TigerTedd Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: This was discussed with relation to all our 'strikers' in another thread. If you go along with xG stats then Martin and Lawrence are exceeding them slightly but lots of others aren't. Marriott missed three reasonable chances on Saturday and his xG stats are in the negative. I think it was @JfR that posted them and understands them better. His conclusion was we needed a couple of 'game changers' recruited. My take was we need more goals from players other than our 'strikers'. If only we could sign someone like Wayne Rooney. Not Rooney specifically, cos obviously that would be silly, he’d never come to the championship. But someone like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Rambe33 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 For what its worth I thought Martin should have got a clean strike on goal whereas I thought Marriott's chance in the second half was more of a half chance that he snatched at. However it was the kind of chance he was putting away last year and we have come to expect him to put away as well. He needs to play a run of games in the team in my opinion. He benefits from sustained runs in the team and has never been a "good sub". In my opinion from what we've watched so far this season we are abetter side with the 4-4-2 diamond in place. this may change when Rooney arrives but until then I think we need to keep him and Martin/Waggy up top. We've created more in the last 2 games than we had done in the previous 5. We may just have to endure for a while. The international break is welcomed but we need to get something from the Preston game (not going to be easy) before a very tough test away to Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, TigerTedd said: If only we could sign someone like Wayne Rooney. Not Rooney specifically, cos obviously that would be silly, he’d never come to the championship. But someone like him. Lol! As if! ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfc4ever Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Happy with Marriott he just needs a goal and it will kick start a good run for him and us.After Lawrence he is our best player for excitement and ability with the ball.Stick Rooney in the mix we won’t be short on goals.It will be the defence that needs tinkering with not our strike force come January. keep the faith all will be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 49 minutes ago, Curtains said: Dean Saunders and Marriott are you joking. Saunders was 10 times better Did I mention either players level of performance?? Wind your neck back in!!! I was merely pointing out that both of them play a similar role, the little in a Big man/Little man combo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: Did I mention either players level of performance?? Wind your neck back in!!! I was merely pointing out that both of them play a similar role, the little in a Big man/Little man combo... You might be an old fart one day lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadlad Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 This may have already been covered but:- Goals scored = 18 only 2 more than bottom of the table Barnsley. Goals conceded = 21 only 4 more than the top 2 teams (17) who have both scored around 30 goals so far. Those stats don’t lie, we are painfully short of goals 18 in 16 games is poor in any division. Against the gumps we had 4 or 5 good opportunities but couldn’t put them away. This must be a concern, if it continues over the season we could be in trouble. Who and where are our 20 goal a season strikers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, chadlad said: Who and where are our 20 goal a season strikers? 2 were up front and the other was on the bench I think Patience grasshopper - It takes time for a team to gel and get used to the changes asked for by a manager - Especially one as technical as it seems Cocu is - We had the advantage with Lampard that it seems he mainly just stuck the players on the pitch and trusted them to attack - Cocu obviously wants to play in a specific way and it's going to take a bit more getting used to I think the last two/three games the team seems to be 'getting it' and we've gone from creating next to nothing to a few decent chances - If we keep plugging away we'll get there and someone will be on the end of a good spanking before Rooney even comes in And then we'll have Rooney so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 They will come good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 This is a striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 27 minutes ago, chadlad said: This may have already been covered but:- Goals scored = 18 only 2 more than bottom of the table Barnsley. Goals conceded = 21 only 4 more than the top 2 teams (17) who have both scored around 30 goals so far. Those stats don’t lie, we are painfully short of goals 18 in 16 games is poor in any division... On 10/11/2019 at 15:12, JfR said: It depends how you want to measure it, but if we measure it as difference between xG and actual goals scored, we have 17 goals from an expected 20.95 (neither including the own goal in the Luton game as that wouldn't be included in xG calculation), which breaks down like this over the season so far: If anyone's curious, Forest have 20 goals from an xG of 17.29, so are currently more or less the exact opposite to us in front of goal. In terms of individual performances, Infogol also has xG stats for each individual player, which breaks down like this: So if we use this system, then Lawrence (+1.65), Martin (+0.68), Shinnie (+0.55) and Paterson (+0.28) are the only players to have overperformed in their conversion rates, while Waghorn (-1.72), Dowell (-1.27), Marriott (-0.89) and Bennett (-0.64) have the worst conversion rates. The bigger issue, though, is that there's an overarching trend to underperformance. Most of the players are only slightly underperforming. This would usually be fine as those players would be offset by players slightly overperforming, but this largely hasn't happened so far. To give you an example, it shouldn't matter that Bogle has no goals and a -0.28 difference, because Paterson balances that out by overperforming slightly and having 1 goal from a +0.28 difference. You would hope to see this over the whole team, but currently this hasn't happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Some of the problem with Jack Marriott is that he hasn't had much matchplay, and until recently has only come on towards the