Cocu up to now

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

The record signing having played around 30 minutes in the position he's been brought in to fill and Rooney not due until January.

It's unlike you to be so impatient mate!

I'm incredibly frustrated at the Forest game. I can stomach a slow start, but the Forest game left a really bitter taste, to be honest. I'm nowhere close to being in the Cocu out camp, but I don't think it's fair to say he didn't get financial backing, because he has had some. 

[IslandExile]

16 minutes ago, Andicis said:

We made our record signing this summer and also signed Wayne Rooney?

The general consensus was that Bielik is just what we need and don't have. He's a major improvement.

I have reservations about the accompanying media circus but I thought the idea was that Rooney would, at least, pay for himself in revenues and may attract investment to the club.

Just curious, how would you like us to proceed? Splash the cash? Change managers again?

[Andicis]

Just now, IslandExile said:

The general consensus was that Bielik is just what we need and don't have. He's a major improvement.

I have reservations about the accompanying media circus but I thought the idea was that Rooney would, at least, pay for himself in revenues and may attract investment to the club.

Just curious, how would you like us to proceed? Splash the cash? Change managers again?

I'd like us to stick with Cocu. I just don't really like the huge amount of excuses being made for him at the minute. We're not in dire straights by any means, but the shutting down of criticism of him is making me want to point out other negative points to add a little balance in the discussion. 

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I'm incredibly frustrated at the Forest game. I can stomach a slow start, but the Forest game left a really bitter taste, to be honest. I'm nowhere close to being in the Cocu out camp, but I don't think it's fair to say he didn't get financial backing, because he has had some. 

I know mate and you're sharp enough to know that's exactly what I was angling at. Just don't let it spoil things. There'll be plenty more water under the bridge not least of which are two league games against the Gumps ?Look out for rather stronger line ups in both! The footballing gods being the way they are, we'll probably get them in the FA Cup too now! 

[IslandExile]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

I'd like us to stick with Cocu. I just don't really like the huge amount of excuses being made for him at the minute. We're not in dire straights by any means, but the shutting down of criticism of him is making me want to point out other negative points to add a little balance in the discussion. 

Cool.

And constructive criticism should never be "shut down".

I, myself, was really torn on the selection v. Forest. I think Cocu misjudged that. (That said, there was a strong case for leaving out each player who was in the team for WBA).

However, and not necessarily you but others have been saying Brentford is make or break for Cocu - how ridiculous is that?

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I know mate and you're sharp enough to know that's exactly what I was angling at. Just don't let it spoil things. There'll be plenty more water under the bridge not least of which are two league games against the Gumps ?The footballing gods being the way they are, we'll probably get them in the FA Cup too now! 

Just feels like we've only regressed from last season, and it's irritating having to listen to smug Leeds and Forest fans, whilst we don't seem to have got our poo together, which is understandable with the situation all things considered, but it feels like we've been here before. Losing at Wembley feels like we have fallen off a cliff and have to go through another long arduous climb, and we almost never get there. Since I've been watching Derby, we've been in the Premier League once, and we all know what happened that time.

Just feels quite hard to take seeing how far we've fallen from Wembley.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, IslandExile said:

Cool.

And constructive criticism should never be "shut down".

I, myself, was really torn on the selection v. Forest. I think Cocu misjudged that. (That said, there was a strong case for leaving out each player who was in the team for WBA).

However, and not necessarily you but others have been saying Brentford is make or break for Cocu - how ridiculous is that?

It shouldn't be make or break at all. Yet it feels that way. I feel like the negative side of our fan base is going to have a really big backlash against Cocu if we lose at Brentford, which doesn't make it right, but I could definitely see it happening. I truly hope for Cocu's sake we go out there and win comfortably and then it's this chapter over, and we can all just move forward.

[IslandExile]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Just feels like we've only regressed from last season, and it's irritating having to listen to smug Leeds and Forest fans, whilst we don't seem to have got our poo together, which is understandable with the situation all things considered, but it feels like we've been here before. Losing at Wembley feels like we have fallen off a cliff and have to go through another long arduous climb, and we almost never get there. Since I've been watching Derby, we've been in the Premier League once, and we all know what happened that time.

Just feels quite hard to take seeing how far we've fallen from Wembley.

Which is exactly why we need to build for the longer term and not just limp into the playoffs again.

But that will take longer and football fans everywhere just don't have the patience. Well, not just football fans of my kids are anything to go by.

[Andicis]

Just now, IslandExile said:

Which is exactly why we need to build for the longer term and not just limp into the playoffs again.

