Cocu up to now

[angieram]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Think he's gone back to Slovenia

He's been popping back and forth so I do wonder if he's still having trials over here.

I commented on one of his Instagram posts, saying I hoped he'd get a club soon on the last time he was here and he liked it. Bit of a flimsy clue, but I'll take it!

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, angieram said:

I don't think we're disagreeing and I think it's the team blend that has to be right to achieve creativity, rather than the responsibility of one individual.

That's the thing that Cocu is still working on and he needs time to achieve it. Other people who are calling out individual players as not good enough are not helping. They may be the right players but in the wrong combination at the moment.

Yeah, you're spot on. We're still tinkering around trying to find the right team balance. I think we should try including Knight and Bielik in the same midfield, and then play around with the 3rd spot to try find out what works best. It always becomes hard to identify the problems when the balance is offset, once you find some semblance of regularity then we'll be able to see the positions we need to improve most.

[RandomAccessMemory]

1 hour ago, Edtheram said:

I think Cocu should be given a free hit this season to sort the problems out and try his best to set in stone a style players and fans alike buy into. I am concerned that whenever the word "youth" or "academy" is mentioned most supporters wet there pants. Im all for bringing through youth but only the players who are good enough. Knight, Sibley i can safely say have a future in the game at this level, Buchanan divides opinion for me at this stage. I dont think Bird will be in the championship hes no better than who we have and is very similar to Butterfield in that he goes back and sideways with his passing, Whittaker and Lawson arnt ready either. i want him to bring youth into the team when they prove that they can play at this level, how many youth players do we expect to come through at once usually it is max 2 out of 25+. Sometimes i feel like we watch them have a good game for the U23s and brandish them as the new Hughes or think they have the attacking ability of Mbappe. What im trying to say is, Cocu can integrate youth all he likes but this season shouldn't just be a throwaway youth trial, Only play who is capeable of providing for the team.

They're all 17, 18 or 19 years old, no one can expect them to be the finished article at those ages, let us see how they progress given time to do so.

We signed Butterfield when he was in his mid 20's and he had played over 12000 minutes of senior football by then, Bird is 18 and has played 320 minutes for our first team. It's not really a fair comparison to make at this point in his career, give him chance to adjust.

[angieram]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Yeah, you're spot on. We're still tinkering around trying to find the right team balance. I think we should try including Knight and Bielik in the same midfield, and then play around with the 3rd spot to try find out what works best. It always becomes hard to identify the problems when the balance is offset, once you find some semblance of regularity then we'll be able to see the positions we need to improve most.

Yes, I am tempted to add we won't get that right balance while Huddlestone is in the team but then I would be contradicting myself by calling out individual players!

[Andicis]

Just now, angieram said:

Yes, I am tempted to add we won't get that right balance while Huddlestone is in the team but then I would be contradicting myself by calling out individual players!

I'm with you on the Huddlestone bit though. Baffles me how he continues to start, his passing is too slow, he can't get around the pitch, he has basically two passes which are the long diagonal, and the diagonal chipped ball into the box that is always caught by the keeper. I think he'd be much better if he just moved the ball on like Eustace did.

[Bob The Badger]

4 hours ago, Warren Hobhead said:

Whilst we will soon be employing a close to retirement Rooney in what is clearly a marketing ploy rather than a football decision.

To me it's clearly a marketing decision AND a footballing decision. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

And anybody who has seen Rooney play this season and some of the goals he has scored, will know that 5-months of that could be the difference between being promoted and not.

What's the difference between taking a player who is coming to the end of his career and probably won't be with us next season and taking players like Mount, Tomori and Wilson who were never going to contribute past that one season either?

[Marriot Ram99]

I can't stand all the people saying Rooney will do duck all and is just signed for the publicity,  if you think Rooney can't contribute more than someone like Lawrence or Dowell then you need your head checking or you just hate him as a person so have a biased view of him. He is still a great passer and still has a world class ability to striker a ball whether that be a set piece or powerful drive from the edge of the box.

[S8TY]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

My goodness you seem to be able to take a few sentences and weave a fantastic tale out of them. ?

All I can go on is what I see on the pitch and the league table - what is wrong with that? I'm not privy to Mel and Cocus meetings, nor the training ground talks, etc, etc. What are you judging on.

I don't weave anything Roy I'm reacting to what you said as it doesnt make sense 

You say you go on what you see and the league table and come out with flippant statements about his time at fenerbache saying should they have waited until they got relegated before they got rid etc etc, then say it was a question ???? you're critical at an early stage of Cocu's time here because you're mentioning the league table after a handful of games and what you've seen on the pitch but Cocu himself has not been happy and needs time that should be afforded to him thats all I'm saying....he may be a success he may not but he needs time to be judged....Pep had an indifferent first season at City and yet now City play how he has coached them too so it takes time even for the best   it seems you haven't got the balls to admit to being critical and say its just a question when it clearly is a dig because you mention the table and what you see on the pitch.....Its by no means great at the moment but he's been here 8 weeks!!!!

[KCG]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

Yes, I am tempted to add we won't get that right balance while Huddlestone is in the team but then I would be contradicting myself by calling out individual players!

You've called him out before. Sometimes we have to be honest with our opinions, but we shouldn't be nasty about it.

[Mazzaram]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

Yeah, you're spot on. We're still tinkering around trying to find the right team balance. I think we should try including Knight and Bielik in the same midfield, and then play around with the 3rd spot to try find out what works best. It always becomes hard to identify the problems when the balance is offset, once you find some semblance of regularity then we'll be able to see the positions we need to improve most.

