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Charlton Athletic (A) Match Thread


Bwash_Ram

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8 hours ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Here we go someone try to pass off some thing that is self evident as a simple conspiracy. Did our players play with any passion or pride even at the very start of the match....no they didn’t. The majority of the players had the same “ couldn’t care less attitude” I doubt that they all got out of the wrong side of the bed on Saturday morning. There’s one thing that does bind our players together and that is they don’t appear happy in their work for reasons that, as yet, are unclear to us. 

Our players do that every season though for about the past 10 years. People are always accusing them of not being happy, not caring or lacking effort or the managers lost the dressing room every single season. This is the Derby Way - nothing unusual about how the players were at Charlton compared to any other season.

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38 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Our players do that every season though for about the past 10 years. People are always accusing them of not being happy, not caring or lacking effort or the managers lost the dressing room every single season. This is the Derby Way - nothing unusual about how the players were at Charlton compared to any other season.

Our post Xmas decline has happened even earlier this season  , we can’t afford to drop 6 places in the league in February or we are looking at relegation.

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1 hour ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Our post Xmas decline has happened even earlier this season  , we can’t afford to drop 6 places in the league in February or we are looking at relegation.

Don't be ridiculous. We've just come off a run of 5 games unbeaten. Just because we lose one game doesn't mean we have suddenly reverted to our usual post Christmas collapse. West Brom, Swansea, Forest and Bristol are the only teams who have lost less games than us so far this season and neither West Brom nor Swansea looked anything special when we played them.

We have awful games where the players look like they have given up every season before and after Christmas regardless of who the manager is. Happened for Lampard, Rowett, Clement, Pearson, McClaren and Wassall and now happens with Cocu as well. 

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10 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Don't be ridiculous. We've just come off a run of 5 games unbeaten. Just because we lose one game doesn't mean we have suddenly reverted to our usual post Christmas collapse. West Brom, Swansea, Forest and Bristol are the only teams who have lost less games than us so far this season and neither West Brom nor Swansea looked anything special when we played them.

We have awful games where the players look like they have given up every season before and after Christmas regardless of who the manager is. Happened for Lampard, Rowett, Clement, Pearson, McClaren and Wassall and now happens with Cocu as well. 

This.

1 reason why we need a mahoosive shakeup, rebuild and start over.

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23 hours ago, RamNut said:

you’ve lost me there.

the timing of FL’s departure is as much our fault as their’s. The summer transfer activity was certainly down to us. We knew where the gaps were and we missed some absolute rippers. squad mentality - or lack of - is also within our gift to sort. It’s been a bizarre few months, but surely most of the present difficulty is down to poor decision making close to home?

Really? How so?

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51 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Don't be ridiculous. We've just come off a run of 5 games unbeaten. Just because we lose one game doesn't mean we have suddenly reverted to our usual post Christmas collapse. West Brom, Swansea, Forest and Bristol are the only teams who have lost less games than us so far this season and neither West Brom nor Swansea looked anything special when we played them.

We have awful games where the players look like they have given up every season before and after Christmas regardless of who the manager is. Happened for Lampard, Rowett, Clement, Pearson, McClaren and Wassall and now happens with Cocu as well. 

I don't think you have really been paying attention it isn't just the last game, but the Charlton game does typify our recent performances, we were extremely lucky to beat a poor  Luton team, Charlton were never going to score the first goal for us.  We were unbeaten but with far too many draws, I am not putting the blame on Cocu the poor guy hasn't had a chance yet. I do question the players commitment and professionalism. I was using the Annual Post Xmas decline to point out that that we are normally a little further up the table than we are now and if we suffer our usual Annual Post Xmas decline then we could be in trouble.

I return to my original point what has happened to make the players play as if they didn't care, we already know about the Lawrence and Bennett issues so no need to rehash them. You would have thought that the players reaction to the Lawrence and Bennett issues would have been to go out and show the fans what professional footballers can do but their reaction is exactly the opposite.

Why?

 

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14 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

I don't think you have really been paying attention it isn't just the last game, but the Charlton game does typify our recent performances, we were extremely lucky to beat a poor  Luton team, Charlton were never going to score the first goal for us.  We were unbeaten but with far too many draws, I am not putting the blame on Cocu the poor guy hasn't had a chance yet. I do question the players commitment and professionalism. I was using the Annual Post Xmas decline to point out that that we are normally a little further up the table than we are now and if we suffer our usual Annual Post Xmas decline then we could be in trouble.

