bye

[richinspain]

Drink driving really is a terrible thing. They were very lucky not to have killed someone, but have probably finished a teammate's career at least at this level. They were lucky, and hopefully the justice system will deal with them appropriately, not as footballers but as road users.

Now for the nitty gritty. They are footballers of a fairly high standard (won't get into an argument about consistency etc), and as such are very expensive assets of the business ie DCFC. Many on here have called for them to be sacked, something which at another business could quite possibly occur. Other businesses however wouldn't wipe out many millions of pounds worth of assets because of this (serious) error of judgement. Would the club seriously risk a transfer embargo because it wanted to make a moral stance? Would the fans be happy for the club to do that? The OP has said that he will go to the remaining games this season but won't be back after. Why? I presume because they have paid good money for a season ticket. If you're so disgusted with the decision to play these players why don't you refuse to go again until they are no longer at the club? Is it because you have spent £500? £500 may be a lot of money for you, I know it is for me. I get angry because I'm not allowed to watch certain games because they are being screened in Outer Mongolia or wherever. RamsTV is much cheaper than a season ticket, but it's still a large portion of my wages. However, what we spend is a drop in the ocean compared with the millions and millions that Mel Morris has spent. It's very easy to be disgusted with him for allowing them to play when it's not your money. He's a wealthy man, but that doesn't mean that we fans can tell him how to spend it (or in this case throw it away). 
 

So, by all means take whatever action you feel appropriate, but don't expect others to do the same.

[Rammy03]

Why should we stop supporting the club just because of the actions of two individuals. I'm not fussed whether they play or not but I agree that last night was too soon. As mentioned before, from a business point of view it would be stupid to just get rid of them. All I ask is for you to keep supporting the lads on the pitch, don't let the stupid actions of a couple of people change this great club.

[HeedRam]

13 hours ago, DCFC Ram said:

Just a quick cheerio from me.

I've enjoyed reading and contributing to this forum, the Derby Craic and the old NEP one over many years.

I'll see out this season as my last as a DCFC season ticket holder.

I'll not be supporting Derby County at the remaining games but I dohope to enjoy the matches whoever Derby County is playing.

I was at Barnsley tonight.

I cannot support that team selection decision and they 2 players are not 'one of my own.'

I do not want to be associated with a club that is morally bankrupt. And it is and I won't.

So - thanks to all on here and the other forums for the Derby chat over many years.

over and out for the forseeable future at least

 

 

 

Although I agree that it was wrong to have both Lawrence and Bennett on the team sheet for the game, I think it's wrong of you to turn your back on your own club, going through a rough patch. If you are serious, I think it's pathetic, especially considering that you're turning your back on a club you've supposedly loved. 

[ram59]

These are very difficult times and these players have put the club in an impossible position. From a business point of view, remember football is now a business, the club and management have to weigh up their options whilst not damaging the business either financially or morally. 

Would we be happy if we didn't play them and then got relegated by 1 point?

On a personal note, would you throw out your son or daughter if they are caught drink driving? Some people would say letting them continue to live at home would be like condoning their actions. 

The authorities will deal with punishing these players and the club will also deal with them, as they see fit. Whatever they do, will be either too much or too little, depending on your point of view. 

At the end of the day, we will still be supporting the club long after the current owners, staff and players have left. 

[ram59]

14 hours ago, DCFC Ram said:

Just a quick cheerio from me.

I've enjoyed reading and contributing to this forum, the Derby Craic and the old NEP one over many years.

I'll see out this season as my last as a DCFC season ticket holder.

I'll not be supporting Derby County at the remaining games but I dohope to enjoy the matches whoever Derby County is playing.

I was at Barnsley tonight.

I cannot support that team selection decision and they 2 players are not 'one of my own.'

I do not want to be associated with a club that is morally bankrupt. And it is and I won't.

So - thanks to all on here and the other forums for the Derby chat over many years.

over and out for the forseeable future at least

 

 

 

After rereading this, I can't help but think it smacks of hypocrisy.

I would have accepted refusing to go to any more games, but to see out the season because you've paid for it, it's no different to the club playing the players because they've paid for them. 

[EraniosSocks]

I will be going to games still, but I would not renew next year just because I feel ashamed that these sort of people play for my football club.

[KCG]

Another boring topic started by an angel who's never done anything wrong in his entire life ?

[Mostyn6]

some people need to get a life and not be so judgemental. I bet most people if they did a bit of digging would find those considered as friends and family contain people have Drove over the limit and/or worse, albeit not getting caught doesn't make them less guilty unless you're a hypocrite.

Human Rights mean you are allowed to earn a living until convicted, and as footballer wages are subsidised by appearance and win bonus money, leaving them out before a conviction is unfair.

