Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Woodley Ram

Ian Holloway Article

Recommended Posts

It's not nice to swear at him, but I don't have a huge problem with it, because that's part of football. However, if fans are telling him to go back to where he came from, or any paraphrased form of that should be ashamed of themselves. No place for it.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, angieram said:

Just to set the record straight about Cocu at Brentford.

At the end of the match he led the walk across the pitch right in front of the away fans and he was applauding us all the way. Of course he was booed and sworn at by some. 

I think he did this to deflect some of that abuse away from the players. They also came up to the away fans and applauded us - luckily by then there were far fewer of us in the ground and so their reception was a bit better.

He’s said multiple times in interviews the importance of thanking the fans at the end of games, especially the away fans. So I was a bit puzzled by these he doesn’t acknowledge the fans claims.

seems to me, and it’s something I was concerned about. Some fans now think Frank and his bounce are the norm.

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

I think the fundamental misunderstanding might be with you. I very carefully chose my wording so as not say stupid or unintelligent, just a lack of comprehension as to how they vent their frustration and how it impacts the players and subsequent performances 

I get massively frustrated and was seething after the brentford game, it just never seemed sensible to berate the players or staff as a way of venting. Ultimately I want the team to be as successful as possible and to me, keeping that frustration to myself and getting some perspective (early in the season, critical injuries, still adapting etc) just seems more productive than trying to abuse our own team in the heat of the moment... 

If someone isn't a logical individual then they're not logical... 'stupid and unintelligent' are two other words we use to state that someone isn't particularly logical. You didn't say 'they may lack an understanding as to how their input affects their performance on the pitch' which would have been more appropriate for what you were trying to communicate.  Can I ask do you have any empirical evidence for the difference between continual support vs conditional support in relation to performance levels? Because you seem so certain about your claim for this i want to know if you've got any statistical data to prove it. 

That's fine if you didn't see it as sensible. I think it was a justifiable reaction to a pretty outrageous performance which even the manager called out to local media. I don't make claims on how it interferes with future performances as I don't know. Just from my point of view it seems a little obvious that continual encouragement even when something is awful could become counter productive very easily and that with anything you need to use the 'carrot and stick' approach. 

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

I think shouting and swearing while attending a football match after such an awful performance is quite normal behaviour especially since emotions get so high. Obviously if they went up in the street and did it to intimidate him then that's not okay but that's not what we're talking about. The stadium is an arena where fans can voice their love, happiness and also displeasure and there is nothing wrong with that. 

It is not okay to abuse any players or manager not matter what result when people like this I wander whats point you even going to games I guessing at the moment thats how players feel like.

Share this post


Link to post

Cocu has earned the right, both as player and manager, to not worry too much about what our (sometimes) tinpot fan base thinks about him. I also doubt that Mel could even be arsed with sacking another manager, especially one on such a long deal. He needs a recruitment team that will give him something to work with. He's been given Jamie Paterson as a replacement for Harry Wilson - it's nothing short of a travesty. It honestly makes me feel sick the talent we bring through the door, especially considering some of the fees we've paid. 

Anyone with a good work ethic and a eye for a footballer could've saved us tens of millions and potentially earned us hundreds of millions. Morris really needs to look at it, because it's by far and wide our weakest aspect as a football club. The academy scouts seem to do just fine - Mitchell-Lawson and Bogle as two good examples. The first team scouts need binning. 

Share this post


Link to post

the absolute fkin state of some of our fans honestly. weve played 6 (SIX) league games, for a manager who has never managed an English club, has never experienced the championship, give him time to adapt and understand the league more ffs!

bet some of those c**** who were booing him, effin and jeffin are the same ones who post on twitter complaining about why we have a new manager every year!

State of some of our fans!!

Edited by Squid

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

Cocu has earned the right, both as player and manager, to not worry too much about what our (sometimes) tinpot fan base thinks about him. I also doubt that Mel could even be arsed with sacking another manager, especially one on such a long deal. He needs a recruitment team that will give him something to work with. He's been given Jamie Paterson as a replacement for Harry Wilson - it's nothing short of a travesty. It honestly makes me feel sick the talent we bring through the door, especially considering some of the fees we've paid. 

