v WBA (H) Match Thread

[Harrowram]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

That's funny because his first penalty went to the goalkeepers right

Most of them go to the left. Swansea worked that out which is why his penalty was saved.

[DcFc Dyycheee]

Very frustrating game overall. I like Knight a lot, thought he had a great debut. Few little passes he should be doing better with, but I love his desire and drive. I hope he gets a run of games. 

I think we'll have a lot of games like that this season. We seriously lack quality in midfield and on the wing. Not signing a top winger will prove to be very costly. 

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, Harrowram said:

Most of them go to the left. Swansea worked that out which is why his penalty was saved.

2 out of 4 have gone to the left...

Dont let stats get in the way though 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

And that's why Kane is a Premier League and international striker probably

But you don't have to be a world class player to take a penalty. Just as world class players aren't all good at penalties. Messi is pretty rubbish at them. With a bit of practice and a bit of composure, it shouldn't be difficult to score 95% of your penalties. 

[GenBr]

Lowe very good today especially since he is playing on the wrong side. A bit of inexperience I think for the penalty - he should never have tried to slide in like that in the area regardless of whether he touched the guy. Captain Fantastic looked good as always as did Bielik. Buchanan was alright as well, but first choice fullbacks will be Lowe and Bogle when both fit.

Overall we looked ok today, but we created very little from an attacking perspective. Marriott is not a 10 foot tall target man - stop lumping the ball up to him - he needs the ball to his feet. We got deeper and deeper as the game went on - not even keeping Marriott or Waggers up front as an outlet. Waggers also looked good on the wing as well.

I forgot Dowell was playing for large parts of that game and Lawrence virtually always takes one touch too many before he releases the ball inevitably leading to him losing the ball. Neither of them had a particularly good first touch today and if Dowell is supposed to be our new set piece supremo we may as well just kick the ball out of play immediately and save everyone the hassle. Personally I would be playing Sibley in place of Dowell - he can't be any worse and we at least own Sibley.

 

37 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

So that’s that 0 wins from 3 at home not the start I was hoping for. Ah well, sounded a bit better in parts today. 

Though this Dutch bloke at Everton was supposed to be one of Cocus bessies? If so, couldn’t they have found us a better loan? Or is this the dead hand of our legendary recruitment team at work again?

Not exactly a disaster though is it - we've had to play two parachute payment teams who arguably should be walking this league with the money they can spend and they both failed to beat us and our only loss was to one of the strongest non playoff teams in the division last year.

As for Dowell though may as well play with 10 men on the pitch - if he goes back to Everton I will let them have Lawrence for half price  as well.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, DcFc Dyycheee said:

Very frustrating game overall. I like Knight a lot, thought he had a great debut. Few little passes he should be doing better with, but I love his desire and drive. I hope he gets a run of games. 

I think we'll have a lot of games like that this season. We seriously lack quality in midfield and on the wing. Not signing a top winger will prove to be very costly. 

We were in for their left winger in the summer that came on at half time 

[Highgate]

6 minutes ago, Harrowram said:

Why shouldn't he take it? because his penalty technique is poor. That's why.

I'm not arguing whether he should be the penalty taker or not.  On this season's performance alone you'd have to say that he should be replaced.  My point is merely that it was decided before the game that Waghorn was to be the penalty taker, and he then scores the first penalty...why then would you change penalty taker for the second kick ?

[LeedsRam1999]

This team just massively lacks creativity from midfield.

Dowell was meant to be part of the answer but he has had a dreadful start to the season.

Holmes is the other creative midfielder but he isn’t fully fit yet, maybe a feature against f*rest?

Finally, people knocking Lawrence should know that to make things happen on the pitch you have to try things and you will fail sometimes. His mazy run set up Bennett who should have probably finished that chance. Players like Lawerence will give you a few moments a game and that’s why they are in the team.

Keep the faith and onto the next one.

[Harrowram]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

2 out of 4 have gone to the left...

Dont let stats get in the way though 

and he missed with both penalties that went left. Swansea knew his stats. Five out of the previous six penalties went left. He perhaps has been advised to vary his penalties a tad to make it less predictable as to where the ball might go.

[IslandExile]

Lots of positives.

Game spoilt by the two very poor penalty decisions. I'm generally against VAR but when referees and their assistants have a good view of incidents and still make bad calls, it's hard to argue against it.

Anyhow focus on the positives.... Performance of the kids was really encouraging.

The others mostly played well too.

All put a shift in.

Roos made a couple of top saves and should get the credit he deserves.

