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Pastinaak

v Stoke City (A) Match thread

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I guess I shouldn’t draw too many conclusions from BBC Stats or a 6 minutes highlights package, but it seems to me to be a sounder base to work from than few of the rabid assessments on here.  We went away to a reasonable side (consider their teamsheet) who have a pretty good home record, and a passionate crowd.  We matched them 50/50 with possession, and we had more efforts on target.  We got a couple of good goals from nicely constructed attacking moves (if you allow for the build up to the pen) and we created a lovely chance at the end that Waghorn was only just unable to convert. Could easily have won that 3-2.  Yes there was a bit of dodgy defending, and our midfield is yet to be settled let alone gel but in my close to 50 years of watching football l have come to the conclusion it does often take a little while to get going in a new league season. Quite often more than 3 games. Good point I would say.

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10 hours ago, Alpha said:

Yeah good point. 

Tomori was very dodgy wasn't he? One of my favourite ever loans now. 

 

It’s different context but that second goal of Stole yesterday wouldn’t have happened as tomori would have sprinted back and got the ball first.

Clarke will improve us on crossing ultimately but we will be a calamity with 3 at the back.

Will three at the back, two wing backs and two holding mids be a Cocu signature. I hope not!

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One things for sure, we'll be a different side when Bogle, Holmes and Bielik are fully fit. Add in more experience for the many young lads and that should boost us too. 

If Roos gets a bit more confidence taking crosses and we learn to defend set pieces we'll be laughing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I still only think we'll finish 6th-8th though 

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1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

I guess I shouldn’t draw too many conclusions from BBC Stats or a 6 minutes highlights package, but it seems to me to be a sounder base to work from than few of the rabid assessments on here.  We went away to a reasonable side (consider their teamsheet) who have a pretty good home record, and a passionate crowd.  We matched them 50/50 with possession, and we had more efforts on target.  We got a couple of good goals from nicely constructed attacking moves (if you allow for the build up to the pen) and we created a lovely chance at the end that Waghorn was only just unable to convert. Could easily have won that 3-2.  Yes there was a bit of dodgy defending, and our midfield is yet to be settled let alone gel but in my close to 50 years of watching football l have come to the conclusion it does often take a little while to get going in a new league season. Quite often more than 3 games. Good point I would say.

Yes, before the moan barometer overheats, why don't we give the team and Manager 10 games to settle and see how things are then 🤔

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2 minutes ago, ramit said:

Jones claims Stoke should have been 4 to 5-1 up at halftime.  Really?  Says he works so hard 12 hours a day 7 days a week and then blames the players for a lack of killer instinct.  That's not something you want to say in public, i think, or even at all.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-boss-nathan-jones-3222975

Strikes me as the sort of thing a manager can say when his squad is full of lower league triers but not when you are managing a big club with associated big egos. You have to think any more of that and they’ll have him out the door ASAP

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4 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I guess I shouldn’t draw too many conclusions from BBC Stats or a 6 minutes highlights package, but it seems to me to be a sounder base to work from than few of the rabid assessments on here.  We went away to a reasonable side (consider their teamsheet) who have a pretty good home record, and a passionate crowd.  We matched them 50/50 with possession, and we had more efforts on target.  We got a couple of good goals from nicely constructed attacking moves (if you allow for the build up to the pen) and we created a lovely chance at the end that Waghorn was only just unable to convert. Could easily have won that 3-2.  Yes there was a bit of dodgy defending, and our midfield is yet to be settled let alone gel but in my close to 50 years of watching football l have come to the conclusion it does often take a little while to get going in a new league season. Quite often more than 3 games. Good point I would say.

Waggy almost cleared their 2nd off the line! Away point, new manager, players etc...yep all good so far.

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38 minutes ago, ramit said:

Jones claims Stoke should have been 4 to 5-1 up at halftime.  Really?  Says he works so hard 12 hours a day 7 days a week and then blames the players for a lack of killer instinct.  That's not something you want to say in public, i think, or even at all.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-boss-nathan-jones-3222975

Seems to me that after one good season in a lower league, Jones thinks he really is the big man. Seeing him so animated on the touchline yesterday made me think 'What a ******!'. His post-match comments were laughable. He'll be a one season wonder. Cocu, by contrast, was calm and astute. During the game, he was focusing on areas to develop. His half time changes were bold. His post-match comments were measured and superbly analytical. We even got a wave and applause at the end. Happy times!

