Lawrence up to 30 minutes in a game

[ram1964]

On 18/08/2019 at 10:06, Millenniumram said:

Not something I’ve ever really noticed before. I always think if Lawrence has a good game, he’s tends to have a really good game and impress over the full 90. Sadly thats not often enough- most of the time he flicks between being poor and average. I mean it’s not all that surprising, there’s very few consistent wingers in this league. But it is very frustrating, because Lawrence clearly has a lot of talent and technical ability. He’s just doesn’t show it because of his extremely poor decision making on the ball, he far too often makes the wrong pass or run into dead ends and attacks end with him. For a player in our team, he’s gives away possession too cheaply far too often, though he’s not alone in that respect.

Not a bad player Lawrence, but he’s no more than average and frustrating normally, and I personally can’t see that changing sadly. 

Think he has been here long enough and trained  with enough different coaches and managers that if these aspects of his game were to improve , we would have seen it by now

[Millenniumram]

27 minutes ago, ram1964 said:

Think he has been here long enough and trained  with enough different coaches and managers that if these aspects of his game were to improve , we would have seen it by now

I fear the same too, he doesn’t really seem to have developed since he’s been here at all. The level of coaches we’ve had working with him wild suggest that means he’s probably at his limit.

[Seth's left foot]

I have pointed out to the Keogh haters that every Rams and ROI Manager have played him, in the same sense I always look at the fact Lawrence gets picked most of the time.

I’m not his biggest fan and his performance at Huddersfield shocked me to be honest, not the quality around their box but the effort in tracking back which seemed to suggest that Cocu had finally unlocked his potential.

Sadly, he seems to be reverting back to his 1 in 5 performances.

We are definitely missing Holmes, it will be interesting to see how we look once he’s back in there.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Tom Lawrence, always got a 30 minute spell in him.

[BrizzleRam]

On 18/08/2019 at 14:58, DCFC Ram said:

I was happier with JR than Ince and I have greater respect for Waghorn than Lawrence over a typical season. At least Russell and Waghorn look like they are bothered.

 

Stats for the seasons JR and Ince played in the same team...

2014-15: 

JR 39 apps,  6 goals, 8 assists. 2 MoM awards. 

Ince 18 apps, 11 goals, 1 assist, 7 MoM awards. 

2015-16:

JR 47 apps,  10 goals, 8 assists, 1 MoM award. 

Ince 44 apps, 12 goals, 8 assists, 5 MoM awards. 

2016-17:

JR 36 apps, 2 goals, 4 assists, 1 MoM award.  

Ince 45 apps, 14 goals, 6 assists, 6 MoM awards. 

Over 3 seasons, Ince contributed to 14 more goals than Russell, and received 14 more MoM awards, despite making 15 less appearances.

I get really tired of assertions that our wingers are lazy just because they make more attacking contributions than defensive ones - that's the point of a team, to have balance - some players will be more gifted at one end than the other, yet for our lot if they aren't seen defending their own corner flag making tackles then they're castigated as lazy and inconsistent. 

Contributing to 20 goals a season for 2 seasons is pretty damn consistent in my book. 

For what it's worth Lawrence can't hold a candle to Ince in terms of outputs - but I do think there's a broader point here about us unfairly getting on the back of our creative players and it can't help with their form or confidence. I know Ince was pretty unhappy with the fans by the time he left, understandably considering he was vastly underrated by most of our supporters.  

[Alph]

Ince was the best winger we've had for a good while and most important since Ward carried the attacking threat for Nigel Clough. 

Stoke fans don't like him much. But they don't seem to like any players there much. Or managers actually. 

[DCFC Ram]

5 hours ago, BrizzleRam said:

Stats for the seasons JR and Ince played in the same team...

2014-15: 

JR 39 apps,  6 goals, 8 assists. 2 MoM awards. 

Ince 18 apps, 11 goals, 1 assist, 7 MoM awards. 

2015-16:

JR 47 apps,  10 goals, 8 assists, 1 MoM award. 

Ince 44 apps, 12 goals, 8 assists, 5 MoM awards. 

2016-17:

JR 36 apps, 2 goals, 4 assists, 1 MoM award.  

Ince 45 apps, 14 goals, 6 assists, 6 MoM awards. 

Over 3 seasons, Ince contributed to 14 more goals than Russell, and received 14 more MoM awards, despite making 15 less appearances.

I get really tired of assertions that our wingers are lazy just because they make more attacking contributions than defensive ones - that's the point of a team, to have balance - some players will be more gifted at one end than the other, yet for our lot if they aren't seen defending their own corner flag making tackles then they're castigated as lazy and inconsistent. 

Contributing to 20 goals a season for 2 seasons is pretty damn consistent in my book. 

For what it's worth Lawrence can't hold a candle to Ince in terms of outputs - but I do think there's a broader point here about us unfairly getting on the back of our creative players and it can't help with their form or confidence. I know Ince was pretty unhappy with the fans by the time he left, understandably considering he was vastly underrated by most of our supporters.  

Stats don't lie.

But these stats don't show the number of times that JR and Ince failed to track back, 'hid' when we had the ball, covered for their fullback etc. They also don't show the number of games where either got ratings of 5 or less. My guess (and it is just that) is that Ince had a fair few whereas JR didn't over the 3 seasons.

 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, DCFC Ram said:

Stats don't lie.

But these stats don't show the number of times that JR and Ince failed to track back, 'hid' when we had the ball, covered for their fullback etc. They also don't show the number of games where either got ratings of 5 or less. My guess (and it is just that) is that Ince had a fair few whereas JR didn't over the 3 seasons.

