Coc(u) out

[Harrowram]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Are you suggesting that we give our manager until October to win the league?

That's absurd!

We've got brain dead morons booing the team at half time of the 4th match.

This will be the same people that were calling for Jim Smith's head, saying Steve Howard couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo, and writing Tomori off after 4 games last season.

Allied with the behaviour of the idiotic fans at away matches, I'm really embarrassed by our fanbase at times.

You appear to have overreacted completely. I am pointing out that we didn't start the season well last year and that there were initially injury and fitness issues last year as there are this year.I think that Cocu was a good appointment but it might take more than this season for us to be in promotion frame. He has had little time to assess and recruit and hasn't been helped by injuries to key players such as Marriott and Bogle.

[Sexydadbod]

I knew OP was joking before even opening this thread, some of you on here need to lighten up. Maybe the world really did end in 2012, seems nobody can take a light hearted joke anymore without getting offended or getting defensive. 

[BobbyD]

12 hours ago, Squid said:

what a ridiculous statement.  He's calm. composed and reserved. Take a look at Marcelo Bielsa for example, a quality manager who in all fairness is calm like ol' Phil. Just because he doesn't bounce around and dab like our previous manager doesn't mean he's dull and dour. He's probably spending his time on the sideline analysing the game and thinking tactics,

Oh dear, oh dear

What we need is someone who can relate to the players , demonstrate leadership and knowledge and lead from the front. And inspire their players to go beyond even their own expectations.  

Our previous manager had this, and as a result significantly over achieved

Time will tell ( sooner rather than later) if Cocu has the same. Lets hope he does.  

Thus far it is really uninspiring and dreary, although of course it is very early days. 

Interesting that ‘small’ teams who had even more turmoil than us in the pre season don't seem to be moaning about their  ill luck and are just getting on with it - Swansea, Charlton, Hull, Birmingham , Millwall . And other ‘bigger’ teams with much more turmoil than us are doing the same - Forest, Wednesday. 

Try to allow for other viewpoints than you're own, it will really help  you find maturity eventually .

 

 

[Chester40]

On 21/08/2019 at 22:12, BobbyD said:

Im not sure he has it in him to become livid or even animated. 

He's coming across as very dull and even dour, bit like the football so far and his approach to winning matches

Just watched his post match interview...not sure what you want from him? Get down on his knees and punch the ground or start trashing the dugout??

He was very clearly unhappy, and said exactly what I would expect him to say without singling out players. He didn't hide behind excuses or make out we were unlucky. He was very critical of the performance and stressed what needed to change. 

He wasn't exactly ranting and raving but after a handful of games, even fans would be over-reacting if they do that.

He isn't going to be physically expressive, that's not his way and I don't care if he doesn't start the bounce. What he needs to do is identify where we are going wrong and change it... He was honest enough in his assessment, now let's see how he addresses it.   

[BobbyD]

15 hours ago, Chester40 said:

Just watched his post match interview...not sure what you want from him? Get down on his knees and punch the ground or start trashing the dugout??

He was very clearly unhappy, and said exactly what I would expect him to say without singling out players. He didn't hide behind excuses or make out we were unlucky. He was very critical of the performance and stressed what needed to change. 

He wasn't exactly ranting and raving but after a handful of games, even fans would be over-reacting if they do that.

He isn't going to be physically expressive, that's not his way and I don't care if he doesn't start the bounce. What he needs to do is identify where we are going wrong and change it... He was honest enough in his assessment, now let's see how he addresses it.   

Its amazing how much you profess to know about him - are you a friend of his ? 

No. You are not. 

Embarrassing post. 

[Chester40]

1 minute ago, BobbyD said:

Its amazing how much you profess to know about him - are you a friend of his ? 

No. You are not. 

Embarrassing post. 

 ?? Okkkkk.... Not going to waste my breath trying to argue with that bizarre post ? 

[B4ev6is]

Omg

Give the man a break he came late into pre season he needs time so please get of his case he doing best he can.

[Dava75]

On 22/08/2019 at 13:55, Sexydadbod said:

I knew OP was joking before even opening this thread, some of you on here need to lighten up. Maybe the world really did end in 2012, seems nobody can take a light hearted joke anymore without getting offended or getting defensive. 

TFFT ??

