grown up with, and with which Cocu is familiar. The biggerst issue was the third goal, because Kelle threw away any credentials he had got by smaking the ball at Beilik instead of a simple side-footed pass out to Bogle.

People have mentioned Chris Martin's attitude and body language, but some of that will be to do with another observation of our more forward players in that they weren't pressing the opposition. In the Forest match I noticed that Martin was doing the press, but because he was on his own, it was easy to play round him, which he found frustrating. I would think most of us would do to if it kept happening to us all match long. Maybe that was a factor, as was the fact that there were very few balls passed to him which he could do anything with. His link-up play has been the hallmark of his return, but if he doesn't have the runners moving around him, it doesn't work well. Marriott came on way too late to have much of an impact, and is still getting only very limited time to work alongside, or just off Chris Martin, yet we are writing him of as a failure. It would be really helpful to know just why Cocu keeps playing him seperately to Chris Martin, but that would probably the wrong thing to go public with. Dammitt!

A good thing to come out of all this is that we have maintained our ability to play the ball aroung the team well, even though we might not be able to find the killer final pass yet. Only a few games ago we could barely get one pass to a team mate before giving the  ball away, so we have made real progress there.

I know that the squad we have should be able to do better, especially with the way the EFL is this year, but with the start to the season we had we are pretty much where I at least thought we would be about now. But we still hanker after the success which we all long for, despite having accepted that this season would be one of doing what we could. I remember making a declaration that we be understanding of the failures of the squad because of what Frank and Chelsea did to us, and then go for it next season. Sadly, it is all to easy to up our expectation little by little, without realising we are doing it, and then we crash into a brick wall when we are beaten by a squad that cost many multiples of what ours was assembled for. Even so, we had the potential to get something out of Tuesday night if things ahad gone slightly differently   .................................. but they didn't.

So instead of exasperation, lets be glad that we have sorted much of our interplay out, and then see what Cocu has worked on next.

Cheer up, guys, there's always next season.

And there's also the next match - lets get our cheering boots on and give the Hoops a good run for their money. 

COME ON YOU RAMS!

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On 26/11/2019 at 20:58, Coconut said:

Yep, bring back Taribo! Or did you mean Paul McGrath?

Seriously though, have you forgotten all of the defensive collapses that happened in tough games while he was here? There were plenty of games where we conceded 3 or 4 and he offered no particular organisation or resistance.

Paul McGrath obviously, what a wonderful player. But Keogh was pretty good though at times let's not forget

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