Cardiff City (H) Match Thread

[NottsRam77]

12 hours ago, LittleEatonRam said:

I wouldn't go as far as celebrating his absence in the next game, but I do think him sitting one out may benefit the team and the individual.

The bloke drives me mad. He's so wasteful with possession it's criminal. So many promising attacks break down with him.

And the extraordinary amount of  bookings he collects for an inside forward is a direct result of his shortcomings: he gets booked because he tackles late out of frustration at having given the ball away.

There is undoubted talent there, but it's shown in so few glimpses that his place in the side is under serious scrutiny.

Nailed it 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

Nailed it 

 

He's just so frustrating. It's not even that he's bad, it's that 90% of the good things he does are undone at the last as one player too many and he loses the ball or makes a duff decision or the shot is off target. Half a smidgen of a football brain and he'd be ripping up the division.

 

[NottsRam77]

40 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

He's just so frustrating. It's not even that he's bad, it's that 90% of the good things he does are undone at the last as one player too many and he loses the ball or makes a duff decision or the shot is off target. Half a smidgen of a football brain and he'd be ripping up the division.

 

Couldn’t agree more

i don’t have a problem with his work rate, he puts a shift in and he’ll always try and get on the ball ... he doesn’t hide which is commendable as some players when it’s going agains them do but his decision making is just simply shocking in all areas of the pitch 

he’s out next game and I’m not going to hammer him, I’m not a fan he’s just not my type of player but I will be interested to see how we perform with one of the chief culprits for turning over possession out of the side 

that said against a side like Leeds he’s the sort of player that could step up 

[IlsonDerby]

This criticism of one player constantly to the point of hounding him out the team is so so boring and so so typical of our entitled minority of the fan base. 

 

Fair enough he’s not been at the races but he’s not nearly as bad as some of the drama queens on here are making out. 

He loses possession? He actually tries things. Imagine having wingers who never attempted to dribble past players but instead chose to go sideways. You’d soon be accusing him of breaking down attacks for that instead. 

Marriott did just as little, lost the ball just as much but is not criticised by any of these Lawrence critics because it’s ‘swing low jack marriott’. 

 

Boils my piss. 

[Birdyabroad]

It’s really interesting how polysemic football games can be.

I confess that, living in Devon, I don’t go to many games. I have, therefore, to rely on the old, cough, cough, VPN to watch them.

But, from my computer screen, I actually thought the following about Fridays game:

- Thought we were the much better team. I think Cocu is definitely the right man but has been dogged by some early season bad luck, I.e., the ref not awarding a pen for the foul on Waghorn. 2-0 up and we’ve probably won the game

- I enjoyed last year but anyone who thinks we’ve downgraded in the managerial dept since the departure of Lampard is looking through rose tinted glasses. I can’t say I fully knew our identity under Lamps and we were most definitely propped-up by three quality loans, all of whom probably wouldn’t have returned this year even if Lamps has stayed.

- Under Cocu, I thinking I’m seeing the green shoots of a ‘footballing side’ take shape, he just hasn’t got the right personnel, YET

- I actually thought Lawrence did okay. People on here question his football brain, but it looked to me that he was trying to do the right thing and did play some nice lay-offs in attacking positions

- I also (Tin hat time) thought the ref had a good game. He was letting play continue, for both sides, and wasn’t blowing the whistle every 30 seconds. This is football and not basketball, I like that he was allowing some sturdier challenges 

So, like I say, everyone reads a game differently, but I actually think we’re in a good place. I turned the game off thinking that I’d much rather be Derby than Cardiff, parachute payments and all.

[RamNut]

Quote

anyone who thinks we’ve downgraded in the managerial dept since the departure of Lampard is looking through rose tinted glasses. 

Lampard bonded with the players - and fans - and was a better man manager.

cocu seems more cerebral and seems to rely more on his assistants to cajole the players.

although cocu had a great playing career, he doesn't quite have the aura that lampard had. 

[AlfonzoBurlonzo]

50 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Lampard bonded with the players - and fans - and was a better man manager.

cocu seems more cerebral and seems to rely more on his assistants to cajole the players.

although cocu had a great playing career, he doesn't quite have the aura that lampard had. 

And you've deciphered this from 7 games? Jesus Christ man.

Anyway, in my opinion we have nothing to worry about. Look at the 7 games we've had. That is a horrendous run of games for a new manager to have to deal with. The one game you probably would've looked at as the easiest on paper before the season started was Swansea at home and bar their defeat today they had won all their other games - and we should've beaten them comfortably really. The signs are there that we can be a good side.

