Zag zig Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 59 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: If I couldn't muster up the rage to boo Robbie Savage, I doubt I'll manage to for Keogh, Lawrence or Bennett. Keogh - for all his silly decisions over the years, has always been committed and dedicated, and until now, appeared to conduct himself professionally. Lawrence - most talented player Derby own, and could/should be dominating this division, clearly his head isn't right, we need to coax out the football genius and see his true capability. Bennett - massive handful and does make things happen, sadly the goals/assists don't back up the trouble he causes the opposition, but with his strength, power, pace and decent technique, like Lawrence, has the potential to be a force at this level. I’m still unsure other than get in the back of a a reported drunk drivers car, what Keogh did wrong, different to say Huddlestone or Malone; although recognise as captain of the team, some element of moral leadership should have guided him not to have let young lads get in such a state in the first place. How many other footballers have got drunk and been booed over the years? Seems odd for me, other than the injury sustained being a passenger in an alleged ( giving legal case chance to play out) drunk drivers car to judge Keogh as harshly as the other two. Most important thing for me, is when the club concludes this investigation, they rule out the possibility that no other players were behind a wheel after this night out, as so far the focus has been purely on these three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: I don't believe they should play until after their court appearances. The outcome of that should dictate how they are handled from then on. Until then they should sit down, keep their mouths shut and work on being better people. I don't think we will see them in the next two games and then the court case is middle of the month before Charlton away. If Lawrence gets a prison sentence (I hope he does), the clubs response to that will be very interesting. If you take everyone's views on this - you will have a full spectrum from play them immediately all the way through to sack them. (I sit on the sack them if found guilty) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, rammieib said: If Lawrence gets a prison sentence (I hope he does) You have no idea how over the limit Lawrence was compared to Mason Bennett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Andicis said: I have an issue with this. When is he supposed to have demonstrated said talent? He loves a step over and pointless skill moves, does that make him talented? I think players like Bogle, Lowe, Marriott, Martin are all more talented footballers than him, and actually can show it on the pitch. you make it sound like he's contributed nothing to this team. He's spent two years out of position, under numerous managers and in numerous formations, in front of clueless groaning fans, and yes, he's struggled to find consistently GOOD form. But he has the most technical ability in the squad. Bogle and Lowe are both still learning too, and have plenty of time to improve, Marriott is just a livewire finisher, but stats would put him as less consistent than Lawrence! Martin has had more misses in recent years than hits, certainly over the same period of time Lawrence has been here, so I'd like to throw the question back at ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, Zag zig said: I’m still unsure other than get in the back of a a reported drunk drivers car, what Keogh did wrong, different to say Huddlestone or Malone; although recognise as captain of the team, some element of moral leadership should have guided him not to have let young lads get in such a state in the first place. How many other footballers have got drunk and been booed over the years? Seems odd for me, other than the injury sustained being a passenger in an alleged ( giving legal case chance to play out) drunk drivers car to judge Keogh as harshly as the other two. Most important thing for me, is when the club concludes this investigation, they rule out the possibility that no other players were behind a wheel after this night out, as so far the focus has been purely on these three. it's been argued that Keogh is complicit if he knowingly/willingly got into the car. Whilst not as bad, it's a bit misguided and does tarnish what you'd argue is a perfect record as a professional here at Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, philmycocu said: Blowing into a machine and registering over the alcohol drink-drive limit has already assumed their guilt. If they'd passed the test then they wouldn't have been charged. It's all about sentencing now and mitigation etc. I don't want them playing until after their rehabilitation. 'Assumed' their guilt...if I was their lawyer that would not be my train of thought! Was the paperwork completed correctly, were they read their rights/advised properly, was the officer up to date with recent testing training, were their drinks spiked, had the equipment been recently tested for accuracy, was the result tainted in any way that could render it debatable.... They haven't come out and admitted their guilt yet have they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said: you make it sound like he's contributed nothing to this team. He's spent two years out of position, under numerous managers and in numerous formations, in front of clueless groaning fans, and yes, he's struggled to find consistently GOOD form. But he has the most technical ability in the squad. Bogle and Lowe are both still learning too, and have plenty of time to improve, Marriott is just a livewire finisher, but stats would put him as less consistent than Lawrence! Martin has had more misses in recent years than hits, certainly over the same period of time Lawrence has been here, so I'd like to throw the question back at ya! Doesn't that just imply he doesn't have a position he excels in? If he was head and shoulders above the other players, the team would be built to accommodate him. He has 14 goals in 79 appearances for us. That's not brilliant for someone who's meant to be so talented, is it? Lawrence also has always considered himself better than he actually was. He loves a knuckleball freekick, or ignoring the simple pass option to run down a dead end. How does he have the best technical ability? Is it because he does step overs? Because that's now how I judge technique, he's not very good at corners, occasionally can score wonder goals, to be fair to him. Marriott is much more than just a livewire finisher, that's underplaying his overall impact in games. You are happy to acknowledge Lawrence has had numerous managers and numerous formations but refuse to do the same for Chris, that's disingenuous at best. Bogle and Lowe are both technically excellent young players who perform (in Lowe's case in multiple positions) on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, rammieib said: If Lawrence gets a prison sentence (I hope he does) really? Where does this crime rank on the criminal scale for you? Reading about people smashing glasses in people's faces and getting a suspended sentence. People having 1000s of indecent images and getting a rehabilitation order, but you see a bloke thinking he's sober enough to drive, as 100s do all the time, and being involved in a crash. Now, don't get me twisted, I deplore drink driving, I mean truly do. I have been in fights with close friends after taking their car keys out of the ignition of their cars outside the pub. But in the grand scheme of things, this is a crime of ignorance, stupidly, delusion, irrational-thinking