end of the match, and has even been played as target man. I don't know if Cocu has noticed yet, but Jack isn't big enough to be a target man. And he has only had two matches playing next to Chris Martin, so this combination needs time to gell. And on Saturday against forest, once we had made the mistake of taking Beilik out of midfield, the whole of our midfield stayed deep, creating a huge gap between themselves and the strikers. So there were no midfielders running through, and no-one helping Chris Martin carry out the press. So Chris would press, only to have the ball passed around him because no-one else was up there pressing. So with Martin and Marriott isolated, it is no surprise that they were tempted to snatch at their chances. It is the Derby way. We did it with Chris Martin, I think in between his loan spells, when he kept being kept on the bench until the game was gone from us because we didn't have anyone up front who could hold the ball up (spot the irony), or he was played out on the wing (!). Then we all moaned because he wasn't scoring! We did it with Will Hughes. We had a couple neanderthal managers who either didn't play him, or brought him on at the end when we were already losing because we didn't have anyone to make the midfield tick, or played him as defensive midfielder, when he clearly isn't one of those. We did it, and maybe are still doing it with Tom Lawrence, playing him out wide when he isn't a winger. He's a number 10, which is where we have seen the best from him. We did the same with Simon Dawkins who was beautiful to watch when he was on the ball. We kept sticking him out wide when he too was better in the middle, playing in the Will Hughes "in the hole" role. And on the rare occasions Dawkins was played there, he ran the match. We did it with Georgi Kinkladze, a fantastic player when in the middle of the park behind the strikers. So we played him out on there wing mostly, or when he was in midfield, he got neck-ache from trying to watch the ball as it flew about 100 miles above his head on its way to the opposing goalkeeper's arms. Or kept him on the bench until we were losing because we hadn't got anybody on the pitch who could control the midfield. We played him in his best position against Aston Villa and he absolutely destroyed them, only to be benched for the next match. So lets give Jack and Chris a run of matches together for a start, along with keeping Beilik in midfield where he drives us forwards and keeps the midfield in touch with the strikers. Please! Pretty Please! Pretty Please with a cherry on top! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Millenniumram said: Martins a good player but he’s gotta start taking his chances. Gone quite a few games without a goal now, and we can’t be unable to rely on our number 9 to score goals Like we are atm. Missed a good chance against forest, and a couple against boro. I’d stick with him and work on it in the training ground, but you could make an argument for a change up front. Gotta be more clinical than we are at the moment. Negative as always . Strikers who take every chance are non-existent , even Jaimie Vardy misses chances. How many goals has Marriott scored since he came back ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 19 minutes ago, Curtains said: This is a striker. And who did he play alongside?? It ain't rocket science. Our midfield is where the problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 42 minutes ago, Curtains said: This is a striker. ...and a cracking mullet anorl......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 27 minutes ago, DRBee said: Negative as always . Strikers who take every chance are non-existent , even Jaimie Vardy misses chances. How many goals has Marriott scored since he came back ? How on Earth is that a negative post?! All I’ve done is say our strikers need to be taking more chances, hardly a stretch when none of them have scored in about a month! I know we ain’t gonna take every chance, but taking a few of them would be helpful. I’m not calling them all poo or saying to bin them all, far from it. In fact, if you’d actually read my post you’ll see I said to keep Martin in the team, because he’s a good player and hes been playing very well in the main. Just saying as a number 9 you need to be finishing off chances better. And that goes for our strikers in general as well, including Marriott who I’ve written a number of separate posts on because I have more long term concerns about him. I’m not slamming the form of our strikers, I’m just saying we need a greater goal contribution from them. This is exactly what I was on about in the other thread. You post any sort of criticism on here and you get someone jumping down your neck, not offering any sort of debate, but just branding you negative. Is any post on here that’s not singing everyone’s praises counted as being a moaning bar steward now? Sometimes I wonder whether I should just call this place quits sometimes, because sometimes there’s just a lack of any sort of calm respectful debate anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 34 minutes ago, DavesaRam said: Some of the problem with Jack Marriott is that he hasn't had much matchplay... He's had more than enough, if rumour on here is anything to go by! ? ……………………………………………………………….May the fallen rest in peace. May those that return, have the fortune to live in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addingham Ram Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 51 minutes ago, Curtains said: This is a striker. A true Derby Legend (even though he left Derby for Dirty Leeds). What would you give for a new 2019 model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: He's had more than enough, if rumour on here is anything to go by! ? ……………………………………………………………….May the fallen rest in peace. May those that return, have the fortune to live in peace. Love you, Mucker! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 49 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: So if we use this system, then Lawrence (+1.65), Martin (+0.68), Shinnie (+0.55) and Paterson (+0.28) are the only players to have overperformed in their conversion rates, while Waghorn (-1.72), Dowell (-1.27), Marriott (-0.89) and Bennett (-0.64) have the worst conversion rates. @Millenniumram according to the xG stats above the non-goal scoring doesn't all lie with the strikers, but because too many of the other players are underperforming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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