The problem I have with Lawrence is that he plays as a winger when he just is not a winger. He cuts inside at every possible opportunity, often positions himself in the CAM role when we are SCREAMING for some width. Yes, Josefzoon may be frustrating but at least he fulfils the role of a winger and offers us width. As soon as he came on he stretched the Cardiff defence and actually created chances. We need wingers playing on the wing not Lawrence and Waghorn who evidently are not. That was our problem against Cardiff and has been a recurring problem this season thus far, but there is definitely no need to panic. We will get better once we get past the Leeds game because then this run of difficult fixtures will finally be behind us. 

[BondJovi]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Lampard bonded with the players - and fans - and was a better man manager.

cocu seems more cerebral and seems to rely more on his assistants to cajole the players.

although cocu had a great playing career, he doesn't quite have the aura that lampard had. 

A better man manager? I am not sure Marriott would agree. How can you possibly know?

All this bonding with the fans crap has only become an issue because Lampard was totally wrapped up in it. His first job, over excited, but we warmed to him more like a favourite player than a manager.

Unrealistic and not fair to expect the same from Cocu, a manager who has already won plenty and had things not work. Why would he get carried away this early on? 

We have gone from a cute puppy to a fully grown mutt, once fans get past that they will see we are all the better for it. Some fans still haven't put their pants back on after Lampard charmed them off.

A club at our level getting a manager with the pedigree of Cocu is ridiculous. Given time we will hopefully see the benefits of that. And I saw those small signs against Cardiff.

[TimRam]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Lampard bonded with the players - and fans - and was a better man manager.

cocu seems more cerebral and seems to rely more on his assistants to cajole the players.

although cocu had a great playing career, he doesn't quite have the aura that lampard had. 

I agree with this. Lampards season was one of the best in recent years for that.

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Lampard bonded with the players - and fans - and was a better man manager.

cocu seems more cerebral and seems to rely more on his assistants to cajole the players.

although cocu had a great playing career, he doesn't quite have the aura that lampard had. 

I think charisma is an apt description.

[angieram]

47 minutes ago, AlfonzoBurlonzo said:

And you've deciphered this from 7 games? Jesus Christ man.

Anyway, in my opinion we have nothing to worry about. Look at the 7 games we've had. That is a horrendous run of games for a new manager to have to deal with. The one game you probably would've looked at as the easiest on paper before the season started was Swansea at home and bar their defeat today they had won all their other games - and we should've beaten them comfortably really. The signs are there that we can be a good side.

The problem I have with Lawrence is that he plays as a winger when he just is not a winger. He cuts inside at every possible opportunity, often positions himself in the CAM role when we are SCREAMING for some width. Yes, Josefzoon may be frustrating but at least he fulfils the role of a winger and offers us width. As soon as he came on he stretched the Cardiff defence and actually created chances. We need wingers playing on the wing not Lawrence and Waghorn who evidently are not. That was our problem against Cardiff and has been a recurring problem this season thus far, but there is definitely no need to panic. We will get better once we get past the Leeds game because then this run of difficult fixtures will finally be behind us. 

If Lawrence and Waghorn were willfully disobeying instructions in doing what they are doing match after match I think they'd be hauled from the team. I think they are playing that way because that's how they are being told to play.

If that's the case, then blame the tactics, rather than the player.

Anyway, no-one was criticising Lawrence for cutting inside at Huddersfield, were they? 

[angieram]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Lampard bonded with the players - and fans - and was a better man manager.

cocu seems more cerebral and seems to rely more on his assistants to cajole the players.

although cocu had a great playing career, he doesn't quite have the aura that lampard had. 

I sort of agree and disagree with you here, Ramnut. I think you're right about Lampard's bonding - it's very visually apparent and interestingly, Tomori referred to how much the players want to do well for him in his post match interview on MOTD last night. It's an innate talent and I think @Tyler Durden coins it right when he talks about charisma.

However; Cocu may be as good, but less demonstrative, as a man manager - we'll see when he's had more time to demonstrate it through the football we play and the players' development - it's far too early to call that yet.

Secondly, I always had that sneaky feeling that Lampard was never tested in the man management department because he never really came across tough times here and he did have more talent at his disposal than Cocu currently has, for sure. I thought we might see more of how much time the bonding would buy him at Chelsea if they struggled this season but so far they are clicking very early for him - that charisma again. 

