I would drive dowell back up to Everton myself!

[dcfcfan1]

We have no choice to start him tbh, none of our cms can create and non of our wingers can cross a ball

 

[IlsonDerby]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Because so many of our good attacking moves broke down with Dowell. He contributed almost nothing to the game, so we were playing against a 'good side' with 10 men. He also doesn't seem to have much football intelligence either. He's unfortunate to be picked when other have been dropped.

Right. Why do you think Cocu keeps picking him when he's clearly happy to drop players? 

[Andicis]

16 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Wasn't good... in your opinion. You think its more than fair to give him stick for it? I disagree. Yeah you're spot on it's right to question a performance/discuss a performance/comment on a performance you think is below par but to 'give him some stick for it'? That's so counter productive! 

Sure, in my opinion. But that's the point of the forum. To give views on a players performance. Is any post on a forum productive? If people are happy to praise for good performances, giving some stick should be expected on bad ones, for the sake of balance in my opinion. I'm not talking about going overboard, but saying someone played a bit rubbish is entirely fair, in my view.

[IlsonDerby]

Dowell

 

Knight (I thought was brilliant today) 

 

 

Waggy

 

Lawrence

 

The numbers in red are the match ratings from 'whoscored.com'. 

For a really important point of comparison... Mason Mount (who was fantastic and who is starting for one of the big 6 in the premier league this season) scored a season average of 6.92. 

Keiran Dowell's average over his 5 games for us is currently 6.64 

 

This isn't suggesting that some aspects of his performances haven't been disappointing. They have and I'm sure he'd agree that he'd hoped to have started better. What it is suggesting though is that the criticism is over the top at this stage in the season. It's suggesting that whilst we might be disappointed with some of what we see, there are things happening in the game that we're not as conscious about. 

 

All I'm saying is 5 games into a season is too early for a thread calling out a single player. We've had Theo Robinson, Connor Salmon, Connor Doyle, Blessing Kaku, Giles Sunu etc play for us in recent history and none of them had this level of criticism so early on. 

 

 

 

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Right. Why do you think Cocu keeps picking him when he's clearly happy to drop players? 

There's no other choice while Holmes is out.

[IlsonDerby]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Sure, in my opinion. But that's the point of the forum. To give views on a players performance. Is any post on a forum productive? If people are happy to praise for good performances, giving some stick should be expected on bad ones, for the sake of balance in my opinion. I'm not talking about going overboard, but saying someone played a bit rubbish is entirely fair, in my view.

Giving a player stick like saying 'I'd drive him back to Everton for free' or 'Wis we had a clause to send him back' isn't what being a supporter is about. Saying 'I was disappointed with his use of the ball when we were attacking' or something along those lines is perfectly fine as a supporter because you're explaining why you're disappointed not just needlessly insulting our own players. (I'm not accusing you of saying any of the above btw I cba to find who wrote them, they're just hysterical comments I remember seeing.) 

[IlsonDerby]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

There's no other choice while Holmes is out.

None? 

Evans, Shinnie, Lawrence central/Bennett wide, Sibley... If he was as bad as some are making out, there are other options we could be using. 

[GenBr]

17 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

In your opinion. What constitutes a good performance? Playing as well as Mount? Cos that ain't going to happen. Assisting a goal and winning a penalty for a second goal? Cos he already did that against Stoke... 

Wasn't good... in your opinion. You think its more than fair to give him stick for it? I disagree. Yeah you're spot on it's right to question a performance/discuss a performance/comment on a performance you think is below par but to 'give him some stick for it'? That's so counter productive! 

Yes that is exactly what I am suggesting - only Mason Mount can play well - don't be so ridiculous. If you think he played well then good for you, but I definitely do not. Everytime he gets the ball the play breaks down - he has such a slow thought process he is very similar to Tom Lawrence in that regard. He constantly loses the ball in dangerous areas, his passing is poor and his set pieces are even worse. He doesn't link the play particularly well and his footballing brain is atrocious. If we don't own him I don't see the purpose in playing him if he carries on like this. Tom Lawrence scored twice against Huddersfield, but it doesn't mean I have been impressed with any of his performances since then.

If you can't criticise a player for performing badly you may as well shut the forum down. 

4 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Right. Why do you think Cocu keeps picking him when he's clearly happy to drop players? 

Who exactly would you play in his position then. The only replacements are an unfit Holmes or a 17 year old Sibley. If Cocu doesn't feel Sibley is ready yet then I'm ok with that, but I can and I will criticise Dowell if he continues to perform in the manner he has in every single game so far this year.

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Giving a player stick like saying 'I'd drive him back to Everton for free' or 'Wis we had a clause to send him back' isn't what being a supporter is about. Saying 'I was disappointed with his use of the ball when we were attacking' or something along those lines is perfectly fine as a supporter because you're explaining why you're disappointed not just needlessly insulting our own players. (I'm not accusing you of saying any of the above btw I cba to find who wrote them, they're just hysterical comments I remember seeing.) 

Oh, I completely agree with you then. 

[IlsonDerby]

1 minute ago, GenBr said:

Yes that is exactly what I am suggesting - only Mason Mount can play well - don't be so ridiculous. If you think he played well then good for you, but I definitely do not. Everytime he gets the ball the play breaks down - he has such a slow thought process he is very similar to Tom Lawrence in that regard. He constantly loses the ball in dangerous areas, his passing is poor and his set pieces are even worse. He doesn't link the play particularly well and his footballing brain is atrocious. If we don't own him I don't see the purpose in playing him if he carries on like this. Tom Lawrence scored twice against Huddersfield, but it doesn't mean I have been impressed with any of his performances since then.