But that will take longer and football fans everywhere just don't have the patience. Well, not just football fans of my kids are anything to go by.

More than happy to do so. Seeing academy players coming good is always very nice. But I would like to see some semblance of cohesion with us. We don't look overly capable of scoring goals at the moment, and the result is, we're rather boring to watch. 

[atherstoneram]

should have posted this on here rather than Cocu(s) out

I think because of Cocu's success in Holland a lot of fans thought he would come in and hit the ground running, have instant success and be riding high in the league.Mel 's aim when Cocu was announced as our new manager if you recollect was to bring academy players into the First team which he is doing and doing well IMO, at least with Cocu they are being given the chance and the early signs are encouraging..

We now come to that much loved word "transition", some say we have been in transition with the last Several managers, no we haven't we have been in "continuity" with them because they have all continued to knock on the chairmans door saying i want players in who suit my style of play and look what we have been left with,not the most inspiring of signings. With Cocu it really is a transition period, a period that has been sadly lacking for some time. Cocu knows it's not going to be an easy job,nor does Mel, that's why he has a 4 year contract but i honestly believe with Cocu's previous of working with youngsters will get through this early phase. We have tried before to buy instant success, has it worked, has it hell. 

There are people on here who are already moaning after Seven weeks, strewth what will they be like after Seven months, for those saying if we are not top half by christmas he will be gone, what a load of baalocks. I understand concerns and frustrations but get behind MeL, get behind Cocu and hIs assistants but most of all get behind the lads COYRl

[IslandExile]

Just now, Andicis said:

More than happy to do so. Seeing academy players coming good is always very nice. But I would like to see some semblance of cohesion with us. We don't look overly capable of scoring goals at the moment, and the result is, we're rather boring to watch. 

Agreed but I think that's a lot down to the preseason, shortened by the playoffs and delayed by Chelsea.

I think Cocu is having to play catch up, not helped by injuries and fitness of key players.

No fault of theirs but Dowell and Paterson are not at the same level as the loans we were lucky enough to have last year but which, I think, masked how poor the rest of the squad really is.

[Andicis]

Just now, IslandExile said:

Agreed but I think that's a lot down to the preseason, shortened by the playoffs and delayed by Chelsea.

I think Cocu is having to play catch up, not helped by injuries and fitness of key players.

No fault of theirs but Dowell and Paterson are not at the same level as the loans we were lucky enough to have last year but which, I think, masked how poor the rest of the squad really is.

Don't disagree with any of it. And yet I do feel a bit frustrated watching us play, it feels like we can knock the ball around tidily enough but never really look like we have much threat of actually scoring a goal with it. I know it's partly down to Cocu wanting to control play, and not be gungho like a McClaren side was, the more pragmatic approach, but as a fan I do find it a bit tedious. We definitely need more quality in the final 3rd.

[Comrade 86]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Just feels like we've only regressed from last season, and it's irritating having to listen to smug Leeds and Forest fans, whilst we don't seem to have got our poo together, which is understandable with the situation all things considered, but it feels like we've been here before. Losing at Wembley feels like we have fallen off a cliff and have to go through another long arduous climb, and we almost never get there. Since I've been watching Derby, we've been in the Premier League once, and we all know what happened that time.

Just feels quite hard to take seeing how far we've fallen from Wembley.

Get that but cast your mind back. The humbling by Leeds early doors after looking great in pre-season, totally written off by all bar a few just 2 or 3 games before the play offs, only to silence the doubters and reach the final. Are we really miles behind that team? Let's wait until we've seen Bogle and Lowe flanking Keogh and Clarke, Bielik sat in front dominating the midfiled a la George Thorned, Duawayne showing us what we've been missing and a fluid forward line with Waggers and Jack in  a two. And then there's Rooooooooooney. If we still look poo, we can both have a moan together!

As for the gobby scummers, Leeds will do what they do and run out of steam....maybe. Forest will book the open-top bus and look proper Bamfords when they only finish 12th. Derby fans will laugh a lot, mind the gap jokes will abound and we can all sing Stop Crying Bielsa as another crazy season ends with another play-off lottery. It's the Derby way, after all!

[sonofmidnight]

As somebody who believes that Cocu got in wrong against Forest and who believes that success breeds success I would like to point out that I agree we give Cocu more time before we make any judgement on his ability as a manager for Derby County and yes we desperately need stability. However at the moment I can't honestly say I've enjoyed the matches I've attended and I certainly won't be forking out my hard earned cash to attend pre season friendlies or cup matches again for the foreseeable future. What's the point of going when the line up stands no chance of winning. Indeed why bother playing the match at all.