The only real negatives for me was that we sat back too much second half (I fear that may be Cocu's tendency from what's been said on here). That said, most teams nowadays like to break and we're pretty good at it.

I think some of the comments about Dowell are OTT but even I feel he needs to impose himself more in games - and practice his free kicks.

[LittleEatonRam]

I'm amazed that so many people on here are literally pinning our current start to the season on Waghorn. Ordinarily if you single out a player on here you get pelters, but it seems it's OK in this instance for some reason.

This kind of criticism of Waghorn is absurd, and reminiscent of the flak that Keogh got after Wembley.

[Andicis]

Just now, LittleEatonRam said:

I'm amazed that so many people on here are literally pinning our current start to the season on Waghorn. Ordinarily if you single out a player on here you get pelters, but it seems it's OK in this instance for some reason.

This kind of criticism of Waghorn is absurd, and reminiscent of the flak that Keogh got after Wembley.

The bold part is not true at all. Keogh got more stick after Wembley then any other player I remember in modern times. Waghorn himself admitted that he is probably to blame.

[Carl Sagan]

10 minutes ago, Highgate said:

I don't understand.  Why shouldn't he take it?  He is the designated penalty taker and he's just scored the first penalty.  I can understand taking penalty duties off someone who has missed a penalty earlier in a game, but why someone who has scored?

What advantage did Johnstone really have facing Waghorn a second time in one game?  Presumably he had his homework done and knew Waghorn's preferred penalty before the game even started.  For either penalty, he didn't know whether Waghorn was going to use his favoured kick or not, so nothing has really changed.

It's a suggestion you hear a lot, that penalty takers should be rotated in a game if there is more than one penalty given, but I'd like to see if the stats back it up.  Do players who score one penalty in a game suffer a reduction is success rate when taking a second penalty in the same match?  If they do, I'd like to know why.

I would agree if Waghorn were a good penalty taker, but his penalty technique is very poor because he's not confident enough to go high. If the keeper goes the right way he'll almost certainly save it. And everyone knows (from his track record) that Waghorn's goto penalty is low to the keeper's left because he can hit that harder as a left footer. Every penalty (like today's) placed on the other side (or central) is really underpowered.

We got lucky with the first one but when your penalty taker isn't convincing and has got away with one already, there's no reason to entrust him with another. I knew and the keeper knew he would revert to type. That's why the keeper went left both times today, knowing if it's Waggy's percentage kick. It's easy to rotate Waghorn off penalty duties and maintain his confidence after he's scored and that's what should have happened. It's a win-win situation for Waggy and allows us to switch to a better penalty taker much more likely to score.

Basically I think you're saying Waghorn should have taken the second because he's our designated penalty taker and had already scored. And that's fair enough. I'm saying he shouldn't be on penalties because he's not very good at them, but got lucky the first time and was very unlikely to be lucky twice. 

[King Kevin]

Hmm Mr Cocu has a bit of a job on, to make the playoffs or get promoted you need players at 8 out of 10 for the best part of the season .Some of our established players who can clearly do it on their day are never going to achieve this standard .Waghorn and Lawrence fall into this category.

We then look at the academy players we can't expect them to play every game in a Championship season .We are very weak in midfield ,Huddlestone way past his sell by date and falls into the first category never going to do it week in week out.

Dowell has started poorly [being kind] and is no replacement for Mount.Max Lowe when restored to his correct position will make it I have no doubt on this one and we have Bogle to return .

Holmes will I expect play when fit, but whilst an upgrade on what we have in there at the minute is still not a top grade Championship midfielder .He has to find a formation to get the best out of Jack and stick to it unless we really need change .

Please no two holding midfield players at home , the defence and attack are never going to function without the midfield being the right balance and quality .

I think we are going to have to grin and bare it until January when we can reinforce and I don't just mean Rooney.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

I don't understand why the same penalty taker would ever take two in a game unless they are a dead ball specialist .  You immediately hand the advantage to the goalie re position , pace and height . Matt le tissier perhaps and that's about it .  Think he missed one in 15 years .  Would have been nice to give Marriott a go as well- thought he played well .  

We need to get Bielik in midfield at some point .  Clarke is a miss for him me .  Use him correctly and he is dominant . Dowell is truly awful - bring back Feilharber . I cannot think of a single thing he did today or any other in the three games I've seen.  Awful dive for the West Brom pen .  Swapped him for Gayle clearly-  hope he gets the same ban .  Knight is very promising. 

two points from three home games isn't enough .    Possibly unlucky today and against Swansea .  Didn't see Bristol so will leave opinion on that for others . For those who look at this as a hard start with easier games to come, look at our record against the bottom 5 or 6 teams from last year .   We need to pick up more points at home .No more Waghorn pens please.  I am concerned.