If you can't criticise a player for performing badly you may as well shut the forum down. 

Who exactly would you play in his position then. The only replacements are an unfit Holmes or a 17 year old Sibley. If Cocu doesn't feel Sibley is ready yet then I'm ok with that, but I can and I will criticise Dowell if he continues to perform in the manner he has in every single game so far this year.

I'm not suggesting you're saying that. I'm struggling to see why he is being hung out to dry after 5? games! 

Honestly my good friend is a football scout and rates Dowell incredibly high. He watches him with no emotion involved and is completely objective. If Cocu(more qualified to rate a player than you and I) is constantly playing him. If my pal, a football scout (more qualified to rate a player than you and I) and if he's made it through the high quality Everton academy then I refuse to accept he's 'slow in the mind'. 

As Ive said above there's a difference between criticising a player's performance and some of the hysterical poo being spouted on here. 

 

As I've said above there are other options. Cocu clearly isn't concerned with dropping players. 

He was Cocu's first signing, quite early on in the window. He was clearly the one Cocu wanted to play that role. 

[Remy the hare]

I was talking to a sheff u this week and he said he was a sub most of the season and came on for impact. The problem we’ve got is a mindset that he’s a Mount replacement. He is wearing the number 8 shirt, perhaps he should have chosen a different number? He does remind me of Hendrick thou, perhaps like him we’ll get one good game in 10. 

[CapeTownRams]

To be fair his performances have been underwhelming in the extreme and other players with such poor performance levels would probably be dropped...

Same with Lawrence- Hudds another fake dawn(one of so many)- I just don’t see him making it long term- just can’t get any consistency at all. In truth he’s far more inconsistent than Ince was.. and people complained about him when he was here.

We don’t have room for any passengers in the team- let alone two.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Remy the hare said:

I was talking to a sheff u this week and he said he was a sub most of the season and came on for impact. The problem we’ve got is a mindset that he’s a Mount replacement. He is wearing the number 8 shirt, perhaps he should have chosen a different number? He does remind me of Hendrick thou, perhaps like him we’ll get one good game in 10. 

The same Hendrick that made Euro 16 team of the tournament and we got nearly 11 million quid for .  Like comparing Stimac with Claude Davis.

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

None? 

Evans, Shinnie, Lawrence central/Bennett wide, Sibley... If he was as bad as some are making out, there are other options we could be using. 

Just because others aren't playing does not mean Dowell has played well, he's not even been average. He might turn out to be brilliant, he strolls around like he plays for a Prem team, but atm he's very ordinary indeed.

[goldstar]

Noticed some bad blood between him versus Marriott and Lawrence when they were visibly frustrated at him and he was giving some back. Then right at the end Lawrence absolutely lost it with him. Think Cocu needs to watch the situation because if Dowell is keeping the shirt even after playing so badly, and the players see their more long term team mates on the bench not getting a look in, the golden boy from Everton may upset the apple cart. Player management, hope it's a strength of his

 

[RIMBAUD]

I thought he was better today , in fact quite a lot better.  

I thought his dead ball delivery was poor second half.

[Marriot Ram99]

30 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Dowell

 

Knight (I thought was brilliant today) 

 

 

Waggy

 

Lawrence

 

The numbers in red are the match ratings from 'whoscored.com'. 

For a really important point of comparison... Mason Mount (who was fantastic and who is starting for one of the big 6 in the premier league this season) scored a season average of 6.92. 

Keiran Dowell's average over his 5 games for us is currently 6.64 

 

This isn't suggesting that some aspects of his performances haven't been disappointing. They have and I'm sure he'd agree that he'd hoped to have started better. What it is suggesting though is that the criticism is over the top at this stage in the season. It's suggesting that whilst we might be disappointed with some of what we see, there are things happening in the game that we're not as conscious about. 

 

All I'm saying is 5 games into a season is too early for a thread calling out a single player. We've had Theo Robinson, Connor Salmon, Connor Doyle, Blessing Kaku, Giles Sunu etc play for us in recent history and none of them had this level of criticism so early on. 

 

 

 

Those ratings are baalocks I'm sorry, 7.25 against Bristol when he was one of worst players in a poor performance, I would have given him a 3 , he lost the ball constantly, did nothing defensively and was just pure crap. He may come good , but so far he has been awful , he was ok vs Huddersfield but other than that  he has been a 5 out of 10 at very best.

[dcfcfan1]

Every year we seem to make one or two marquee signing., If next year we can make it a winger and a CM, we are golden

[nottingram]

11 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Noticed some bad blood between him versus Marriott and Lawrence when they were visibly frustrated at him and he was giving some back. Then right at the end Lawrence absolutely lost it with him. Think Cocu needs to watch the situation because if Dowell is keeping the shirt even after playing so badly, and the players see their more long term team mates on the bench not getting a look in, the golden boy from Everton may upset the apple cart. Player management, hope it's a strength of his

 

Players will have a go at each other so many times in a game, I don’t think it’s anything to do with bad blood. Just frustration at loose bits of play. 

I thought he was okay today, interesting to note he has always been an out and out ‘number 10’ before so he’s adapting into a new role as a deep midfielder and not doing badly so far 

[goldstar]

16 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Players will have a go at each other so many times in a game, I don’t think it’s anything to do with bad blood. Just frustration at loose bits of play. 

I thought he was okay today, interesting to note he has always been an out and out ‘number 10’ before so he’s adapting into a new role as a deep midfielder and not doing badly so far 

Oh it's normal to see a bit of aggro but that was something else, he's not really clicking with them both in terms of what we see and the actual game itself.

Have to disagree I think he's been woeful so far for us.