Charlton Athletic (A) Match Thread

[Archied]

Harry Potter had his invisibility cloak ,for Derby players it’s invisibility grass ,, wow ,just wow at how lack lustre these players are ,

i don’t know the answer and from his interview at the end neither does Cocu ,it does make me wonder if our time in training is spent getting the back 5 to practice passing it around without ever letting the ball get out of our own half whilst the front players sit and watch on the sidelines ,

that said it’s not easy to define what portion of our woes is down to the players and what’s down to Cocu but the one thing I can tell you is either him or the majority of them have to go cause they aren’t right for each other , for me it’s the players that edge it on being outed as this stuff has been going on long before Cocu arrived , take Martin today ,he may not have had great service but he was totaly half hearted invisible in response , Lawrence is just full of blind alleys and petulance , Holmes will not be a top level championship player ,waghorn is not a winger ,Davies is never gonna play out from the back consistently , Roos is below average ,beliek thinks he is better than he is and can stroll it losing possession wherever he likes , only Shinnie and Malone came out of it today with honour ,

we have had one good/ passionate performance all season and that was Birmingham ,I think that tells us something if we are prepared to be honest and that is that somehow for some time this club is giving its players the wrong message ,we had a brief season last year where a determined winner in lampard was at the helm with 3 very hungry young prem standard players managed to drag our lot along on their coat tails  but now it’s back to business as usual

[Gone]

1 hour ago, Ruda Harliss said:

Adrenaline is released through 

Fear. ( losing a game)

stress. ( possibility of losing a game)

Excitement ( playing for Derby)

Adrenaline can’t be bought (legally)

Being a passenger (with either Bennett or Lawrence after a works do) 

[Ellafella]

The style of football is insipid. There are basic flaws in the team which are habitual. I like Phillip and I want him to do well but all the signs are that he’s not the right chap. No matter how much time you give somebody if they are not right then they are not right. Phillip is pensive, and ponderous and the football his team plays is ponderous and frankly quite boring. I’d be happy to see a poor season unfold if I could see vestiges of development but I see nothing of any note. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said:

Hitler invaded Poland in less time.

Now I'm no scientist but annexing a country seems a bigger job than getting 11 men to play half decent football.

You can’t build an aeroplane without any wings. 

[Finch]

Truth is this is a poor side managed by a replica of Clement. 

[CapeTownRams]

When u look at Sheffield Utd’s  squad and the fact they got promoted then u know that we have more than enough supposed talent to replicate their achievements. The fact that we are nowhere near what they were makes me seriously question whether Coco and his team have what it takes and whether the player’s hearts are really into it.

 

 

[ramtique]

1 hour ago, Ramfan1958 said:

Said after Luton game we were the worst Derby team in 15 years and we are do a thrashing .

5 games unbeaten yes we played rubbish teams. 

The style of football is shocking to watch .

45 years a season ticket holder anyone who tells me this is the way forward and Cocu is future tour having a laugh. 

Get Rid before it's to late. 

I got slaughtered by a few on here for saying similar both during and after the Luton game.. ‘wristslasher’ and the usual nonsense. How could I complain about a 2-0 win? Well, like you Ramfan1958, I’ve been watching for 45 years - have seen the good times and the more regular bad! After what I saw vs Luton, today was absolutely no surprise at all!

I have some sympathy for Cocu and the situation he inherited, but to anyone who’s followed the fortunes of this club as long as we have, he was probably the wrong guy at the wrong time. His lack of knowledge of the Championship is being badly exposed. It was something the club obviously recognised with the appointment of Rosenior, but even his credentials are proving questionable. 

Anyone who thinks this team- even with a fading Rooney - are going to be anywhere near the top so this season are deluded. For all that, I hope Mel doesn’t knee-jerk again and get rid - for all he has so brilliantly done for the club, several hasty and poor appointments are partially responsible for where we stand today. 
But if Cocu’s slow, possession-based is to succeed - and I’m not convinced it ever will in this division - he is going to need the time to completely overhaul a team that is clearly not good enough to achieve his vision. 
 

We are all going to have to accept this season is going to be a mediocre one. I’m sure we’ll pick up enough results to not be seriously in any danger, but I guess what we all need to see is a plan taking shape and some measure of improvement. Let’s see if that’s the case post-January...

