Reggie Greenwood Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, rammieib said: Possibly because the clubs actions are deeming drink driving as a lesser offence than sitting in the back of a car. Possibly because the club are putting pound coins behind their decision making. (Not Keoghs salary but by not sacking the other two because they hold a value in the clubs books). Possibly because they have released a pathetic statement which contradicts their actions. So whilst the club hasn't legally done anything wrong IMO they are morally and ethically wrong in my eyes by their actions due to my first point above. The cases between Bennett and Lawrence and Keogh are totally different hence why different outcomes. Maybe Mel and the club did want to sack B & L but legally and by the terms of their contracts they were unable to do so for the offence of D D. I have not seen any other club sack a player for DD. They were punished the maximum allowable maybe not as much as the club would have liked to. Keogh has in effect apparently ( not knowing the exact terms of his contract ) in the eyes of the club broken his contract. It appears the club could have sacked him immediately but waited until the outcome of the Investigation and allowed him to have his Operation before any action. The club have tried to be generous and fair to Keogh and offered him an alternative to the termination of his contract which he has declined. No morals no different treatment. Different cases different outcomes an the club has punished all parties the maximum they are allowed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, TommyPowel said: Oh did i dream that both Lawrence and Bennett had both said in a public the they were sorry and would accept any punishment handed down to them? You didn't. But, until we know the reasons as to why Keogh hasn't made a statement, we can't judge. The club are clearly extremely unhappy with him, so they might have barred him from saying anything publicly. He might not be able to make a statement because of some legal issue that we don't know about. He might even be an unrepentant Bamford, but then so too might Bennett and Lawrence, who could quite possibly be hiding behind club-drafted statements whilst laughing themselves silly. I'm pretty confident that that isn't the case but, the point is, we don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Trav Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 This is going to get me a lot of stick but I feel the club have massively cokked up here. I for one was hoping our rich will stay and one day manage us. As a young CB at school vidic and keogh were my idols. Vidic was my idol as a cb with his willing to put his body on the line. And keogh was my idol from pure sportsmanship ability and passion and everything. He was the first name I got on the back of my shirt. My favourite ever Derby player. Not the most gifted or anything but a true grafter and a lovely guy. I’m heartbroken by the news. The club need to think about getting him back either that be as a player or a coach because he is invaluable to this club ThePrisoner, ramjit, King Kevin and 11 others 4 2 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Big Trav said: The club need to think about getting him back either that be as a player or a coach because he is invaluable to this club I don't think they do. He got offered the chance to stay on reduced terms, if he cared about the club as people were implying he would accept it. He's never publicly apologised for the night, and seemingly hasn't taken any responsibility for it. I don't know how Keogh is coming out of this positively. Spanish, Abu Dhabi Ram, archram and 9 others 5 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 10 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said: The cases between Bennett and Lawrence and Keogh are totally different hence why different outcomes. Maybe Mel and the club did want to sack B & L but legally and by the terms of their contracts they were unable to do so for the offence of D D. I have not seen any other club sack a player for DD. They were punished the maximum allowable maybe not as much as the club would have liked to. Keogh has in effect apparently ( not knowing the exact terms of his contract ) in the eyes of the club broken his contract. It appears the club could have sacked him immediately but waited until the outcome of the Investigation and allowed him to have his Operation before any action. The club have tried to be generous and fair to Keogh and offered him an alternative to the termination of his contract which he has declined. No morals no different treatment. Different cases different outcomes an the club has punished all parties the maximum they are allowed to. Trust me that the club were well within their rights to sack TL and MB. Their actions have bought the club into disrepute. Enough content in the 30 plus pages here to show you why. The cases are different, agreed, but it's the clubs decision on the level of punishment to dish out. They just cannot admit that publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 25 minutes ago, rammieib said: Possibly because the clubs actions are deeming drink driving as a lesser offence than sitting in the back of a car. Possibly because the club are putting pound coins behind their decision making. (Not Keoghs salary but by not sacking the other two because they hold a value in the clubs books). Possibly because they have released a pathetic statement which contradicts their actions. So whilst the club