Anyone with a good work ethic and a eye for a footballer could've saved us tens of millions and potentially earned us hundreds of millions. Morris really needs to look at it, because it's by far and wide our weakest aspect as a football club. The academy scouts seem to do just fine - Mitchell-Lawson and Bogle as two good examples. The first team scouts need binning. 

Cocu came in late into pre season had no really time to with players how he wants to play and as the new players everything was rushed through.

Share this post


Link to post
34 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

It is not okay to abuse any players or manager not matter what result when people like this I wander whats point you even going to games I guessing at the moment thats how players feel like.

I think it's tricky as the way you'd normally deal with someone performing poorly or disappointing you isn't really open to fans because of the size of arena. It's not like you can go up to Roos and say 'Mate, you've made another mistake try and do a bit better next time'

 Voicing displeasure at players and staff letting down the club is in my book totally okay. Now does that mean booing? Yes does that mean shouting that they're useless sometimes? most likely and i actually don't see anything fundamentally wrong with that on occasion. I don't support abuse like saying someone should 'go back to where they've come from' and I've in the past actually confronted racists in the stands and told them to shut up. 

I go to games because i actually get a lot of pleasure from going and it's something I've been doing since i was a small boy. I don't get to go as often as I'd like which is something that frustrates and at times upsets me. We're all united in wanting Derby to be the best club possible I just don't judge most fans whether they're 'wristslashers' or 'happy clappers'. 

Share this post


Link to post

I was at Brentford . At half time there were a lot of boos as the players walked off the pitch  . The tunnel at Brentford is in the corner and so the players had to walk past the away fans . At full time there was mixture of abuse shouted at the players as well as the usual applause for the players at the end of the game . Cocu applauded the fans as he walked off  , and he continued this as he had abuse shouted at him . 

    I think a lot was just frustration at a poor performance and the same fans will be singing Cocu,s name when it starts to click . 

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I feel sorry for Cocu.

I said when the window closed and I still maintain it, if you asked him how he feels I bet he would be very disappointed.  I think he expected a couple of quality signings after Rooney and the club didn't deliver.

If you hire Jame Martin as your personal chef and all you have in the house is a tin of beans, dont expect him to whip up a gourmet meal, likewise, we cant expect Cocu to earn a top 6 spot with the dross we have currently in midfield.

James Martin is a Dirty Leeds fan, would rather cook my own food 🥘 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

Cocu has earned the right, both as player and manager, to not worry too much about what our (sometimes) tinpot fan base thinks about him. I also doubt that Mel could even be arsed with sacking another manager, especially one on such a long deal. He needs a recruitment team that will give him something to work with. He's been given Jamie Paterson as a replacement for Harry Wilson - it's nothing short of a travesty. It honestly makes me feel sick the talent we bring through the door, especially considering some of the fees we've paid. 

Anyone with a good work ethic and a eye for a footballer could've saved us tens of millions and potentially earned us hundreds of millions. Morris really needs to look at it, because it's by far and wide our weakest aspect as a football club. The academy scouts seem to do just fine - Mitchell-Lawson and Bogle as two good examples. The first team scouts need binning. 

This is what has frustrated me for bloody ages with Derby, we made an absolute balls up signing players only associated with Wasserman...plus we hired Chris Evans, then let Chris Evans go, then hired him again...I'm assuming he has gone again? 

The season we signed Bradley Johnson and Butterfield for 10 plus million, we had the chance to sign Tom Cairney, Lewis Dunk and Dale Stephens, we could have got all 3 for a combined 14 million but we felt it was too expensive, instead we spent 6 million on Johnson, 4 on Butterfield and 3 on Blackman, our recruitment team make no flipping sense.

Take Ollie Watkins, we decided not to sign him because Exeter wanted a loan back and a bit of extra cash, he is now worth millions at Brentford and is probably just what we need now.

Sergi Canos, he was sold by Liverpool to Brentford for 2 million, at the time I said on here it would be a perfect signing for us, he is now worth millions and we allegedly asked about him this summer.

Our signings at times make no sense, Blackman, Olsson, Jerome, Paterson, Alex Pearce, Hamer, Weale. 

We need someone solely in charge of first team transfers, assuming it isn't going to be Cocu.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

This is what has frustrated me for bloody ages with Derby, we made an absolute balls up signing players only associated with Wasserman...plus we hired Chris Evans, then let Chris Evans go, then hired him again...I'm assuming he has gone again? 