[Van der MoodHoover]

13 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Lowe very good today especially since he is playing on the wrong side. A bit of inexperience I think for the penalty - he should never have tried to slide in like that in the area regardless of whether he touched the guy. Captain Fantastic looked good as always as did Bielik. Buchanan was alright as well, but first choice fullbacks will be Lowe and Bogle when both fit.

Overall we looked ok today, but we created very little from an attacking perspective. Marriott is not a 10 foot tall target man - stop lumping the ball up to him - he needs the ball to his feet. We got deeper and deeper as the game went on - not even keeping Marriott or Waggers up front as an outlet. Waggers also looked good on the wing as well.

I forgot Dowell was playing for large parts of that game and Lawrence virtually always takes one touch too many before he releases the ball inevitably leading to him losing the ball. Neither of them had a particularly good first touch today and if Dowell is supposed to be our new set piece supremo we may as well just kick the ball out of play immediately and save everyone the hassle. Personally I would be playing Sibley in place of Dowell - he can't be any worse and we at least own Sibley.

 

Not exactly a disaster though is it - we've had to play two parachute payment teams who arguably should be walking this league with the money they can spend and they both failed to beat us and our only loss was to one of the strongest non playoff teams in the division last year.

As for Dowell though may as well play with 10 men on the pitch - if he goes back to Everton I will let them have Lawrence for half price  as well.

I tend to look at season on season comparatives where possible and we played all these 3 teams last season, where we won 2 and drew 1.

this year that’s drawn 2 and lost 1. Hence disappointing.

[RamNut]

Much better but a draw was fair.

i was pleased to see the line up. Flat back four with keogh and bielik which players understand.

knight, buchanan and marriott in. We had a much better balance with more attacking players on the pitch.

Knight and buchanan both did well despite some nerves.  Buchanan has a phenomenal throw which hopefully we can use more productively. Knight was excellent. 

second penalty was a daft decision. I knew waghorn would miss, and as often happens, justice was done.

we had some good chances to get a second but were pressed back in the second second half. 

Lots of positives.  

Hilda can take the noose down.

[LazloW]

4 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

I'm amazed that so many people on here are literally pinning our current start to the season on Waghorn. Ordinarily if you single out a player on here you get pelters, but it seems it's OK in this instance for some reason.

This kind of criticism of Waghorn is absurd, and reminiscent of the flak that Keogh got after Wembley.

I wonder if it’s because nobody can take that kind of criticism seriously, so not worth responding to!?  

[TommyPowell]

3 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I would agree if Waghorn were a good penalty taker, but his penalty technique is very poor because he's not confident enough to go high. If the keeper goes the right way he'll almost certainly save it. And everyone knows (from his track record) that Waghorn's goto penalty is low to the keeper's left because he can hit that harder as a left footer. Every penalty (like today's) placed on the other side (or central) is really underpowered.

We got lucky with the first one but when your penalty taker isn't convincing and has got away with one already, there's no reason to entrust him with another. I knew and the keeper knew he would revert to type. That's why the keeper went left both times today, knowing if it's Waggy's percentage kick. It's easy to rotate Waghorn off penalty duties and maintain his confidence after he's scored and that's what should have happened. It's a win-win situation for Waggy and allows us to switch to a better penalty taker much more likely to score.

Basically I think you're saying Waghorn should have taken the second because he's our designated penalty taker and had already scored. And that's fair enough. I'm saying he shouldn't be on penalties because he's not very good at them, but got lucky the first time and was very unlikely to be lucky twice. 

It may be that no other player wants to

[LittleEatonRam]

Just now, Andicis said:

The bold part is not true at all. Keogh got more stick after Wembley then any other player I remember in modern times. Waghorn himself admitted that he is probably to blame.

Well I don't think Waghorn is right to blame himself - he shouldn't. Two penalty misses should not be used as means of glossing over the rest of the team who haven't been much better of late. Even golden boy Marriott had a swing and a miss in front of goal in the second half that you'd expect him to at least make contact with.

And I know it's not the same as Keogh, that's why I said reminiscent rather than equal to.

Again, experienced posters such as yourself normally jump down the throat of people who single out players, but when it's a player you choose to single out suddenly it's fine.