Team Spirit

[goldstar]

Just now, nottingram said:

We don’t know anything about Buchanan’s confidence. Maybe he reacts better to a ticking off than an arm round the shoulder, we literally don’t know.

Very true, I just don't like the way it comes across, especially when we're struggling as a whole. 

[RoyMac5]

12 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Big boy football doesnt excuse the way he went about it. Just decimate his self confidence while we're at it Richard! He's still making mistakes at 30 odd let alone 18/19! It happens, but I notice he's not as vocal with Lawrence and the other seniors so he's picking on the easy target. 

You a fan of Keogh? I'd guess not.

Maybe what Buchanan did needed a yell. He's trying to marshal the defence. 

[cannable]

12 minutes ago, nottingram said:

We don’t know anything about Buchanan’s confidence. Maybe he reacts better to a ticking off than an arm round the shoulder, we literally don’t know.

Always seem to remember Hulse having a shocker during one first half once. 

Absolute monster in the second half and celebrated a goal by shoving Paul Green away and telling one of the coach staff to duck off.

As you say, some people just react better to that 

[LittleEatonRam]

1 hour ago, ramboy63 said:

I dont like to see Cocu come out after games and show disrespect for our players and there effort even if there performance was below par that needs keeping behind closed doors and not coming over to fans to thank them especially after yesterdays dire performance everything FL built up as already been lost and its rubbing off on our team

 

I've seen a couple of other posts which have suggested Cocu criticising the players publically is 'the beginning of the end'.

I don't know where that notion comes from. Mick McCarthy has lambasted his players in interviews numerous times and never been sacked for it, and Nigel Clough did it so often here (and he quite often named individuals) that I lost count in the end.

Chris Wilder criticised his players last week in the media after the Leicester game. Somebody had better warn him his time is up.

[goldstar]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You a fan of Keogh? I'd guess not.

Maybe what Buchanan did needed a yell. He's trying to marshal the defence. 

Its not about whether i like him or not, (im not falling for that excuse to start an argument) that's not marshalling the defence, marshalling the defence is as a whole, instilling grit and determination, a never say die attitude. Did we see any of that yesterday? 

[nottingram]

16 minutes ago, cannable said:

Always seem to remember Hulse having a shocker during one first half once. 

Absolute monster in the second half and celebrated a goal by shoving Paul Green away and telling one of the coach staff to duck off.

As you say, some people just react better to that 

Exactly and conversely I would imagine if you tried that with Lawrence or Bennett they’d be straight into their shell

[YorkshireRam]

38 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Big boy football doesnt excuse the way he went about it. Just decimate his self confidence while we're at it Richard! He's still making mistakes at 30 odd let alone 18/19! It happens, but I notice he's not as vocal with Lawrence and the other seniors so he's picking on the easy target. 

Footballers have to be thick skinned now, if your captain yelling at you ''decimates'' your self confidence, you're probably in the wrong profession...

As for ''picking on'' anyone, that's just nonsense. He had instructions to issue and he issued them. This isn't a schoolyard, these are professional players and with the defensive errors that they made, they needed a kick up the backside...

[OoooMarkWright]

48 minutes ago, goldstar said:

I get that he receives a ton of unwarranted criticism, but one in which i think is warranted is that he doesn't lead, round up the troops and light the fire in the team. How many times have we capitulated when he is captain? He waves his arms about looking wildly and downright belittles a teenager. That's not being a leader, that's taking his personal frustrations out on a young lad.

With his Wembley mistake (which anyone could make) do you think the players got on his back and blamed him? No they backed and supported him.

While he gives 100% every game, makes great runs forward and never gets injured, I suggest while other players work on things like passing, crossing and selfishness perhaps he should look at his leadership skills.

I’m not sure as captain you can have such an influence that a team capitulates or not. Keogh is a great talker on the pitch, numerous players - Bogle and Tomori being two, have said that Keogh is fantastic at talking them through a game. This is much less obvious than some of the arm waving you see in the stands. 

The teams mentality caused these capitulations. From what I see we have very few leaders except for Keogh on the pitch. He can’t do it all himself. A football captains role isn’t that influential compared to say Rugby or cricket. Keogh does a great job, it’s the lack of leadership and character from others that is the problem.

[goldstar]

4 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Footballers have to be thick skinned now, if your captain yelling at you ''decimates'' your self confidence, you're probably in the wrong profession...

As for ''picking on'' anyone, that's just nonsense. He had instructions to issue and he issued them. This isn't a schoolyard, these are professional players and with the defensive errors that they made, they needed a kick up the backside...

He's barely a footballer, he's breaking into the team! How come he never seems as fired up with the older 'tougher' players then? You can call it nonsense all you like, I'm of the opinion that despite his numerous attributes, captaincy is not his strong point and unfortunately mate you won't change my mind on that

[Mick Brolly]

53 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Big boy football doesnt excuse the way he went about it. Just decimate his self confidence while we're at it Richard! He's still making mistakes at 30 odd let alone 18/19! It happens, but I notice he's not as vocal with Lawrence and the other seniors so he's picking on the easy target. 

He's probably gave up berating some of the others but feels that Buchanan might take it on board.

[goldstar]

1 minute ago, Mick Brolly said:

He's probably gave up berating some of the others but feels that Buchanan might take it on board.