[CapeTownRams]

16 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

The style of football is insipid. There are basic flaws in the team which are habitual. I like Phillip and I want him to do well but all the signs are that he’s not the right chap. No matter how much time you give somebody if they are not right then they are not right. Phillip is pensive, and ponderous and the football his team plays is ponderous and frankly quite boring. I’d be happy to see a poor season unfold if I could see vestiges of development but I see nothing of any note. 

Seems to me he’s got this style of football in his mind that he wants us to play- the problem is that the players at his disposal haven’t got the requisite skills to implement that vision. Coco’s problem seems to be that he can’t move to a PlanB and work with what he has..

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

26 minutes ago, Archied said:

Harry Potter had his invisibility cloak ,for Derby players it’s invisibility grass ,, wow ,just wow at how lack lustre these players are ,

i don’t know the answer and from his interview at the end neither does Cocu ,it does make me wonder if our time in training is spent getting the back 5 to practice passing it around without ever letting the ball get out of our own half whilst the front players sit and watch on the sidelines ,

that said it’s not easy to define what portion of our woes is down to the players and what’s down to Cocu but the one thing I can tell you is either him or the majority of them have to go cause they aren’t right for each other , for me it’s the players that edge it on being outed as this stuff has been going on long before Cocu arrived , take Martin today ,he may not have had great service but he was totaly half hearted invisible in response , Lawrence is just full of blind alleys and petulance , Holmes will not be a top level championship player ,waghorn is not a winger ,Davies is never gonna play out from the back consistently , Roos is below average ,beliek thinks he is better than he is and can stroll it losing possession wherever he likes , only Shinnie and Malone came out of it today with honour ,

we have had one good/ passionate performance all season and that was Birmingham ,I think that tells us something if we are prepared to be honest and that is that somehow for some time this club is giving its players the wrong message ,we had a brief season last year where a determined winner in lampard was at the helm with 3 very hungry young prem standard players managed to drag our lot along on their coat tails  but now it’s back to business as usual

We have seen this before under Clement...the football is underwhelming and unexciting and that drains the players of their enthusiasm as noone is playing to their strengths etc...

As I recall wassell came in to replace him when he was sacked and within a couple of matches the mojo returned and we were back in the playoffs.

I'm not blaming the players here,that's baalocks,it's the system and management that's at fault.

[Abu Dhabi Ram]

3 minutes ago, caymanram said:

When u look at Sheffield Utd’s  squad and the fact they got promoted then u know that we have more than enough supposed talent to replicate their achievements. The fact that we are nowhere near what they were makes me seriously question whether Coco and his team have what it takes and whether the player’s hearts are really into it.

 

 

They kept the same manager and built slowly- we are nothing like them, but we should aim for their model.

[Archied]

2 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

We have seen this before under Clement...the football is underwhelming and unexciting and that drains the players of their enthusiasm as noone is playing to their strengths etc...

As I recall wassell came in to replace him when he was sacked and within a couple of matches the mojo returned and we were back in the playoffs.

I'm not blaming the players here,that's baalocks,it's the system and management that's at fault.

That’s your choice kash and as I say I’m not sure how to apportion the blame fairly at this point but I do know that for a long time and under a succession of different managers we seem to keep and accumulate players who can and do just switch off when it suits them at the drop of a hat in terms of personal pride ,fight and spirit in their performance 

[Rampant]

7 minutes ago, caymanram said:

When u look at Sheffield Utd’s  squad and the fact they got promoted then u know that we have more than enough supposed talent to replicate their achievements. The fact that we are nowhere near what they were makes me seriously question whether Coco and his team have what it takes and whether the player’s hearts are really into it.

 

 

Is our squad that talented though? How many Rams players would be consistently good enough to be in the starting XI of an automatically promoted side? Bogle perhaps and maybe Marriott if the team played to his strengths. 

I believe Cocu is the man to take us forward but it'll be a steady progression after several transfer windows. I also hope he starts to use the young guns a little more too as their energy alone would likely improve our overall performances.

[Sparkle]

9 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

We have seen this before under Clement...the football is underwhelming and unexciting and that drains the players of their enthusiasm as noone is playing to their strengths etc...

As I recall wassell came in to replace him when he was sacked and within a couple of matches the mojo returned and we were back in the playoffs.