I return to my original point what has happened to make the players play as if they didn't care, we already know about the Lawrence and Bennett issues so no need to rehash them. You would have thought that the players reaction to the Lawrence and Bennett issues would have been to go out and show the fans what professional footballers can do but their reaction is exactly the opposite.

Why?

 

I disagree that we were lucky to beat Luton. We were the better team even if not by much. We haven't been Lampard or McClaren free flowing football so far, but the only games I've felt we were truly awful were Leeds and the two London games.

On your main point I am agreeing with you though. Especially after the drinking incident it definitely makes me question their professionalism for a lot of them. Maybe these drinking sessions aren't a regular occurrence, but somehow I doubt it. If they actually took their careers seriously they wouldn't be drinking alcohol at all during the season. Perhaps our post Christmas collapses are again down to a lack of discipline over the break.

And the players did go and get a reaction for the Bennett/Lawrence incident against Birmingham, but it only lasted one game before going back to normal when the two clowns came back into the team.

My argument is that this happens every single year without fail - there is nothing new in their behaviour against Charlton or any other team that we haven't seen countless times before over the past few years. I don't see why we always assume something must have gone on behind the scenes for this to happen again, because if it is then they may as well cancel Eastenders and just put a camera on the Derby squad it happens so often.

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51 minutes ago, GenBr said:

I disagree that we were lucky to beat Luton. We were the better team even if not by much. We haven't been Lampard or McClaren free flowing football so far, but the only games I've felt we were truly awful were Leeds and the two London games.

On your main point I am agreeing with you though. Especially after the drinking incident it definitely makes me question their professionalism for a lot of them. Maybe these drinking sessions aren't a regular occurrence, but somehow I doubt it. If they actually took their careers seriously they wouldn't be drinking alcohol at all during the season. Perhaps our post Christmas collapses are again down to a lack of discipline over the break.

And the players did go and get a reaction for the Bennett/Lawrence incident against Birmingham, but it only lasted one game before going back to normal when the two clowns came back into the team.

My argument is that this happens every single year without fail - there is nothing new in their behaviour against Charlton or any other team that we haven't seen countless times before over the past few years. I don't see why we always assume something must have gone on behind the scenes for this to happen again, because if it is then they may as well cancel Eastenders and just put a camera on the Derby squad it happens so often.

But the whole team, Shinnie apart, looked as though they couldn't be bothered not just the "two clowns" surely any self respecting footballer would want to put in a good performance to show the fans that they are good solid professionals.

Opening the discussion a little wider, despite the changes in Manager why do we have this annual Post Xmas decline. Do we have a drink and a wider culture issue at Derby, I doubt that the Post Xmas decline can be attributed too many mince pies.

Our players are not all bad, why they do they all look so dispirited and fail to play to their potential, I can only think it must be down to the inherent culture within our first team squad and I am at a loss to identify the cause.

I can accept individual players having an off day, I can accept a defeat but not trying is wholly unacceptable. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

But the whole team, Shinnie apart, looked as though they couldn't be bothered not just the "two clowns" surely any self respecting footballer would want to put in a good performance to show the fans that they are good solid professionals.

Opening the discussion a little wider, despite the changes in Manager why do we have this annual Post Xmas decline. Do we have a drink and a wider culture issue at Derby, I doubt that the Post Xmas decline can be attributed too many mince pies.

Our players are not all bad, why they do they all look so dispirited and fail to play to their potential, I can only think it must be down to the inherent culture within our first team squad and I am at a loss to identify the cause.

I can accept individual players having an off day, I can accept a defeat but not trying is wholly unacceptable. 

 

I'm not saying its just the two clowns though. I'm saying this always happens every season with most of the team looking like they've lost the will to live. I only mention the two clowns, because I'm not convinced bringing them back into the team so soon has not had a negative impact on some of the other players. Its not like we don't have a regular churn of players either, but it happens regardless of who it is.

I have no idea why we decline after Xmas, but personally i think its a combination of factors including excess alcohol over the break. Professional athletes should be well aware that excessive consumption of alcohol does not just effect you for the next day or two, but judging by recent events they don't care. Only my opinion, but the impression I get from anyone other than Martin, Waghorn, Shinnie and Davies is that they are basically doing the bare minimum required of them. I can't imagine most of our players going out of their way to improve their own game like Mount and Wilson used to outside of training when they were here. (although I suppose thats why they are playing in the Prem now)

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8 hours ago, GenBr said:

Don't be ridiculous. We've just come off a run of 5 games unbeaten. Just because we lose one game doesn't mean we have suddenly reverted to our usual post Christmas collapse. West Brom, Swansea, Forest and Bristol are the only teams who have lost less games than us so far this season and neither West Brom nor Swansea looked anything special when we played them.