[brady1993]

On 22/08/2019 at 11:05, Millenniumram said:

I think the squad is far far weaker compared to last year, that’s the main point. And that squad only finished 6th. Granted a better manager may get more out the players, but I’d say Lampard was an average manager and he took a much better side than this to 6th. Thus an average manager with this side, I’d say finishes about 12th. Now Cocu may be far more than an average manager, and he may still be able to take this side up- someone like Wilder last year who got a lot out of an average side. It’s very much possible so I’m not ruling anything this season out. But what I’m saying is, I think he joined in the proviso that he would be given a squad that you’d expect to be able to challenge for promotion. I don’t think the recruitment team came close to delivering that, hence like I say Cocu needs to really work magic to get us up, which I’m not sure is the position he signed up to be in.

I understand the difficulties of recruitment under FFP, but you can’t help but feel we’ve made a bit of a mess of that window. I rate Beilik, but we seem to have put all our eggs in one basket so to speak, like the Vydra deal In the Pearson window, at the expense of some other positions that haven’t been filled (a linking centre mid), which I feel is the wrong strategy. Naturally I wasn’t expecting to replace mount with one single player, that would’ve been impossible because he was far too good for this level- but we could have covered for losing his impact with a couple of players which we haven’t done. Dowell doesn’t even come close, I’m convinced there were far better out there than him. Wilson I actually think could’ve been replaced at this level, someone like Ince is playing in this league and could more and less replicate what Wilson gave, so I don’t buy that there’s no one available there.

Our business has left a squad devoid of attacking and creative quality. The CM and wing options are midtable at best. It’s a tough job for Cocu.

Here's the question though: is the side much weaker? 

We lost (only bothering with frequent performers) Tomori, Wilson, Mount, Nugent, Johnson, Bryson

And brought in Clarke, Paterson, Dowell, Bielik, Shinnie. 

Now out of those I'd say on current evidence Clarke is better than Tomori was when he started (he obviously improved dramatically). Bielik is miles better than Johnson. Jury is still out on Shinnie but Bryson wasn't exactly great last season. Mount is better than Dowell, no argument there. Not sure about Paterson but it's highly likely Wilson is better (although Paterson might contribute more to all round play). Oh and Martin returns for Nugent, which I think is an upgrade in terms of options and quality. 

So initially you'd probably have to argue we are worse but it depends a lot on whether Bielik is such an improvement versus Dowell being an "downgrade". However there are other factors we have 5 players (Buchanan, Sibley, Knight,  Bird, Whitaker) looking like breaking through to varying degrees and all look talented. We also have Lowe coming back and looking improved, plus younger squad members who might kick on such Bogle, Holmes, Evans, Mariott.

So id say initially we are a weaker side but I do think we could be end up being stronger depending on coaching and how younger players kick on. 

As a final point our 11 in our best run last year was this:

                  Roos

Bogle Keogh Tomori Malone

               Johnson

           Holmes  Mount 

    Wilson Waghorn Lawrence 

And that to my money looks it might not be as good as:

                 Roos 

Bogle Keogh Clarke Lowe

                 Bielik

        Holmes    Dowell

               Lawrence 

       Mariott        Waghorn 

 

[King Kevin]

On 21/08/2019 at 22:03, hintonsboots said:

He said he was worried about pace In central midfield.

He can't be that worried he's just picked Huddlestone again.

[dcfcfan1]

Support him 100 percent but really poor start from him

[Brammie Steve]

Apart from the title of this thread, which began as a provocative spoof, it has resulted in some extremely iinsightful and intelligent analyses of the way ahead. We clearly have a top quality manager (many thanks Mr Morris!) and I for one am looking forward to the forthcoming season(s).

Again it's a great time to be a Rams fan.

[Jourdan]

The fans are too quick to pounce on the manager. We have no patience and we just love to complain.

It’s still August and Cocu has been here for 7 weeks. Look at the bigger picture.

6 points from 5 games could have easily been 12 points from 5 games if we were capable of taking our chances.

I have seen three of the five games and granted the football hasn’t been very good to watch, but perhaps it is wishful thinking to expect good free flowing football at this point.

The Championship is a difficult league to negotiate for even very promising British managers, never mind a foreign one having to adjust to a new league in a new country and try to understand if his ideas and principles can actually work in this division and with the players at his disposal.

