Hanny Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 In reality the best way to broach this subject would be a live discussion to best get clarity on statements without the hinderance of time lapse response / poor typing / length of typing needed to get across simple ideas / etc. However here we are. I’m unsure of what to expect from starting a topic that is more of an ongoing saga with numerous variables, as opposed to a one off pram-toy-toss argument over which Striker to start. I’m also busy in life, as you are, so will not be able to respond as often as I’d like. So I hope this can be a bit of a slow burn discussion over time. I guess my hope with this topic is to instill a little confidence, hope, and stability in a supporter base that seem to be teetering on the edge of a (for lack of a better term) breakdown of reality. Derby are, and should be a Mid-Table team for this year and next (make moves if need be to fight for promotion in the 21/22 season). I think letting Cocu sort the squad and tactics over (at least) two seasons is the bare minimum can be done to see if a plan can take hold. What’s the harm in waiting if we are improving (which takes more time than a few months)? I can hear some of you already rolling your eyes...we should always be pushing for promotion...We belong there! Yes. I believe Derby would fit well in the Prem. But let’s do it with intention and understanding...not spray and pray. If we allow Cocu time to fail (because that’s what is needed to discover any plausible path forward), I postulate we will look comfortable to survive the Prem come the 22/23 season (assuming 21/22 is the push year). Now. It will take two years plus of hair pulling confusion games (not all games...but fail we must to see growth), and I hope you all can stomach that...I know I can. I will stop here on my first post. As I said, I hope this can become a slow burn discussion. I’ve opened with a very basic; we should give Cocu time and space to fail thesis. Let’s discuss why that would be good...or not good. Simples. COYR! P.S.: Of course as a supporter I will always be happy to take a flight up the table with a dramatic playoff screamer. But- would actually prefer intention and understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh n Bake Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 You were doing so well until you said simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Toppers?!?!? IS THAT YOU?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanny Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, philmycocu said: What? Perfect! The type of deep dive retort that gets a discussion going...thanks mate. 3 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said: You were doing so well until you said simples! I like the term simples. It’s easy/light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Mid table is acceptable this year. Next year, we have to be pushing in or around the playoffs for me. I understand the arguments around being patient and giving time, but really, in the Championship you only have to improve 5% from where we currently are to be challenging the top 6. If we're improving as we should be, it shouldn't be a tough ask to have us in and around the playoffs next year. This league isn't very good. The football also needs to be more cohesive and less muddled, we're winning or getting things out of games which we have no right to. Some people might look at this as a positive, getting results when not playing well and all that, but at some point the luck has to run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 I just think we can't pick and choose when we go up, it'll happen when it happens and we have to make the most of the opportunity when it's there. While I agree that this season we're not favoured for promotion, anything can happen and we shouldn't write it off. We're currently only 4 points off top 6 and there's still plenty of time to get it together and achieve something special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 What do we want? A season of improvement, building the foundations for success. When do we want it? Never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Sheff Utd straight up through the divisions, Villa going high-risk and spending beyond their means....Newcastle dropping-down and retaining their players, Sunderland being well off the pace and rolling the dice with once in a lifetime Keane success... Building steadily (ala Norwich) isn't as simple as it seems, and quickly becomes stagnating. I would give Cocu time, but we do need to see improvement in style, points and progress this season and a real push next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, Chester40 said: Sheff Utd straight up through the divisions, Villa going high-risk and spending beyond their means....Newcastle dropping-down and retaining their players, Sunderland being well off the pace and rolling the dice with once in a lifetime Keane success... Building steadily (ala Norwich) isn't as simple as it seems, and quickly becomes stagnating. I would give Cocu time, but we do need to see improvement in style, points and progress this season and a real push next. In my opinion mate we wont see a Phillip Cocu team until he's brought in his players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I dont see any plausible reason why next season should be mid table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I like the word "postulate". Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Mucker1884 said: I like the word "postulate". Thank you. Me too, I gather it is also used in science as a noun "Mathematical formulation of the postulates 1. First Postulate ( Principle of relativity ). At the heart of Einstein's derivation of the 'Lorentz transformation' lies obviously the speed of light postulate." They spelt Lawrence wrong though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Mucker1884 said: I like the word "postulate". Thank you. Sounds like something @Owd miner would say to his postman when he doesn't turn up on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Steve How Hard? said: Sounds like something @Owd miner would say to his postman when he doesn't turn up on time. summat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Football cant be planned as such imo. Some things just work other things don't. I mean if this team are as talented as they themselves think they are then maybe, just maybe the only thing missing is a senior figure, a leader, someone to be the focus in the dressing room, someone who says we can and we will achieve rather than just drifting along...…………..Enter Mr Rooney. The whole squad need to have belief and a desire to do better, too many think they have achieved just by playing for DCFC. DCFC is a premier league club its just the team that isn't...….YET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 15 hours ago, Andicis said: Mid table is acceptable this year. Next year, we have to be pushing in or around the playoffs for me. I understand the arguments around being patient and giving time, but really, in the Championship you only have to improve 5% from where we currently are to be challenging the top 6. If we're improving as we should be, it shouldn't be a tough ask to have us in and around the playoffs next year. This league isn't very good. The football also needs to be more cohesive and less muddled, we're winning or getting things out of games which we have no right to. Some people might look at this as a positive, getting results when not playing well and all that, but at some point the luck has to run out. agreed, safety and no chance of playoff with 2 weeks to go would not be a bad place to be for a change. Spring board to a long closed season with a quality pre season thoughtfully organised and hit the ground running with a fresh team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanny Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 I agree building slowly is not easy, nor is shooting up the table (Sheff Utd/Villa High Risk/etc). Catching lightning in a bottle can happen of course. But isn't the most likely form of success found in building more slowly? I'll try and keep my responses on message with the title. I see it as a great service to Derby, if the team keeps Cocu (his philosophies, player choices, tactical shifts) even if that means mid table finishes this and next year. I imagine come the start of the 22/23 season (which in my mind is the challenge season) this team will have maybe three of its current starters (Bogle/Bielik/Lawrence*). Hopefully a bunch of youth (either from our camp or brought in), and of course a few signings. My point. For building slowly to work- massive changes need to happen. And that takes time, and more then likely, failure (I class Derby failure as mid table). But failure is essential. I suppose some folks may disagree with my take on failure. Regardless, I'm am more then happy to see this team struggle to find its feet over the next couple seasons...if the plan is to find a common path forward (keeping Cocu/etc.). COYR *I included Lawrence only because I think he is the most talented player on the team. I understand the argument with his choices recently...and could very well see him off the team in the near future. However, on pure skill with the ball...he is a class above the rest. It has always been consistency issues with his game. If he finds some of that consistency...he can help, a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCG Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Why not just make every season a "transition" season? Let's face it the last 10 have been! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Our squad is of top eight standard. Let us see what Santa brings and hoe the Rooney pp lays. Scraping into top six is a realistic possibility if the defence tightens up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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