I know what you mean about Cocu's aura and I am desperately missing the "fun feeling" from last year but I am also trying to be grown up about it all and am learning to appreciate Cocu for who he is, rather than berating him for who he isn't. 

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

Lampard bonded with the players - and fans - and was a better man manager.

cocu seems more cerebral and seems to rely more on his assistants to cajole the players.

although cocu had a great playing career, he doesn't quite have the aura that lampard had. 

Personally I think the bonding would look much jollier if Cocu had Mount, Tomori and Wilson to bring a smile!

[RandomAccessMemory]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Lampard bonded with the players - and fans - and was a better man manager.

cocu seems more cerebral and seems to rely more on his assistants to cajole the players.

although cocu had a great playing career, he doesn't quite have the aura that lampard had. 

Not necessarily you from the comment I've quoted, but I've seen quite a few mention Lampard's relationship with the players and fans, I feel most are judging that from the end of last season though, where it had grown during the season through different experiences and situations, not at the same point where I can't remember it being too different to now.

Also let us not forget in our 7th game last season we'd just lost to Rotherham. We've had (on paper - I know Stoke and Huddersfield are at the bottom, but I'm not sure anyone would have predicted that pre season when every team starts with a clean slate believing they're going to have a great season?) a much more difficult start this season and had our side decimated by the loans going back and the injuries we've had, I'm really not surprised we've had a slow start, but I agree with the people saying they're seeing the green shoots of what's to come.

I thought Holmes was fantastic, we've really missed his directness and putting him in the middle meant he could put them under pressure with it a lot, so glad he's back.

I'm another that finds Lawrence's performances frustrating at times, but I really like him, and that's reason I find them frustrating, because I know there's a really good player in there, we've seen it at times, but we don't see it often enough. I don't think it's a lack of trying, I actually think it's the opposite, I think he's trying to force it, maybe that's why he gets himself booked so often for daft things as he's getting frustrated when things aren't coming off and he's wondering what more he has to do? Could be why he had such a good first game of the season, new season, everyone has a clean slate and it felt like the pressure was off, so it let him play his natural game and he played really well, then it comes to the next game and everyone expects him to do it again, so there's pressure on him and when it doesn't go his way he starts forcing it which makes the situation worse?

I thought Clarke looked a little shaky in the first half, but much improved in the second, and it was a great clearance off the line! This time last season I seem to remember Tomori looked a little shaky too, and look how brilliant he was later on, so I'm not at all concerned, hopefully the partnership with Keogh will continue to gel with more games.

It looked like having Bielik (what a great signing he looks by the way!) by his side let Huddlestone play with a little more freedom, I thought he was much more involved in the play than he has been. Will be interesting to see if it's something we continue to do, or if it was a tactic due to the very specific way Cardiff play, which Cocu alluded to in the pre match press conference.

Malone was everywhere, looked like he had a point to prove and some fire in his belly, it was great to see that.

I like Waghorn out on the right and also like that by doing that it means we can get Marriott on the pitch at the same time, think he's been very involved whilst he's been out there too, our best performer in that position so far this season for me.

Great to see Martin get some game time, sounds like Cocu likes him but felt he wasn't ready fitness wise until now, interesting to see if he continues to be involved when Bennett gets back, if we continue with Waghorn out wide I'd feel there's certainly space for both Bennett as a Waghorn alternative out on the right and Martin as a Marriott alternative in the middle.

[Tamworthram]

6 hours ago, Birdyabroad said:

It’s really interesting how polysemic football games can be.

I confess that, living in Devon, I don’t go to many games. I have, therefore, to rely on the old, cough, cough, VPN to watch them.

But, from my computer screen, I actually thought the following about Fridays game:

- Thought we were the much better team. I think Cocu is definitely the right man but has been dogged by some early season bad luck, I.e., the ref not awarding a pen for the foul on Waghorn. 2-0 up and we’ve probably won the game

- I enjoyed last year but anyone who thinks we’ve downgraded in the managerial dept since the departure of Lampard is looking through rose tinted glasses. I can’t say I fully knew our identity under Lamps and we were most definitely propped-up by three quality loans, all of whom probably wouldn’t have returned this year even if Lamps has stayed.

- Under Cocu, I thinking I’m seeing the green shoots of a ‘footballing side’ take shape, he just hasn’t got the right personnel, YET

- I actually thought Lawrence did okay. People on here question his football brain, but it looked to me that he was trying to do the right thing and did play some nice lay-offs in attacking positions

- I also (Tin hat time) thought the ref had a good game. He was letting play continue, for both sides, and wasn’t blowing the whistle every 30 seconds. This is football and not basketball, I like that he was allowing some sturdier challenges 

So, like I say, everyone reads a game differently, but I actually think we’re in a good place. I turned the game off thinking that I’d much rather be Derby than Cardiff, parachute payments and all.