It will take time.

[McRamFan]

The only opinion worth reading about Cocu, is an opinion from someone who has achieved as much as he has.  Opinions from less qualified, I'd sooner listen to your armchair.

[DRBee]

On 22/08/2019 at 23:52, BobbyD said:

Oh dear, oh dear

What we need is someone who can relate to the players , demonstrate leadership and knowledge and lead from the front. And inspire their players to go beyond even their own expectations.  

Our previous manager had this, and as a result significantly over achieved

Time will tell ( sooner rather than later) if Cocu has the same. Lets hope he does.  

Thus far it is really uninspiring and dreary, although of course it is very early days. 

Interesting that ‘small’ teams who had even more turmoil than us in the pre season don't seem to be moaning about their  ill luck and are just getting on with it - Swansea, Charlton, Hull, Birmingham , Millwall . And other ‘bigger’ teams with much more turmoil than us are doing the same - Forest, Wednesday. 

Try to allow for other viewpoints than you're own, it will really help  you find maturity eventually .

 

 

Pathetic. So the new young players he is prepared to introduce ( replacing mistake-ridden old lags ) are not being inspired.

Time is needed before you make your ignorant assertion that Cocu can't inspire. 

Think back just a short time to when Mason Mount was injured and how we struggled -- showing that quality personnel are important and that even FL's supposed motivation couldn't get us the results at that time.

[Alph]

I like how some people think a manager should be ranting at the players and really be a no nonsense kind of guy or these rebellious players just won't try for him. 

It's just not the real world is it. Is that what you'd want from your coach, manager or boss? Would you like him to rant at you? Is that the only way you'll listen and take on board what he wants? 

I remember when Mac was here and people called for Pearson because Mac's got no plan b

 I remember when Pearson arrived and some people said that this is what we need. Some discipline from a manager that won't put up with nonsense from the players. 

The state he managed to get the team into in such a short space of time was really outstanding. 

I don't know how we can conclude that Cocu doesn't drive home the passion like Lampard did. I mean, was it a passionate thrashing by Leeds? Was the loss to Millwall done with passion? How about Bolton? Was that passion? 

Soon on football games there will be a stat for passion and desire. ?

[LittleEatonRam]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

I like how some people think a manager should be ranting at the players and really be a no nonsense kind of guy or these rebellious players just won't try for him. 

It's just not the real world is it. Is that what you'd want from your coach, manager or boss? Would you like him to rant at you? Is that the only way you'll listen and take on board what he wants? 

I remember when Mac was here and people called for Pearson because Mac's got no plan b

 I remember when Pearson arrived and some people said that this is what we need. Some discipline from a manager that won't put up with nonsense from the players. 

The state he managed to get the team into in such a short space of time was really outstanding. 

I don't know how we can conclude that Cocu doesn't drive home the passion like Lampard did. I mean, was it a passionate thrashing by Leeds? Was the loss to Millwall done with passion? How about Bolton? Was that passion? 

Soon on football games there will be a stat for passion and desire. ?

I remember an interview with Sean O'Driscoll once, around the time he was Forest manager before he fell victim to one of their frequent and bizarre sackings, where he was asked why he wasn't animated in the dugout and just stood there silently. His response was somewhere along the lines of "What good would it do waving my arms and shouting? My time and effort is better spent actually thinking about what's happening in the game".

Unfortunately a lot of English fans think if a manager, player or fan isn't shouting and going mad all the time then they obviously aren't putting enough effort in. Passion is shorthand for trying hard. 

I liked what Chris Wilder said yesterday about effort - it shouldn't be applauded, it's a bare minimum requirement.

[David]

Nathan Jones or Phillip Cocu, I know which I prefer

[Dimmu]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

 I remember when Pearson arrived and some people said that this is what we need. Some discipline from a manager that won't put up with nonsense from the players. 

Just tells that those fans don't know a lot about people's management or especially differencies of generations and how to get to the optimal performance.

[Tyler Durden]

Did everyone know Frank de Boer is officially the worst permanent manager in the history of the Premier League as he never won a solitary point in their games in charge of Crystal Palace.

Not sure if he waved his arms around a lot but he sure as well was Dutch.

#anotheruselessstat