England v Bulgaria

[Millenniumram]

19 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Boy on internet explains to us why England manager who has took us to World Cup and Nations League semi final, is holding us back. You really couldn't write this stuff sometimes.

Alright let’s shut the forum down then. You wait until we have to play someone decent and you watch how his midfield selections kill us. It happened against Croatia, it happened against Netherlands and it’ll happen again. Lovely bloke and far better than previous managers in bringing a bit of hope back to the country. But we have a squad that should be capable of winning a major tournament and I’m not convinced Southgate has it in him.

[G STAR RAM]

14 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I mean, Sterling has kicked on so much due to Pep since then, so I think anyone would choose to play him, alongside Henderson winning the Champions League. The squad was poor when he took over, but it isn't now. 

His side selection today was bizarre, Trippier over Trent Alexander Arnold for one. I have doubts that we'll ever go the whole way with Southgate. He's a good guy, he trusts youth, but I don't think he has what it takes. Two semi finals we lost out of two with him. 

Compare that to the number of semi finals that world class managers such as Eriksson and Capello got us to.

[G STAR RAM]

8 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Alright let’s shut the forum down then. You wait until we have to play someone decent and you watch how his midfield selections kill us. It happened against Croatia, it happened against Netherlands and it’ll happen again. Lovely bloke and far better than previous managers in bringing a bit of hope back to the country. But we have a squad that should be capable of winning a major tournament and I’m not convinced Southgate has it in him.

And who is it that has put that squad together?

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Compare that to the number of semi finals that world class managers such as Eriksson and Capello got us to.

But that's a straw man. I never made that argument. 

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

But that's a straw man. I never made that argument. 

Your argument was that we lost 2 matches with him, just pointing out that we have had supposed better managers who have also lost matches.

[Andicis]

17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Your argument was that we lost 2 matches with him, just pointing out that we have had supposed better managers who have also lost matches.

But I wouldn't defend his predecessors, they were crap. But that doesn't excuse Southgate.

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Andicis said:

But I wouldn't defend his predecessors, they were crap. But that doesn't excuse Southgate.

Fair comment. 

Just seems the knives were out before kick off today for no particular reason.

Comfortably dispatched Bulgaria 4-0, a quick look through their results shows it is their heaviest defeat in 2 1/4 years.

[Andicis]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Fair comment. 

Just seems the knives were out before kick off today for no particular reason.

Comfortably dispatched Bulgaria 4-0, a quick look through their results shows it is their heaviest defeat in 2 1/4 years.

Because it feels too negative at Wembley vs a rubbish team to play two holding midfielders, not to pick our most creative midfielder, best winger, and play a centre half who has been average at Everton for some time. It's not about the current game, since I'd be very very surprised if we didn't win every qualifier by 4-5 goals, because of the nature of how easy the group is.

I don't see what Barkley does to continue to start. Or Trippier. 

[TigerTedd]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Because it feels too negative at Wembley vs a rubbish team to play two holding midfielders, not to pick our most creative midfielder, best winger, and play a centre half who has been average at Everton for some time. It's not about the current game, since I'd be very very surprised if we didn't win every qualifier by 4-5 goals, because of the nature of how easy the group is.

I don't see what Barkley does to continue to start. Or Trippier. 

Precisely. 

Ie you’re not present at the St. George’s Park, so you don’t see what they do to get picked. But they clearly do something. 

Could be all sorts of reasons not to play others. Certain players might just work better with other players, or in certain systems. He could be saving players for the next game, maybe treating two fairly easy looking games like friendlies to give everyone a run out and a look at. 

Also, he’s lost two semi finals. That’s a great point. I can’t remember the manager that lost two semi finals. Bobby robson only lost one. And all the rest didn’t lose any. 

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

So when do we get to criticise Southgate after the World Cup semi? Does he get to use that as a defense forever? How is a Nations League semi final impressive when we had by far the best squad of the 4 teams that got to the semis, and we poo the bed vs the Netherlands, and scraped past Switzerland. 

So what does Southgate have to do to win you over? What more can he do?

Let's be honest, people are reluctant to criticise Southgate because they can see he has given everything to the job and he has done a really good job where many others have fallen flat. He is trying to encourage a positive brand of football, he is trying to blood young players, he is trying to maintain a competitive edge.

It sounds like you're blaming Southgate for not going beyond the semi finals in the previous two competitions. Is it his fault? The reality is that the players haven't held their nerve on the big occasion. The players haven't risen to the occasion and seized opportunities.

I think Southgate is doing a fine job, personally. If you deem two semi final appearances in three years as 'not impressive' and that England should be winning trophies with this team, then maybe you are underestimating the quality of the top sides at international level.

[Gritstone Ram]

I liked Glenn Hoddles comment today. He said Mason Mount went on loan to Derby a boy and came back a man. 

 

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Because it feels too negative at Wembley vs a rubbish team to play two holding midfielders, not to pick our most creative midfielder, best winger, and play a centre half who has been average at Everton for some time. It's not about the current game, since I'd be very very surprised if we didn't win every qualifier by 4-5 goals, because of the nature of how easy the group is.