 

Don't agree at all. Ince was extremely good at tracking back, and very rarely ''hid'', it was just the narrative people used to push on to him. Ince was a miles better player than Johnny Russell, in almost every way. Russell was liked because he smiled and ran around. Ince was smarter about his running and wasn't so smiley, so he wasn't as popular. Much better footballer, though.

[Sparkle]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Don't agree at all. Ince was extremely good at tracking back, and very rarely ''hid'', it was just the narrative people used to push on to him. Ince was a miles better player than Johnny Russell, in almost every way. Russell was liked because he smiled and ran around. Ince was smarter about his running and wasn't so smiley, so he wasn't as popular. Much better footballer, though.

This has all moved sideways on the topic - but I would take either of them over Lawrence and jafoozon 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

Is it just me, or is Tom playing a lot deeper?

First game he played behind the striker, with a free role and was immense.

Is he carrying injuries? He seemed to get kicked to bits against Huddersfield.

He has been crap for 4 games, so I need an excuse for him as he is one of my favourite players.

[Mckram]

33 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Is it just me, or is Tom playing a lot deeper?

First game he played behind the striker, with a free role and was immense.

Is he carrying injuries? He seemed to get kicked to bits against Huddersfield.

He has been crap for 4 games, so I need an excuse for him as he is one of my favourite players.

He’s that kind of player, 1 good game in 5.

He will have a blinder against West Brom just wait.

[Alph]

35 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Is it just me, or is Tom playing a lot deeper?

First game he played behind the striker, with a free role and was immense.

Is he carrying injuries? He seemed to get kicked to bits against Huddersfield.

He has been crap for 4 games, so I need an excuse for him as he is one of my favourite players.

He's supposed to be free isn't he? I'm sure he said Cocu has given him more freedom (not that he's ever looked disciplined!)

Not sure he's benefitting from it. Would have loved him in the situations Jozefzoon got in. 

I think the front 4 just keep letting each other down with sloppy touches and poor reading of each other. 

They'll be a change in personnel but I would expect Lawrence to be fine.

[lukedcfc]

14 minutes ago, Mckram said:

He’s that kind of player, 1 good game in 5.

He will have a blinder against West Brom just wait.

Probably, should we be happy with that?

[MACKWORTHRAM]

Made me laugh after the Huddersfield game some fans in twitter came out "where are all the Lawrence haters now"

Since Huddersfield he's done and offered absolutely nothing.

No surprise because that's the running theme of his time here. Has a good game and then you don't see him again for the next 6 or 7.

That's why he infuriates me so much. Cos the lad has got so much ability. On his day he could easily play in the Premier League.

The fact that his days are few and far between is probably why he's not playing in the prem now.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Made me laugh after the Huddersfield game some fans in twitter came out "where are all the Lawrence haters now"

Since Huddersfield he's done and offered absolutely nothing.

No surprise because that's the running theme of his time here. Has a good game and then you don't see him again for the next 6 or 7.

That's why he infuriates me so much. Cos the lad has got so much ability. On his day he could easily play in the Premier League.

The fact that his days are few and far between is probably why he's not playing in the prem now.

Eric Steeles point was probably about right .  Said he asked Ryan Giggs about Lawrence and his showing for Wales.  Giggs gave him the toss of a coin sign .

[Sexydadbod]

7 hours ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Made me laugh after the Huddersfield game some fans in twitter came out "where are all the Lawrence haters now"

Since Huddersfield he's done and offered absolutely nothing.

No surprise because that's the running theme of his time here. Has a good game and then you don't see him again for the next 6 or 7.

That's why he infuriates me so much. Cos the lad has got so much ability. On his day he could easily play in the Premier League.

The fact that his days are few and far between is probably why he's not playing in the prem now.

I highly doubt he’s ever going to improve, he’s going to be 26 in January, it’s not like he’s a teenager coming through the academy where we could be more forgiving as fans as they’re learning the game. He’s played under 3 different managers with different styles and he still looks poor. We all thought he was going to be an important player last season when he scored in the first few games v Reading and Leeds but he ended up going to back to normal. 

[cheron85]

On 17/08/2019 at 20:04, Sparkle said:

Lawrence Always seems to do well early in a game but not after 30 minutes in my opinion ( sometimes not even in the first 30 minutes) so should we just be pulling him off at half time in most games 

I know some sttatos will check up on this and please do so

Who scored suggests about evens in contribution first and second half across his career - Obviously a few more second half apps, but about the same number of minutes

FH - Mins 7112, Goals 14, Good dribbles 150, Key Passes 129

SH - Mins 6789, Goals 15, Good Dribbles 140, Key Passes 135

Can't break it down for just us but getting on for half of his total mins are now for Derby - And his returns have been improving as he's got older

[Mick Brolly]

9 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Eric Steeles point was probably about right .  Said he asked Ryan Giggs about Lawrence and his showing for Wales.  Giggs gave him the toss  sign .

Harsh from Giggs  

[Derbyram1]

9 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Eric Steeles point was probably about right .  Said he asked Ryan Giggs about Lawrence and his showing for Wales.  Giggs gave him the toss of a coin sign .

Didn't say that though did he.

[Ghost of Clough]

He was one of the few constantly trying last night. Went on two great mazy runs only to be fouled... but not rewarded with freekicks. Then as he's catching his breath back people lambaste him for not sprinting back to offer support.