[Owd miner]

I feel same as original poster mi sen. I wa looking forward ta Charlton and Barnsley but i carn't bring mi sen ta go cause of them two. Whats even worse is i've bought away membership ... And even worse than that Hilda dun't know abart that....she'll kill me or tek one of mi pigeons out... I'll see ya all when them two criminals have gone ... and until then i'll be seeing you.....

[Owd miner]

5 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

some people need to get a life and not be so judgemental. I bet most people if they did a bit of digging would find those considered as friends and family contain people have Drove over the limit and/or worse, albeit not getting caught doesn't make them less guilty unless you're a hypocrite.

Human Rights mean you are allowed to earn a living until convicted, and as footballer wages are subsidised by appearance and win bonus money, leaving them out before a conviction is unfair.

if ya did owt like it in a normal job mi owd ya would be suspended pending investigation and  on gardening leave.... 

[Pottig]

15 hours ago, DCFC Ram said:

Just a quick cheerio from me.

I've enjoyed reading and contributing to this forum, the Derby Craic and the old NEP one over many years.

I'll see out this season as my last as a DCFC season ticket holder.

I'll not be supporting Derby County at the remaining games but I dohope to enjoy the matches whoever Derby County is playing.

I was at Barnsley tonight.

I cannot support that team selection decision and they 2 players are not 'one of my own.'

I do not want to be associated with a club that is morally bankrupt. And it is and I won't.

So - thanks to all on here and the other forums for the Derby chat over many years.

over and out for the forseeable future at least

 

 

 

See you soon, mate.

[rammieib]

2 hours ago, richinspain said:

Drink driving really is a terrible thing. They were very lucky not to have killed someone, but have probably finished a teammate's career at least at this level. They were lucky, and hopefully the justice system will deal with them appropriately, not as footballers but as road users.

Now for the nitty gritty. They are footballers of a fairly high standard (won't get into an argument about consistency etc), and as such are very expensive assets of the business ie DCFC. Many on here have called for them to be sacked, something which at another business could quite possibly occur. Other businesses however wouldn't wipe out many millions of pounds worth of assets because of this (serious) error of judgement. Would the club seriously risk a transfer embargo because it wanted to make a moral stance? Would the fans be happy for the club to do that? The OP has said that he will go to the remaining games this season but won't be back after. Why? I presume because they have paid good money for a season ticket. If you're so disgusted with the decision to play these players why don't you refuse to go again until they are no longer at the club? Is it because you have spent £500? £500 may be a lot of money for you, I know it is for me. I get angry because I'm not allowed to watch certain games because they are being screened in Outer Mongolia or wherever. RamsTV is much cheaper than a season ticket, but it's still a large portion of my wages. However, what we spend is a drop in the ocean compared with the millions and millions that Mel Morris has spent. It's very easy to be disgusted with him for allowing them to play when it's not your money. He's a wealthy man, but that doesn't mean that we fans can tell him how to spend it (or in this case throw it away). 
 

So, by all means take whatever action you feel appropriate, but don't expect others to do the same.

DCFC are setting their policy out in how they should treat any employee if they are guilty of a serious misconduct offence.

They can't now even suspend employees as to do so the offence would need to be in the clubs eyes as more justifiably wrong than what TL/MB have done.

Can you just imagine a club policy saying "If you're worth over £100k on the balance sheet, you cannot be suspended/sacked".....

I feel as angry and disappointed as the OP, but my support in wanting DCFC to win games hasn't changed and my support to the team continues.

[YorkshireRam]

32 minutes ago, KCG said:

Another boring topic started by an angel who's never done anything wrong in his entire life ?

I hate this rhetoric, you don't have to be morally perfect to condemn the silly actions of a group of people who have such privilege that the entire situation could have been easily avoided.

Implying all mistakes to be equal isn't correct. To put yourself in a position where you show reckless endangerment to not only yourself but anyone else on the road is a pretty big mistake and one they are now facing big consequences for.

I'm angry that they played yesterday: I'm angry because it has divided the fans and re-opened the wound that saturday had started to heal, I'm angry because it wasn't in the best interest of the 2 individuals themselves with Lawrence leaving the pitch in tears and I'm angry because it wasn't the right decision for this club or the squad.

On October 15th, Bennett and Lawrence may go to prison. This will rightly be at the forefront of their minds currently, which means they're not in the right mindset for a game of football. Their reactions yesterday only serve to prove that. Saturday felt like 1 step forward and irregardless of result, yesterday felt like 2 steps back...

I'm not going to stop supporting the club or anything but it is a decision that has annoyed me because it just doesn't make sense.

[Mostyn6]

53 minutes ago, Owd miner said:

if ya did owt like it in a normal job mi owd ya would be suspended pending investigation and  on gardening leave.... 

not at all. Simply as there's no such thing as a normal job. If your employer values you and your job doesn't require a driving licence. I've known many, mainly unskilled, workers who I have worked with that got done for D/D and didn't even get shamed for it, let alone lose jobs. All that happened is they got to work a different way.