I'm not blaming the players here,that's baalocks,it's the system and management that's at fault.

That’s true but we had better players to come back in 

[superzak]

make no mistake we are in trouble this season...if we are out of the relegation places by May we will do well

[G-Ram]

Were pretty rubbish. I dont mind being rubbish if were beaten by the better side. Nobody likes to lose but i dont mind losing if we give 100% & just not good enough 

What i cant stand though is lack of effort & complete spineless performances. Dont think anyone minds losing if were trying. But the complete lack of desire and how clueless we are is pathetic

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

Just now, Archied said:

That’s your choice kash and as I say I’m not sure how to apportion the blame fairly at this point but I do know that for a long time and under a succession of different managers we seem to keep and accumulate players who can and do just switch off when it suits them at the drop of a hat in terms of personal pride ,fight and spirit in their performance 

I don't buy into that...99 percent of players strive to do well and showoff their skills..they all want to be loved but if the system is wrong or the management is poor then they can't show their best.

Just running around a lot looking enthusiastic is no replacement for playing in a system that works.

Cocu needs to sort this out and no number of fresh additions will make any long term difference if he doesn't.

Sometimes a manager just needs something or someone to get it to snap into place...with McLaren it was having a assistant manager who was a little more gung ho in terms of attacking play.

Cocu has been fortunate, I think,in finding what is actually a decent side to put out today and that's been caused by injuries and luck rather than by his judgement but the mix is just lacking something at the minute.....let's hope he stumbles upon the magic ingredient and soon.

 

[Archied]

7 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I don't buy into that...99 percent of players strive to do well and showoff their skills..they all want to be loved but if the system is wrong or the management is poor then they can't show their best.

Just running around a lot looking enthusiastic is no replacement for playing in a system that works.

Cocu needs to sort this out and no number of fresh additions will make any long term difference if he doesn't.

Sometimes a manager just needs something or someone to get it to snap into place...with McLaren it was having a assistant manager who was a little more gung ho in terms of attacking play.

Cocu has been fortunate, I think,in finding what is actually a decent side to put out today and that's been caused by injuries and luck rather than by his judgement but the mix is just lacking something at the minute.....let's hope he stumbles upon the magic ingredient and soon.

 

Yep agree with that ,it’s not enough but players with talent have to get their hands dirty too and also make systems work , theres a balance to be had 

[hintonsboots]

16 minutes ago, Abu Dhabi Ram said:

They kept the same manager and built slowly- we are nothing like them, but we should aim for their model.

Chris Wilder won League 1 in his first season in charge at Sheffield Utd with a record points total. He quickly established them in the Championship the following season finishing 10th and then automatic promotion the following season.

I really want Cocu to succeed, but he has never worked below the top division before and is more familiar with managing international standard players, a bit like Clement as a coach to Carlo as he insisted on calling him.

So can he cut it in the lower divisions, with the ultra competitive Championship being what is so far for us impossible to extricate ourselves from ?

I have seen some cracking Derby teams over the last 50 years, but I’m really disappointed at the lack of energy in this group. I really want Mel to get us up to the Premier and establish ourselves, with plenty of excitement along the way, like last season. At the moment we are lacking an entire spine, dominant keeper, centre back , central midfielder and striker, the Jan window combined with Rooneys arrival is going to be massive and decide our managers future.

[IslandExile]

It's time for them to go.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those ridiculous striped sleeves ?. And the black shorts.... Bring back lucky navy.

As for those calling to sack Cocu. You crazy impatient, iPad generation.

Cocu inherited a very poor squad with no time to do anything about it. Team bonding has taken a few hits recently.

It will take time. We all said that at the start of the season. So why aren't so many of you allowing that time?

And suggestions of Rowett and Mac....I cannot believe what I'm reading. Some posts on here depress me more than the result and the performance today.

Yes, today wasn't anywhere near good enough but Cocu knows that and it's just a painful step along the way to better things.

Patience. Faith. UTR ?

[Phuket Ram]

Just can't see what Cocu is trying to do here. I'm not sure even he knows.

I think he's already one of the worst managers we've had here. Doesn't have a clue about the players or their positions, or how to get the most out of them. The only thing I hope he's worked out is that he needs to change whatever he's doing, because none of the players are buying it.