The season we signed Bradley Johnson and Butterfield for 10 plus million, we had the chance to sign Tom Cairney, Lewis Dunk and Dale Stephens, we could have got all 3 for a combined 14 million but we felt it was too expensive, instead we spent 6 million on Johnson, 4 on Butterfield and 3 on Blackman, our recruitment team make no flipping sense.

Take Ollie Watkins, we decided not to sign him because Exeter wanted a loan back and a bit of extra cash, he is now worth millions at Brentford and is probably just what we need now.

Sergi Canos, he was sold by Liverpool to Brentford for 2 million, at the time I said on here it would be a perfect signing for us, he is now worth millions and we allegedly asked about him this summer.

Our signings at times make no sense, Blackman, Olsson, Jerome, Paterson, Alex Pearce, Hamer, Weale. 

We need someone solely in charge of first team transfers, assuming it isn't going to be Cocu.

Actually we need the same manager for a while then we can get the right kind of players to suit that manager - simple stuff really 

Edited by Sparkle

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

If someone isn't a logical individual then they're not logical... 'stupid and unintelligent' are two other words we use to state that someone isn't particularly logical. You didn't say 'they may lack an understanding as to how their input affects their performance on the pitch' which would have been more appropriate for what you were trying to communicate.  Can I ask do you have any empirical evidence for the difference between continual support vs conditional support in relation to performance levels? Because you seem so certain about your claim for this i want to know if you've got any statistical data to prove it. 

That's fine if you didn't see it as sensible. I think it was a justifiable reaction to a pretty outrageous performance which even the manager called out to local media. I don't make claims on how it interferes with future performances as I don't know. Just from my point of view it seems a little obvious that continual encouragement even when something is awful could become counter productive very easily and that with anything you need to use the 'carrot and stick' approach. 

That isn't true, intelligence is subjective for one, the application of logic isn't. As for evidencing those claims, it'd be hard to collect quantitative data on the subject so not too much academia exists on the topic but the North American Journal of Psychology published an interesting paper in 2011 that discussed it: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281766861_Cheers_vs_Jeers_Effects_of_audience_feedback_on_individual_athletic_performance

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, SaintRam said:

No amount of money gives anyone the right to abuse people, unless of course it's a transaction related to a seedy basement.

The lack of separation between criticism and abuse in football fans is really quite jarring to be honest.

It isn’t just football, it seems to be rife in society in general. No one’s just mildly p****d off any more, they have to be very angry, rude and aggressive.

Share this post


Link to post

The absolute state of some Derby fans is unbelievable. Not saying its just us, other clubs have it too. 

It wasn't too many years ago we went on a 10 game winless run to the start of the season. I dare say we've got more youth in this side than for a long time (if ever). 

Most the booing fans these days seem to be young blood thinking that Derby should walk the league. 

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

That isn't true, intelligence is subjective for one, the application of logic isn't. As for evidencing those claims, it'd be hard to collect quantitative data on the subject so not too much academia exists on the topic but the North American Journal of Psychology published an interesting paper in 2011 that discussed it: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281766861_Cheers_vs_Jeers_Effects_of_audience_feedback_on_individual_athletic_performance

I thought there was a robust measure to ascertain a person's level of intelligence called the Intelligence Quotient which isn't subjective at all?

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

It is not okay to abuse any players or manager not matter what result when people like this I wander whats point you even going to games I guessing at the moment thats how players feel like.

Says the man who abused Nick Blackman  multiple times

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, RamLad1884 said:

The absolute state of some Derby fans is unbelievable. Not saying its just us, other clubs have it too. 

It wasn't too many years ago we went on a 10 game winless run to the start of the season. I dare say we've got more youth in this side than for a long time (if ever). 

Most the booing fans these days seem to be young blood thinking that Derby should walk the league. 

What's wrong with booing though? Abuse is bad, but booing is a generic way of showing discontent with the performance. 

Also don't understand why it being worse before means we can't be unhappy with it now. 

To clarify, I'm not condoning any form of abuse to the players, more the generic act of booing.

Share this post


Link to post
29 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I thought there was a robust measure to ascertain a person's level of intelligence called the Intelligence Quotient which isn't subjective at all?

Its not that high validity wise IMO and the opinion of others, its quite maths focused and doesn't reflect the intelligence of more creative types. Its not subjective but its pretty narrow.

Edited by Marriot Ram99

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account.

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.