I agree. Bielik and Knight, with perhaps Evans or Holmes.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

I'm with you on the Huddlestone bit though. Baffles me how he continues to start, his passing is too slow, he can't get around the pitch, he has basically two passes which are the long diagonal, and the diagonal chipped ball into the box that is always caught by the keeper. I think he'd be much better if he just moved the ball on like Eustace did.

I think playing him at the base of a diamond would suit him perfectly as his passing range would be complimented by the box-to-box running of Holmes/Knight/Shinnie

[Andicis]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I think playing him at the base of a diamond would suit him perfectly as his passing range would be complimented by the box-to-box running of Holmes/Knight/Shinnie

I don't think he's good at passing. I genuinely don't. I think he's been billed as this incredible passer, yet his repertoire of passing is mainly 2 passes, the long diagonal and the chipped diagonal. With the occasional simple back and sideways pass which he takes too long on anyway. George Thorne was a miles better passer than Huddlestone is.  

[Srg]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

I don't think he's good at passing. I genuinely don't. I think he's been billed as this incredible passer, yet his repertoire of passing is mainly 2 passes, the long diagonal and the chipped diagonal. With the occasional simple back and sideways pass which he takes too long on anyway. George Thorne was a miles better passer than Huddlestone is.  

I guess his vision is decent and he's usually very accurate with what he does, which is why he's labelled as a good passer. But I agree with everything what you're saying. It's usually not too progressive and the pace of it is the biggest problem.

[RoyMac5]

39 minutes ago, Saity said:

...it seems you haven't got the balls to admit to being critical and say its just a question when it clearly is a dig because you mention the table and what you see on the pitch.....Its by no means great at the moment but he's been here 8 weeks!!!!

? When did I say I wasn't being critical? Of course I was, Cocu put out a team of youngsters to play and lose poorly to F*rest. Good for you if you're happy with that. 

[S8TY]

8 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I don't think he's good at passing. I genuinely don't. I think he's been billed as this incredible passer, yet his repertoire of passing is mainly 2 passes, the long diagonal and the chipped diagonal. With the occasional simple back and sideways pass which he takes too long on anyway. George Thorne was a miles better passer than Huddlestone is.  

 Tom gets a hard time on here and yet is a fantastic footballer at the wrong end of his career but to say Thorne is better than Huddlestone is rubbish.....Huddlestone has always been fairly slow but no one can question his football skills and he is a good passer

When we talk about one of our own with Hughes and Bennett they seem to forget that Tom is one of our own and seems to get a lot of critisicm on here some of it unwarranted

I saw his debut for us and has played at the top level at Spurs,Hull and England and is a classy player, slow yes but none the less a very good player but maybe more suited now to a slower paced game like the Italian league now 

[S8TY]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

? When did I say I wasn't being critical? Of course I was, Cocu put out a team of youngsters to play and lose poorly to F*rest. Good for you if you're happy with that. 

Your usual happy critical self I see.....try and look beyond the woods Roy it might help 

[Andicis]

12 minutes ago, Saity said:

 Tom gets a hard time on here and yet is a fantastic footballer at the wrong end of his career but to say Thorne is better than Huddlestone is rubbish.....Huddlestone has always been fairly slow but no one can question his football skills and he is a good passer

When we talk about one of our own with Hughes and Bennett they seem to forget that Tom is one of our own and seems to get a lot of critisicm on here some of it unwarranted

I saw his debut for us and has played at the top level at Spurs,Hull and England and is a classy player, slow yes but none the less a very good player but maybe more suited now to a slower paced game like the Italian league now 

Thorne was miles better than Huddlestone at passing, it wasn't even close. Much better all round player, too. I'm questioning his football skills. What makes him a good passer? He's very slow to move the ball, only does a few predictable types of passes, so what is he meant to be great at? Spurs were hardly great when he was a first team regular, let alone top level. 

[JoeDerby]

I was very impressed with the first game against Huddersfield, we seem to have got worse and worse with each game. What's happened !?!?

[angieram]

45 minutes ago, KCG said:

You've called him out before. Sometimes we have to be honest with our opinions, but we shouldn't be nasty about it.

Yes, I try only to comment on a particular performance though, rather than making a generalisation. Someone else on the thread has said there's no bad players at this level and I agree. It doesn't necessarily mean that they will all fit with the current style and complement the other players available.

In our current situation, something isn't quite working smoothly. If you gradually change all the components but one and nothing improves, then sooner or later you have to question that component, too. But there are so many permutations in a squad our size that could take you several seasons to achieve. Some of it has to be instinct (and possible preference) as well. That's why managers get paid so much - to search out the elusive ingredients that make the perfect recipe for success!

[S8TY]

8 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Thorne was miles better than Huddlestone at passing, it wasn't even close. Much better all round player, too. I'm questioning his football skills. What makes him a good passer? He's very slow to move the ball, only does a few predictable types of passes, so what is he meant to be great at? Spurs were hardly great when he was a first team regular, let alone top level. 

Thorne hasn't even played at the top level although still a good player when he was fit ....Huddlestone was well liked by the Spurs fans as I work with a few of them and he can pass although yes he's slower now but he's always been a good passer his career stats say he's better than you suggest and Spurs were still a good side when he played there I agree he's probably not right for us anymore but I've seen him have great games and has good ball control and vision but what has let him down is his goals ratio...we can agree to disagree but I'm just saying I've always seen him as a good footballer and he's come from our academy and has had a good career probably held back by his immobilty which has never been great....I actually liked him as a CB as well