Polysemic !

Don't you hate it when Rees-Mogg posts a message on this board and send us less educated folk off googling the meaning of words (or is it just me?)

[GenBr]

7 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

This criticism of one player constantly to the point of hounding him out the team is so so boring and so so typical of our entitled minority of the fan base. 

 

Fair enough he’s not been at the races but he’s not nearly as bad as some of the drama queens on here are making out. 

He loses possession? He actually tries things. Imagine having wingers who never attempted to dribble past players but instead chose to go sideways. You’d soon be accusing him of breaking down attacks for that instead. 

Marriott did just as little, lost the ball just as much but is not criticised by any of these Lawrence critics because it’s ‘swing low jack marriott’. 

 

Boils my piss. 

Its not criticism of just one player. Any player who plays poorly for a number of games in a row is criticised and rightfully so. People aren't criticising him because he loses the ball - they are criticising him for the manner in which he loses the ball and his petulance when he loses it. 

You can try and police what people say about players  be a happy clapper all you like, but if someone has a poor game the fans can and will criticise him as much as they like. Lawrence has been poor in every game since Huddersfield and for me that is partly down to him being played in the wrong position, but it is mostly down to his own failings especially his decision making at times and his petulant nature whenever he loses the ball. The only reason he hasn't been dropped like Dowell is because we have no wingers in the team at all. A spell on the bench will do him good and hopefully he comes back playing better.

Marriott very nearly scored the winner for us and did not lose the ball anywhere near as much Lawrence - primarily because the attacks usually broke down before they got anywhere near him, but I'm sure you can pick any player and try and spin it to make your point.

[Sith Happens]

1 minute ago, GenBr said:

Its not criticism of just one player. Any player who plays poorly for a number of games in a row is criticised and rightfully so. People aren't criticising him because he loses the ball - they are criticising him for the manner in which he loses the ball and his petulance when he loses it. 

You can try and police what people say about players  be a happy clapper all you like, but if someone has a poor game the fans can and will criticise him as much as they like. Lawrence has been poor in every game since Huddersfield and for me that is partly down to him being played in the wrong position, but it is mostly down to his own failings especially his decision making at times and his petulant nature whenever he loses the ball. The only reason he hasn't been dropped like Dowell is because we have no wingers in the team at all. A spell on the bench will do him good and hopefully he comes back playing better.

Marriott very nearly scored the winner for us and did not lose the ball anywhere near as much Lawrence - primarily because the attacks usually broke down before they got anywhere near him, but I'm sure you can pick any player and try and spin it to make your point.

I think the thing that annoys us so called happy clappers is not the genuine opinions but those massive knee jerk comments about being the biggest waste of money or worst player ever and the delight at a booking to miss a game.

For me criticism is fine but you don't read the forum enough if you don't believe it can become obsessive.

The threads on keogh were enough to prove this with silence for weeks but almost jubilation if a ball was misplaced or a mistake led to a goal. Seriously in the old thread someone who was a well known critic of keogh stated him scoring a goal was worthy of criticism because his job is being a defender.

Thankfully keogh shut most people up. I don't know if its at the worst point yet for tom but i genuinely believe that with some players a certain set of fans take a dislike and will over analyse the players game looking for points to be critical about. If i felt the same about Waghorn,  which i dont,  i could easily make a case that his errors or lack of accuracy have cost us more points than any other player this season, yet you hardly hear a word said.

Im not aiming this at you, its just a reaction to what i think has been an overreaction from certain fans this season and particularly this weekend.

 

[ram1964]

On 13/09/2019 at 20:41, rammieib said:

Anyone actually know what the Cocu style of play is? 

Lose or draw at any cost?

[RamNut]

6 hours ago, AlfonzoBurlonzo said:

And you've deciphered this from 7 games? Jesus Christ man.

I know , its impressive but no need to praise me that high.

 

[RamNut]

6 hours ago, BondJovi said:

A better man manager? I am not sure Marriott would agree. How can you possibly know?

Generally his comments in interviews etc always seemed to be well judged. He had an ex-players perception. I think the players took to him, but i agree the treatment of marriott seemed a bit strange from the outside.

....but not much different to cocu's treatment of shinnie, or rowett's treatment of hughes and bryson, etc etc.

there will always be winners and losers.