etc, not a crime out of malice, intent, violence, vengeance etc. I think your moral compass could be a bit misaligned if you want to stick the boot into someone so clearly troubled with his own mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, philmycocu said: Blowing into a machine and registering over the alcohol drink-drive limit has already assumed their guilt. If they'd passed the test then they wouldn't have been charged. It's all about sentencing now and mitigation etc. I don't want them playing until after their rehabilitation. I certainly don’t want Bennett playing until he has sobered up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Andicis said: Doesn't that just imply he doesn't have a position he excels in? If he was head and shoulders above the other players, the team would be built to accommodate him. He has 14 goals in 79 appearances for us. That's not brilliant for someone who's meant to be so talented, is it? Lawrence also has always considered himself better than he actually was. He loves a knuckleball freekick, or ignoring the simple pass option to run down a dead end. How does he have the best technical ability? Is it because he does step overs? Because that's now how I judge technique, he's not very good at corners, occasionally can score wonder goals, to be fair to him. Marriott is much more than just a livewire finisher, that's underplaying his overall impact in games. You are happy to acknowledge Lawrence has had numerous managers and numerous formations but refuse to do the same for Chris, that's disingenuous at best. Bogle and Lowe are both technically excellent young players who perform (in Lowe's case in multiple positions) on the pitch. I'm not sure what it implies to be honest. It's not as simple in my opinion as you have managers trying to force formations onto teams. 14 in 79 is pretty good if you're being honest. Compare it with his peers. Marriott is class and I love him, but he hasn't contributed as much as people think. Until three weeks ago, most on here wanted Lowe to be offloaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I'm curious as to whether people would be more accepting of them playing if they come out in public to apologise etc first?. Not that this is going to happen. I'm just thinking the silence form them is probably making it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, Van Wolfie said: I'm curious as to whether people would be more accepting of them playing if they come out in public to apologise etc first?. Not that this is going to happen. I'm just thinking the silence form them is probably making it worse. I'm pretty confident that they've probably been told by their lawyers (and possibly the club) to say nothing until after their court cases. Anyone criticising them for their silence probably ought to consider this as a likely scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Just now, Mostyn6 said: I'm not sure what it implies to be honest. It's not as simple in my opinion as you have managers trying to force formations onto teams. 14 in 79 is pretty good if you're being honest. Compare it with his peers. Marriott is class and I love him, but he hasn't contributed as much as people think. Until three weeks ago, most on here wanted Lowe to be offloaded. Can I compare it to wingers we've had in the recently? It's obvious much below what Ince and Wilson provided, but of course they are the best wingers we've had in modern times. Russell averages out as higher than him, but only by a small amount, but to be fair to Russell his poor last season is far from what he was producing the 3 seasons before and skews his average. He comes out ahead of Jamie Ward, but Ward was playing in a shocking Derby team back then, and that has to be taken into consideration. I've seen Marriott change a lot of games when he has come onto the pitch this season. I've seen Lawrence change one, Huddersfield. For what it's worth, I was very vocal on wanting Lowe to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: I'm curious as to whether people would be more accepting of them playing if they come out in public to apologise etc first?. Not that this is going to happen. I'm just thinking the silence form them is probably making it worse. they'll be under strict orders to keep schtum until after the court case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Lawrence our most talented player? Please tell me I’m reading that correctly, I hope you’re joking. As for OP, I’d hope that neither of them are around the squad at least until they have been in court. We didn’t need them on Saturday and produced our best game of the season. What Keogh did was bad, but he didn’t do anything illegal. I just hope Bennett and Lawrence realise just how serious this is rather than it being laughed off in the squad as I sadly suspect it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: I'm pretty confident that they've probably been told by their lawyers (and possibly the club) to say nothing until after their court cases. Anyone criticising them for their silence probably ought to consider this as a likely scenario. FGS stop talking sense won't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 They deserve whatever reaction they get (...within reason obviously, no death threats or physical abuse etc) Booing doesn't do the team any good? No, but neither does acting like a complete pillock and putting your team's captain of 5 years and 600+ appearances out for 12 months, potentially retiring him. Booing Lawrence & Bennett isn't "booing the team", it's booing a couple of individuals who've put the team at risk. These aren't your everyday circumstances, they're exceptional circumstances and how people react to them shouldn't be judged on the same level as if they'd mouthed off at the fans or been caught shagging the reserve keeper's wife. Actions have consequences, if you can't do the time don't do the crime. If they can't face up to their actions, and somehow expect people not to show how upset they are with them then they really need to start living in the real world. Quite frankly at this time the last thing that should be on their mind is the reception they get from the fans. The reaction from their teammates, manager, families etc should be far more important to them, the court case should be more important to them, losing their ability to drive for 18 months should be more important to them. The knowledge that even the injury to Keogh could have been something much, much worse should should be keeping them up at night. The fans booing them? By comparison it should be inconsequential, a dead pixel on one of their 70 inch LCD screens. Unfortunately I know the human mind doesn't work that way so no, I won't be booing them (It's not in my nature and I'm not that vocal anyway) but I certainly wouldn't think anything less of those who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarterForTen Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 If we are going to boo footballers for getting drunk and doing silly things then Paul McGrath would now be deaf. Jim Smith had to send someone to Ireland to find him after one particularly spectacular bender. He was still Man of the Match, mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 No I wouldn’t boo. I might question why they are playing but wouldn’t boo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minesahartington Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I might boo an opponent for cheating perhaps but a player for being picked to play. In that case you should boo the manager for picking him? That might be amusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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