[Andicis]

Just now, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Get that but cast your mind back. The humbling by Leeds early doors after looking great in pre-season, totally written off by all bar a few just 2 or 3 games before the play offs, only to silence the doubters and reach the final. Are we really miles behind that team? Let's wait until we've seen Bogle and Lowe flanking Keogh and Clarke, Bielik sat in front dominating the midfiled a la George Thorned, Duawayne showing us what we've been missing and a fluid forward line with Waggers and Jack in  a two. And then there's Rooooooooooney. If we still look poo, we can both have a moan together!

As for the gobby scummers, Leeds will do what they do and run out of steam....maybe. Forest will book the open-top bus and look proper Bamfords when they only finish 12th. Derby fans will laugh a lot, mind the gap jokes will abound and we can all sing Stop Crying Bielsa as another crazy season ends with another play-off lottery. It's the Derby way, after all!

The optimism is infectious, and I really appreciate it. I know we have a lot of good pieces in there, it's just how it fits together, it feels like sooner or later it has to click, we have players and coaching staff too good for it to not too, you would have to assume. Last season just seemed, even when it was a bit darker in the season like getting tonked away at Elland Road, spygate etc that it was everyone together, this season with Malone slagging off the fans, Bennett getting abused on Twitter etc that the club seems a whole lot more fractured. 

As for Forest and Leeds, absolutely desperate for them to both derail.

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The optimism is infectious, and I really appreciate it. I know we have a lot of good pieces in there, it's just how it fits together, it feels like sooner or later it has to click, we have players and coaching staff too good for it to not too, you would have to assume. Last season just seemed, even when it was a bit darker in the season like getting tonked away at Elland Road, spygate etc that it was everyone together, this season with Malone slagging off the fans, Bennett getting abused on Twitter etc that the club seems a whole lot more fractured. 

As for Forest and Leeds, absolutely desperate for them to both derail.

Well that was nearly cheerful ?

Anyway, my work here is done. I've no more game to give!

Super early start as heading off on a road trip tomoz which hopefully culminates in seeing us giving Brentford a good hiding. If we don't, I may not visit the forum again until next year, such will be the meltdown.

What it is to be a Rams fan huh!

COYR

[atherstoneram]

This all comes down to pre-season with the Lampard saga. Mel had Cocu in the background waiting to be unveiled as our next manager but with Chelsea and Lampard messing us about Cocu couldn't be brought in as early as Mel wanted,as the club wanted and as a result Cocu is having to deal with things now that should and could have been dealt with preseason ie.sorting out his best Eleven,formations etc,even possibly including the transfer targets we had in our sights. Even the international break won't be much help with senior/youngsters being called up, this will have a ripple effect all season. 

[lukedcfc]

I am behind Cocu 100%, buying a proper winger may come back to bite him though. 

[S8TY]

 

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

How long should Fenerbache have given him, until they were relegated (if there is such a thing in their league)? Cocu has proved nothing yet in the English leagues. All we can go on is what we see on the pitch and the league table.

There was a lot of non football factors regarding his tenure at Fenerbache if you read about it and if we were judging him on that he wouldn't have even got the job.....he's been here 8 weeks !!!!! for goodness sake give him some time judge what you see on the pitch when he's had a window or two or has had half a season at least

He inherited a squad very late in the summer and didn't go gun ho in the transfer market but has instead decided to assess the young talent and give them a chance  and what is wrong with that ??

We do have some very good young players and he's assessing the squad and will put his own mark on it in time both on the training ground and in personnel.....its quite alarming hearing some fans expecting miracles in just a few weeks and we have lost one league game

I have no doubts that the team that starts next season will look very different to what started this season and I admire Cocu for giving everyone a chance including players like Anya, Martin and Thorne who have contributed very little over the last few seasons 

This project  will take time so please give the man a break....jeeeeeeez!

 

[RoyMac5]

34 minutes ago, Saity said:

 

There was a lot of non football factors regarding his tenure at Fenerbache if you read about it and if we were judging him on that he wouldn't have even got the job.....he's been here 8 weeks !!!!! for goodness sake give him some time judge what you see on the pitch when he's had a window or two or has had half a season at least

 

Who is judging? I'm just asking questions - you don't think that Mel will have thought these things too? Or did he just stick a pin in the managers handbook!