hasn't legally done anything wrong IMO they are morally and ethically wrong in my eyes by their actions due to my first point above. And/Or possibly his actions towards staff and customers whilst being employed by DCFC in a drunken state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 16 minutes ago, ramjit said: Wasn’t it work related me owl mucker Coincidentally, my post above the one now quoted questions that very thing. Were these later evening shenanigans still part of the club event? Indeed, was the early evening and/or daytime events even classed as an official club event, seeing as not all playing staff were present? Maybe it was an informal get-together by folk who coincidentally do work at the same place? Yes, backed by the club, but were they "at work"? For a footballer, I'd take the term "injured at work" to infer during a match, or training etc. Preferably wearing studded footwear and a ball within close proximity... or at the very least, a cone or two to run around! Not late in the evening, in a public tavern, long after the club-provided "official" transport has departed, and certainly not in a private vehicle, being driven by someone who was subsequently charged and punished for drink driving, all whilst allegedly being intoxicated himself. I doubt the club were even aware of this at the time, so it appears they were most certainly not "at work"? My opinion is... and that's all it is... is that in this instance, Keogh was not "injured at work"... unlike Shaun Barker, as a perfect example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: Devils advocate here... I'm not even certain that bit is factual, is it? Maybe the bowling (originally planned to be Foot-Golf) was an official club event. Maybe also the early evening meal? But even that may not be the case... some players were not present, and at least one is known to have been spending the evening being given a piggy-back by his missus on the streets of No**ingham during this time. That hints at it possibly being a voluntary... and informal... event, to me. But the "After 8 Club"? After the arranged transport home? Would this be seen as an official club event still? Was Keogh therefore still "on duty" as club captain (If he was at all, during the day)? Were the club even aware that these guys were still there, at this later hour, never mind that some were drinking above acceptable levels? Just shows how little we mere mortals know! It might sound a bit high and mighty but a true leader's role is not 9 till 5. He'd got junior and less experienced guys around him and on the face of it not once did it occur to him the risks everybody was running. This may not have been an isolated incident. I guess many of us who have managed teams (work or sport) have some experience of when to call it a day for the good of everyone. Keo much as I valued him was more interested in having fun to think of the greater good. Big mistake but in the bigger scheme it isn't really going to make him miss out on much in life, still a multi millionaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambam2014 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Football is not like any other workplace. Very few of us as employees are also assets of the company in financial terms. DCFC have a very reduced squad this season, and whether we admit it or not, are not playing well enough to be considered out of a possible relegation battle this year. All three of those idiots involved could have been considered as committing "gross misconduct" for their actions. 2 of them are still fit enough to carry out their contractual obligations, 1 of them is not. I think all three could have been dismissed for their actions, however in their current position Derby need experienced players to try and get results. Whatever we think of them, personally i would not have been sorry to see all three go!! IF, and it is IF, RK has turned down the club's offer to get paid a substantial salary whilst he is rehabilitated also at the clubs expense, then how can anyone have any sympathy with that. It smacks of total arrogance and lack of judgement. Not qualities I would look for in a captain of my team Not one of us that posts on here knows the exact facts about what happened that night or since. Not many of us, if any at all, are experts in Football finances or Employment Law. All we can do is support the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Spanish said: It might sound a bit high and mighty but a true leader's role is not 9 till 5. He'd got junior and less experienced guys around him and on the face of it not once did it occur to him the risks everybody was running. This may not have been an isolated incident. I guess many of us who have managed teams (work or sport) have some experience of when to call it a day for the good of everyone. Keo much as I valued him was more interested in having fun to think of the greater good. Big mistake but in the bigger scheme it isn't really going to make him miss out on much in life, still a multi millionaire Totally agree. The main reason why Keogh got just as much "stick" from me as the other nobs, when all this first kicked off. It even spread to Hudds, once the video became public knowledge. I also felt he "should have known better" and should have shown more responsibility as an apparent "senior pro". I do hope that you don't consider my previous post to have been my opinion. I had hoped that the starting line would have covered my arse on that score! (Insert winking emoji!) Either way, I would still argue that showing