On the opposite end of the scale, I've known people managed out of employment for soft reasons simply cos they weren't liked.

[minesahartington]

1 hour ago, Owd miner said:

if ya did owt like it in a normal job mi owd ya would be suspended pending investigation and  on gardening leave.... 

Depends on your role mi owd plenty of companies have provided or allowed for staff to make other arrangements if banned for being over the limit. Few people would get sacked unless they were employed as drivers. Bloke at work got his mrs to chauffeur him around for a year. He was the companies top salesman who brought in millions!

[Rich84]

57 minutes ago, Owd miner said:

if ya did owt like it in a normal job mi owd ya would be suspended pending investigation and  on gardening leave.... 

I know several people over my 37 years of working that have broken the law with driving related incidents, not one was ever suspended, sacked or penalised in any way from their employers as their jobs did not rely on them driving, more than one incident ended up in court. 

I think speeding is disgraceful and is a known link to accidents and cause of death, or use of mobile phones while driving...... Should all of those people be treated the same? Have all of you on here never ever done any of these? I suspect nearly every single person has broken the law in relation to road use which 'could' have led to an accident!!!! I am not condoning what they have done, but the reality is that we have a criminal justice system for dealing with it and apportioning appropriate punishment, let them deal with it. 

[IronRam 140.6]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

some people need to get a life and not be so judgemental. I bet most people if they did a bit of digging would find those considered as friends and family contain people have Drove over the limit and/or worse, albeit not getting caught doesn't make them less guilty unless you're a hypocrite.

Human Rights mean you are allowed to earn a living until convicted, and as footballer wages are subsidised by appearance and win bonus money, leaving them out before a conviction is unfair.

Tin hat on here, but am I the only person who doesn't give a rats ass what people I don't know, get up to, and the poo they drop themselves in???

I feel about the same amount if indignation towards those 3 as I do when I open the Derby Telegraph and see Bob from Kilburn or Sheila from Sinfin fined for drink driving. Not much. 

My interaction is that I watch them play footy on a Saturday. I feel that such a small amount of interraction isn't enough to get all bent out of shape over, and ultimately drive my mood. They are just familiar looking strangers.

They have ballsed up and medicine will have to be taken.  How strong or weak that medicine is, is again not something I can control.

As footballers, Bennett is only here because he was a prodigious 15yr old talent that we are being far too patient with, waiting for it to blossom. It wont.

Lawrence is so simliar to Laurent Robert when he was at Newcastle, promises so much but will ultimately fail to deliver.  

So for footballing reasons they shouldn't play in the first instance. The off field stuff? Meh, bothered. Thats their problem.

I liked Keogh, good player. So its a shame he has conspired to end his own career. 

[Turk Thrust]

16 hours ago, DCFC Ram said:

Just a quick cheerio from me.

I've enjoyed reading and contributing to this forum, the Derby Craic and the old NEP one over many years.

I'll see out this season as my last as a DCFC season ticket holder.

I'll not be supporting Derby County at the remaining games but I dohope to enjoy the matches whoever Derby County is playing.

I was at Barnsley tonight.

I cannot support that team selection decision and they 2 players are not 'one of my own.'

I do not want to be associated with a club that is morally bankrupt. And it is and I won't.

So - thanks to all on here and the other forums for the Derby chat over many years.

over and out for the forseeable future at least

 

 

 

Pathetic. 

[Owd miner]

11 minutes ago, Rich84 said:

I know several people over my 37 years of working that have broken the law with driving related incidents, not one was ever suspended, sacked or penalised in any way from their employers as their jobs did not rely on them driving, more than one incident ended up in court. 

I think speeding is disgraceful and is a known link to accidents and cause of death, or use of mobile phones while driving...... Should all of those people be treated the same? Have all of you on here never ever done any of these? I suspect nearly every single person has broken the law in relation to road use which 'could' have led to an accident!!!! I am not condoning what they have done, but the reality is that we have a criminal justice system for dealing with it and apportioning appropriate punishment, let them deal with it. 

yes

[swanny]

my kids are the fourth generation of Derby fans in our family. my Grandad was at the 46 cup final and supported them before then. That's nearly 100 years of support for this club.  I've never felt ashamed of the club like i did after this incident. Embarassed yes - by on the field crapness but not ashamed.  But I'm not about to leave the club because of three individuals, the football club means too much to me,  and certainly not before club and police investigations have even been completed. Give them both the chance to get to the end of the process before walking away. 

At the same, despite despising their actions i am sympathetic to them. They have made a massive mistake and are/will pay for it. I dont hate them, i just dislike their actions.  No one deserves to be condemned forever imho.