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admira

Ex-Liverpool owner in bid to buy Derby County

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2 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

If being worth 600 million dollars is classed as having no money, I'd hate to think what my current financial situation is classed as.

I was trying to find out how much the son was worth, but couldnt find much. His dads very wealthy, but couldnt find any figures for the son.

1 hour ago, Ellafella said:

True. And they lost zillions in the process apparently. 

We're losing more money now than we were with them.

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48 minutes ago, GenBr said:

I was trying to find out how much the son was worth, but couldnt find much. His dads very wealthy, but couldnt find any figures for the son.

We're losing more money now than we were with them.

I read/saw that he was worth 600 million, although perhaps that is his dad?

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11 hours ago, Carnero said:

Jim White has just said "forget it, it's nonsense" when discussing reports of this deal.

He's quite well in with Mel these days, so we can probably put this one to bed.

I expect White correct on this occasion. 

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It’s interesting.

It isn’t and can’t be a Glazer type thing because you can’t leverage a buyout or get finance on something that has very limited tangible value. Man United was a peculiar situation. It made a profit, was essentially debt free had limited cash but had a huge global name in a then growing TV and international market. It was also high up the pecking order. 

You would find it hard and expensive to raise outside capital on the basis of “Derby County” .. not in the PL, have to stand losses while you try to get there and as a name on the world stage ? Hummmm

If there is a white knight out there then I suspect it’s hard cash - and paying Mel rent for the stadium for a share in a bonanza if we get there. 

I trust Mr Morris to find the right sort of partner .. end of story

 

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18 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

If being worth 600 million dollars is classed as having no money, I'd hate to think what my current financial situation is classed as.

Read a previous post that tells you everthing about these charlatans 

 

"Gillett & Hicks were absolutely despised & ultimately driven out of Liverpool. They tried to fund the club takeover by saddling it with debt using the club as security, undermined Benitez who was in charge at the time & then fell out with each other."

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If it was the son of the current Liverpool owners I'd be far less dubious.  But this guy was part of a board that almost bankrupted one of the top 10 clubs in the world.  he also has an incredibly stupid name.

It's a massive no from me...

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15 hours ago, jono said:

It’s interesting.

It isn’t and can’t be a Glazer type thing because you can’t leverage a buyout or get finance on something that has very limited tangible value. Man United was a peculiar situation. It made a profit, was essentially debt free had limited cash but had a huge global name in a then growing TV and international market. It was also high up the pecking order. 

You would find it hard and expensive to raise outside capital on the basis of “Derby County” .. not in the PL, have to stand losses while you try to get there and as a name on the world stage ? Hummmm

If there is a white knight out there then I suspect it’s hard cash - and paying Mel rent for the stadium for a share in a bonanza if we get there. 

I trust Mr Morris to find the right sort of partner .. end of story

 

Agree that the scale of Derby's appeal will be nowhere near Man Utd or Liverpool but there is still an attraction to the club for those financing a buyout.

Derby's turnover has been around £30m for the past couple of years & our wage bill has been circa £50m. That could be reduced to a level where turnover far exceeds costs & hence freeing up cash to pay the loan payments (and presumably high interest) that backers would require to finance the deal. To illustrate my point, both Brentford's & Sheffield Utd's wage bill was less than £20m in 2018, so in theory a competitive Championship side could still be constructed for a much lower wage bill. Add into the mix the standing of Derby's academy & the pool of talent coming which could be fast-tracked to replace older, higher paid players.

I do believe in running a club prudently (i.e. within its means) but the difference with a leveraged buyout is that a new owner could potentially take large amounts of cash out of the business as 'management fees' in addition to loan repayment fees by making drastic wage savings that wouldn't ultimately benefit the club.

A counter-argument could then go 'well it'd be in everyone's interest then for the team to be competitive otherwise turnover will drop' - yes but Derby's support is noted as being particularly loyal even in pretty bleak times. One league gate below 20,000 in 22 years at Pride Park. No other club in our division can boast that - not Sheffield Wednesday, not Forest & not even Leeds. 

 

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23 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Derby's turnover has been around £30m for the past couple of years & our wage bill has been circa £50m. That could be reduced to a level where turnover far exceeds costs & hence freeing up cash to pay the loan payments (and presumably high interest) that backers would require to finance the deal. To illustrate my point, both Brentford's & Sheffield Utd's wage bill was less than £20m in 2018, so in theory a competitive Championship side could still be constructed for a much lower wage bill. Add into the mix the standing of Derby's academy & the pool of talent coming which could be fast-tracked to replace older, higher paid players.

 

In both your examples of Brentford and Sheffield United they both still lost money in 2018. Wage bill might be our largest expense, but it is not our only expense. Whilst I agree that £50 mill is much too high a wage bill for a non parachute payment Championship side I don't think it would be particularly easy to reduce our expenses to the point where we'd be profitable and still be in the league. 

The last lot of Americans tried for years to make us profitable and were unsuccessful. Anyone who wants to use a Championship clubs income to pay off their debts is going to be waiting a very long time to do so. 

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57 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

To illustrate my point, both Brentford's & Sheffield Utd's wage bill was less than £20m in 2018, so in theory a competitive Championship side could still be constructed for a much lower wage bill. 

 

To do that you need a very good scouting system, and the last time I checked ours hasn't been that great for the past few years.  Especially compared to Brentford's

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4 hours ago, GenBr said:

In both your examples of Brentford and Sheffield United they both still lost money in 2018. Wage bill might be our largest expense, but it is not our only expense. Whilst I agree that £50 mill is much too high a wage bill for a non parachute payment Championship side I don't think it would be particularly easy to reduce our expenses to the point where we'd be profitable and still be in the league. 

The last lot of Americans tried for years to make us profitable and were unsuccessful. Anyone who wants to use a Championship clubs income to pay off their debts is going to be waiting a very long time to do so. 

True but their turnover (and average crowds/fanbase) aren't as large as ours. I should point out that I think the chances of making an accounting profit in the Championship is pretty unlikely - I'm referring to the positive cashflow that would be generated as a result of a low wage bill (vs a relatively high turnover) & the chances of that being extracted out of the club. FFP does allow losses to an extent so this could potentially cover the overheads of 'management fees' to distant new owners.

4 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

To do that you need a very good scouting system, and the last time I checked ours hasn't been that great for the past few years.  Especially compared to Brentford's

Again true to a point but presumably any new owners would focus on using the Academy as the foundation for the side.

Edited by LeedsCityRam

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50 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Reckon this is a nothing story pedalled by journos lamenting the demise of FrankGate as their staple daily output.

3/10 for what is a poor effort.

I dont think this is a nothing story.

Just my opinion, but I think Mel and Foster did meet, they did discuss a potential deal and Mel decided it wasnt right for Derby.

 

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28 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I dont think this is a nothing story.

Just my opinion, but I think Mel and Foster did meet, they did discuss a potential deal and Mel decided it wasnt right for Derby.

 

For clarity, that's exactly what I think and precisely why I say it's a nothing story. I probably should have made that clearer!

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I just hope to god it's not true. It's obvious Mel will need help in the medium to long run to inject capital in the club but i don't fancy it being one of the guys essentially chased out of liverpool. 

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