a professional and responsible attitude throughout a works event... and beyond... does still not equate to Keogh being "injured at work", in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 The moral of this story is don't let yourself be driven by somebody who is too drunk to steer a car straight. Let the lawyers sort out the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Smyth_18 said: I am absolutely astounded that Keogh feels let down by Derby County. The man was in a privileged position to Captain a professional football club. A job dreams are made of. There's a small matter of £25,000 a WEEK to add to that. He should have been leading that night whether he's on the pitch or not. Yet somehow he got into the car with a drunk team mate, who is also mentally unstable. He then got injured when that car crashed. Leaving him unable to play for over a year. Somehow, this man feels he deserves to be payed the same amount as usual, as well as having thousands pumped into his rehabilitation. A Bamford of the highest order. Good riddance. It depends on the ins and outs of the contract, if theyve said to take a pay cut of a third of the original value but you get to use all Derbys rehab equipment plus gain opportunities on the media side then even that feels like it would be hard to turn down, you’d atleast consider it. To reject it outright suggests they’d designed a contract so they could sack him like they have Also maybe it’s a sense of pride after having this be played out in the papers rather than behind closed doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 46 minutes ago, rammieib said: Possibly because the clubs actions are deeming drink driving as a lesser offence than sitting in the back of a car. Possibly because the club are putting pound coins behind their decision making. (Not Keoghs salary but by not sacking the other two because they hold a value in the clubs books). Possibly because they have released a pathetic statement which contradicts their actions. So whilst the club hasn't legally done anything wrong IMO they are morally and ethically wrong in my eyes by their actions due to my first point above. Fair enough but I don’t agree with your viewpoint rammieib 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 No thanks. Dont need his influence at the club anymore. He could have stayed and chose not to. He used to be my favourite player, but not anymore. If we need to bring in an ex CB as a coach i will take Buxton instead thanks. Andicis and RoyMac5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I will miss his arms-stretched-out-wide shrug as he looks at someone else as we concede again. Taribo, Andicis and GenBr 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 42 minutes ago, SIWY said: He’s not actually done anything against the law or against club rules though has he? Sure, it wasn’t right of him to get in the back of the car with a drunk driver, but the accident wasn’t his fault seeing as he wasn’t behind the wheel. Keogh just made a poor decision (easily done when drunk) and has come worst off out of everyone! I understand I am massively biased towards Keogh and it probably shows in my opinion on the matter, but hypothetically, if he was injured in any other drink drive related accident (say his wife was at the wheel), would he have had to take a reduced contract? Or is he being made a scapegoat here because of his status as club captain? I genuinely can’t help but feel like it’s the latter. Take it you are not familiar with employment contracts if this has to be spelt out to you. Perhaps look at at your own and see how your employers most likely have a reach that extends beyond the workplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, ThePrisoner said: I will miss his arms-stretched-out-wide shrug as he looks at someone else as we concede again. There’s nothing like a quick knee to the groin, especially when your opponent is already mortally wounded. ? Mucker1884 and 1967Ram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Don't think I have ever seen a Derby player give more on a pitch than Keogh. Every single game he would come off that pitch drenched in sweat. Those saying he could have stayed if he took a big wage cut need to answer why he should get a big wage cut and TL and MB don't! One rule for one.. Probably why Keogh didn't agree to it. From what we know he didn't even commit an unlawful act he was just unlucky to be the one who got the bad injury from it! CROSSWORD and taffyram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 41 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: You didn't. But, until we know the reasons as to why Keogh hasn't made a statement, we can't judge. The club are clearly extremely unhappy with him, so they might have barred him from saying anything publicly. He might not be able to make a statement because of some legal issue that we don't know about. He might even be an unrepentant Bamford, but then so too might Bennett and Lawrence, who could quite possibly be hiding behind club-drafted statements whilst laughing themselves silly. I'm pretty confident that that isn't the case but, the point is, we don't know. The point i was making im pretty sure Keogh has never said sorry etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Ewe Ram said: Because no decent taxi driver would accept a passenger who is incapable of coherent conversation are you speaking from experience lol lol lol Ewe Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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