I don't see what Barkley does to continue to start. Or Trippier. 

Do you watch them play regularly and se them in training? If not, that could be why you dont see maybe?

[sage]

10 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Because it feels too negative at Wembley vs a rubbish team to play two holding midfielders, not to pick our most creative midfielder, best winger, and play a centre half who has been average at Everton for some time. It's not about the current game, since I'd be very very surprised if we didn't win every qualifier by 4-5 goals, because of the nature of how easy the group is.

I don't see what Barkley does to continue to start. Or Trippier. 

I agree to some extent. I would have picked a more adventurous midfield and different RB but the initial criticism was way over the top.

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Precisely. 

Ie you’re not present at the St. George’s Park, so you don’t see what they do to get picked. But they clearly do something. 

Could be all sorts of reasons not to play others. Certain players might just work better with other players, or in certain systems. He could be saving players for the next game, maybe treating two fairly easy looking games like friendlies to give everyone a run out and a look at. 

Also, he’s lost two semi finals. That’s a great point. I can’t remember the manager that lost two semi finals. Bobby robson only lost one. And all the rest didn’t lose any. 

Why is it a point to brag about losing two semi finals? We should have beaten both Croatia and the Netherlands. We have a better squad of players than both of them. We got it tactically wrong in both. 

So I'm supposed to just take his word for it based off training when Barkley rarely ever delivers in a game? Hodgson had Harry Kane on corners, maybe that worked in training, not really going to just accept it based on how it actually worked. 

 

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

So what does Southgate have to do to win you over? What more can he do?

Let's be honest, people are reluctant to criticise Southgate because they can see he has given everything to the job and he has done a really good job where many others have fallen flat. He is trying to encourage a positive brand of football, he is trying to blood young players, he is trying to maintain a competitive edge.

It sounds like you're blaming Southgate for not going beyond the semi finals in the previous two competitions. Is it his fault? The reality is that the players haven't held their nerve on the big occasion. The players haven't risen to the occasion and seized opportunities.

I think Southgate is doing a fine job, personally. If you deem two semi final appearances in three years as 'not impressive' and that England should be winning trophies with this team, then maybe you are underestimating the quality of the top sides at international level.

Obviously he's trying his best, and is doing a half decent job, but how good is good enough for us? It is his fault for the semi finals. The buck ultimately stops with the manager. He got it tactically wrong against both Croatia and the Netherlands, we got punished for it. Southgate is doing fine. But is fine enough? We have one of the best squads in world football, and some of the best young players coming through. When do we stop saying semi finals is good enough and start raising expectations for ourselves? 

You can't just mention the semi finals without any context and expect me to go for that. We beat a workman like Sweden and a Colombia without their best player (on pens), and then lost to a half reasonable side in Croatia, and then in the nations league, lost to the Netherlands who don't have a striker, when we had the best squad out of the 4 in the nations league finals. 

[Andicis]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Do you watch them play regularly and se them in training? If not, that could be why you dont see maybe?

Obviously not. But why is training more relevant than actual results on the pitch? How many players allegedly tear it up in training, yet it doesn't translate? 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

Alright let’s shut the forum down then. You wait until we have to play someone decent and you watch how his midfield selections kill us. It happened against Croatia, it happened against Netherlands and it’ll happen again. Lovely bloke and far better than previous managers in bringing a bit of hope back to the country. But we have a squad that should be capable of winning a major tournament and I’m not convinced Southgate has it in him.

His midfield selection may kill us, but not sure playing an injured left back and players who dont play for their club teams, as you have suggested, is going to see us fare any better.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Obviously not. But why is training more relevant than actual results on the pitch? How many players allegedly tear it up in training, yet it doesn't translate? 

Because surely you train players to play in your system and you would pick players that suit your system best?

In Gerrard and  Lampard  we had 2 of the best midfielders on the planet but playing them together never worked.

It's not always about playing your 'best players'.

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Because surely you train players to play in your system and you would pick players that suit your system best?

In Gerrard and  Lampard  we had 2 of the best midfielders on the planet but playing them together never worked.

It's not always about playing your 'best players'.

Sure, but we really didn't create many chances with the system that was out there today. They gifted us the opener, and then their game plan to play for a point was out of the window. Better international teams won't do that. I'd just like to see us pick creativity. Our midfield 3 today had nothing going forward with it.

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Sure, but we really didn't create many chances with the system that was out there today. They gifted us the opener, and then their game plan to play for a point was out of the window. Better international teams won't do that. I'd just like to see us pick creativity. Our midfield 3 today had nothing going forward with it.

International games are no longer as easy as they used to be.

Might be proved wrong but my perception that the days of lots of countries getting spanked 6,7,8 - 0 are pretty much over other than the complete whipping boys.

As I said, first time Bulgaria have been beaten by 4 goals in 27 months.

Being a Derby fan over the last 4 years I thought you would know how hard it is breaking down the underdogs who come and defend for their lives.

Over the past few years England have ground teams down. Often half time scores are 0-0 or 1-0 and we go on to score 3 or 4 so lack of creativity is not something that is too worrying in my opinion.