? could have a point. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

I will never understand managers who insist on playing anti football, I appreciate Cocu plays this way and we just have to get used to it.

But, I always feel that when you have players who as boys are taught to pass, shoot and score...when you suddenly tell them to pass, pass again and then again,  the players dont buy into it.

Look at Pearson, if players aren't happy they let it be known.

You have Bennett, Malone and Tom Lawrence falling out with fans (not necessarily their fault), Cocu coming out and singling out players despite his wierd tactics. I'd say morale, team spirit, whatever is approaching an all time low.

[CROSSWORD]

As far as i see it captains should berate players who make a mistake or are not focused and should praise them for a good pass or tackle.

Dave Mackay did it all the time and we all know what a lousy leader he was.

 

[Rev]

I like to think that if any of our players were belittling other players and leaving others be for similar mistakes, the team collectively would soon enough put them in their place.

Keogh seems widely admired amongst both players and staff past and present, so I don't think it's an issue.

 

[YorkshireRam]

18 minutes ago, goldstar said:

He's barely a footballer, he's breaking into the team! How come he never seems as fired up with the older 'tougher' players then? You can call it nonsense all you like, I'm of the opinion that despite his numerous attributes, captaincy is not his strong point and unfortunately mate you won't change my mind on that

Question his leadership qualities all you like, i'm questioning your aspersion that Keogh lambasted Buchanan because he was somehow an 'easy target'.

He will be more nervous than most of the season pros and that will affect both his demeanour and play style, same as Knight. You can tell Knight doesn't want to misplace a single pass and Buchanan doesn't want to slip up defensively. Yesterday however, he was at fault and so his captain let him know... there's nothing wrong with that, you shouldn't mollycoddle footballers in the midst of an important league game, tough love and all that.

As for 'barely a footballer', I bet Buchanan himself would be a bit offended by that, he'll have been playing since 7/8 most likely and his foray into the first team is reward for the years of hard work at youth level. With that professional step up, you take on professional responsibility which includes your leader letting you know vocally when you mess up and how to improve...

[therealhantsram]

4 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Honest question, why did the comment surprise you?  

Because we saw the team spirit at the end of last season and since then we lost a couple of big positive influences in Nugent and Tomori plus Lampard himself.  

[goldstar]

13 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Question his leadership qualities all you like, i'm questioning your aspersion that Keogh lambasted Buchanan because he was somehow an 'easy target'.

He will be more nervous than most of the season pros and that will affect both his demeanour and play style, same as Knight. You can tell Knight doesn't want to misplace a single pass and Buchanan doesn't want to slip up defensively. Yesterday however, he was at fault and so his captain let him know... there's nothing wrong with that, you shouldn't mollycoddle footballers in the midst of an important league game, tough love and all that.

As for 'barely a footballer', I bet Buchanan himself would be a bit offended by that, he'll have been playing since 7/8 most likely and his foray into the first team is reward for the years of hard work at youth level. With that professional step up, you take on professional responsibility which includes your leader letting you know vocally when you mess up and how to improve...

Write essays all you like, didn't like the way he handled it, never will.

[Orphanram]

It’s been a very strange start to the season when you compare the Swansea and WBA games to the first 20 minutes of the Bristol City game and the 1st half yesterday. Swansea are one of the form teams since the turn of the year and are currently top of the league and I thought we looked a marginally better team in that game with a slight lack of cutting edge. I think if you look at the amount of changes Cocu has made to the team (some enforced, some not) then the consistency is hardly surprising. What he can’t account for is the high cost errors experienced players in his team have made. The Waghorn penalty misses, the Malone errors and both Lawerence and Huddlestone yesterday. It goes without saying players will make mistakes that cost goals through the course of a season but worryingly these have all occurred in the first few games of the season. For all the talk of the squad being  weaker (which it is) and the young players coming in this has nothing to do with the fact that it’s mainly experienced players have cost us the points this season. Buchanan did struggle yesterday but the bottom line is that neither of the first two goals would have gone if TL and TH hadn’t made those errors and left him on the back foot. 

[RoyMac5]

36 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I will never understand managers who insist on playing anti football, I appreciate Cocu plays this way and we just have to get used to it.

But, I always feel that when you have players who as boys are taught to pass, shoot and score...when you suddenly tell them to pass, pass again and then again,  the players dont buy into it.

Look at Pearson, if players aren't happy they let it be known.

You have Bennett, Malone and Tom Lawrence falling out with fans (not necessarily their fault), Cocu coming out and singling out players despite his wierd tactics. I'd say morale, team spirit, whatever is approaching an all time low.

Wow!

What did you get all that from?

[i-Ram]

52 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I will never understand managers who insist on playing anti football, I appreciate Cocu plays this way and we just have to get used to it.

But, I always feel that when you have players who as boys are taught to pass, shoot and score...when you suddenly tell them to pass, pass again and then again,  the players dont buy into it.

Look at Pearson, if players aren't happy they let it be known.

You have Bennett, Malone and Tom Lawrence falling out with fans (not necessarily their fault), Cocu coming out and singling out players despite his wierd tactics. I'd say morale, team spirit, whatever is approaching an all time low.

It really is amazing what information you can pick-up nowadays when you are asking for a signature in your autograph book.