We have awful games where the players look like they have given up every season before and after Christmas regardless of who the manager is. Happened for Lampard, Rowett, Clement, Pearson, McClaren and Wassall and now happens with Cocu as well. 

I don't think we have been convincing all season. I can't think of one game where we have played really well and dominated. That 5 game unbeaten spell included the hiding at the dirties and a very fortuitous win against the hatters....really hope things improve soon...

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On 20/10/2019 at 22:31, Inverurie Ram said:

Highlights for me were, Duanne Holmes when he came on, (even though some on here have criticised him) for trying to lift the tempo, the steak pies with the Charlton Athletic logo on the top, a nice sunny afternoon, a rainbow above a stand, my boy and I met @therams69(DCFC Big Flagman) outside a nice bar in Borogh Market London Bridge with his boy, and his mates and had a good chat before the game. And I knew before I met him, what a great guy he is for our beloved club, and the great work he does for us fans and his beloved club etc, and that is something as fans, we should all aspire too, a top man that makes me proud to be DCFC and all the rest. So glad I eventually made the effort to speak to a really nice person, with a real nice son to make his dad so proud.

Aww lovely to meet Inverurie and put a name to the poster! Thank you for your kind words as well, very nice:-) Lovely to meet you both as well and thank you so much for the beer! Next round is one me though...

I think next time we should just stay in the bar and have some more drinks after that performance. 

Look forward to catching up again...

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On 21/10/2019 at 13:28, Elwood P Dowd said:

I don't think you have really been paying attention it isn't just the last game, but the Charlton game does typify our recent performances, we were extremely lucky to beat a poor  Luton team, Charlton were never going to score the first goal for us.  We were unbeaten but with far too many draws, I am not putting the blame on Cocu the poor guy hasn't had a chance yet. I do question the players commitment and professionalism. I was using the Annual Post Xmas decline to point out that that we are normally a little further up the table than we are now and if we suffer our usual Annual Post Xmas decline then we could be in trouble.

I return to my original point what has happened to make the players play as if they didn't care, we already know about the Lawrence and Bennett issues so no need to rehash them. You would have thought that the players reaction to the Lawrence and Bennett issues would have been to go out and show the fans what professional footballers can do but their reaction is exactly the opposite.

Why?

 

The Luton comment smacks of arrogance to me. The same Luton side who absolutely spanked Bristol. A team currently much better than us. 
 

Any win is this division is a cracking win. Just look at Swansea and Fulham losing to stoke. Forest losing to Wigan. There are no gimmes in this division. 

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On 21/10/2019 at 11:55, GenBr said:

I disagree that we were lucky to beat Luton. We were the better team even if not by much. We haven't been Lampard or McClaren free flowing football so far, but the only games I've felt we were truly awful were Leeds and the two London games.

On your main point I am agreeing with you though. Especially after the drinking incident it definitely makes me question their professionalism for a lot of them. Maybe these drinking sessions aren't a regular occurrence, but somehow I doubt it. If they actually took their careers seriously they wouldn't be drinking alcohol at all during the season. Perhaps our post Christmas collapses are again down to a lack of discipline over the break.

And the players did go and get a reaction for the Bennett/Lawrence incident against Birmingham, but it only lasted one game before going back to normal when the two clowns came back into the team.

My argument is that this happens every single year without fail - there is nothing new in their behaviour against Charlton or any other team that we haven't seen countless times before over the past few years. I don't see why we always assume something must have gone on behind the scenes for this to happen again, because if it is then they may as well cancel Eastenders and just put a camera on the Derby squad it happens so often.

No arrogance here, if you read the thread of my posts fully you will understand the my argument is that a dispirited\poor Derby side were lucky to beat a poor Luton side. Neither of these sides performances in that game will ever be considered a classic ?

Looking back our recent games We/l are in no position to be arrogant, concerned and puzzled most certainly but definitely not arrogance ?

 

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9 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:


 

Any win is this division is a cracking win. Just look at Swansea and Fulham losing to stoke. Forest losing to Wigan. There are no gimmes in this division. 

True generally, but we gave two easy non competed victories at Brentford and Charlton 

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