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1 hour ago, Mazzaram said:

Seems to me that after one good season in a lower league, Jones thinks he really is the big man. Seeing him so animated on the touchline yesterday made me think 'What a ******!'. His post-match comments were laughable. He'll be a one season wonder. Cocu, by contrast, was calm and astute. During the game, he was focusing on areas to develop. His half time changes were bold. His post-match comments were measured and superbly analytical. We even got a wave and applause at the end. Happy times!

Yes, we clearly have an analytical highly intelligent manager in Cocu, a cool head, as opposed to hothead Jones.  Man VS boy really.  You could say it's understandable that Jones is upset with the current standing of his team, but to blame his players in that way shows a lack of class, something we have in abundance in Cocu. 

Good times ahead for Derby fans if we stick by him.  What with the preseason being so short, the players learning total football and tough games we have had, i am well pleased with the start we have made, something to really build on as the team gels better.

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7 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I guess I shouldn’t draw too many conclusions from BBC Stats or a 6 minutes highlights package, but it seems to me to be a sounder base to work from than few of the rabid assessments on here.  We went away to a reasonable side (consider their teamsheet) who have a pretty good home record, and a passionate crowd.  We matched them 50/50 with possession, and we had more efforts on target.  We got a couple of good goals from nicely constructed attacking moves (if you allow for the build up to the pen) and we created a lovely chance at the end that Waghorn was only just unable to convert. Could easily have won that 3-2.  Yes there was a bit of dodgy defending, and our midfield is yet to be settled let alone gel but in my close to 50 years of watching football l have come to the conclusion it does often take a little while to get going in a new league season. Quite often more than 3 games. Good point I would say.

Good points well made but there’s no need to be patting yourself on the back about it at the end. Comes across a little big headed 😂

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I'm just catching up with this for the first time, and I'm surprised at the level of criticism. I enjoyed the game, thought we played some good stuff in spells and could have won it had Waghorn not missed a sitter late on. Equally, there were spells where we were really under the cosh, so a 2-2 was about right. 

I certainly don't agree with Nathan Jones' rather childish and hysterical reaction afterwards; I wasn't overly impressed by Stoke and we were the masters of our own problems more than Stoke causing them.

We will get stronger no doubt. Get Bielik and Marriott in the starting line up and Bogle back will improve us. Cocu must surely realise that Josefzoon isn't good enough (worse than that, yesterday he was lazy) and Dowell will improve I'd imagine once he settles in. Evans already looks a better player and we've got Shinnie to add in as well. 

I was encouraged by a lot of what I saw we were trying to do, in terms of style and patterns of play. Some of it came off, some of it didn't, but the more they practice and play together, I get the sense we will get better.  

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went yesterday , cant believe some of the criticism on here for some of the players and manager , i would of taken a point before the game and i thought the character shown by the players and the manager not frightened to make decisions we fully deserved one , the Stoke manager was very hysterical all game and i think the Stoke players rattled the ref , some bizarre decisions from him , Lowe and Keogh our top performers , and Marriott doing well when he came on , finally , what a horrible little scrote Joe Allen is

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20 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Think what he needs is a goalie who isn't terrified to come off his line to claim a ball. He's about 6'3.

Yes I thought Roos looked hesitant. A top class keeper would definitely help. 

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2 hours ago, Premier ram said:

went yesterday , cant believe some of the criticism on here for some of the players and manager , i would of taken a point before the game and i thought the character shown by the players and the manager not frightened to make decisions we fully deserved one , the Stoke manager was very hysterical all game and i think the Stoke players rattled the ref , some bizarre decisions from him , Lowe and Keogh our top performers , and Marriott doing well when he came on , finally , what a horrible little scrote Joe Allen is

If it makes you feel any better Stoke fans don't like Allen much either. 

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16 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

Lawrence got hauled off before he was sent off

that could have been quite reasonably done at half time or sooner

his ball retention is just bloody shocking at times, I don’t think any of that front 3 are convering  themselves in glory 

Lawrence hit two beauties the other week, which just makes it the more frustrating cos we’ve seen what he can do, he can go from the sublime to the downright awful, top corner from 20 yards one minute to needlessly giving it away for 90 minutes 

at least flojo is steady 😂

tbf laid on what should have been the match winning chance for Waggy which is a helluva lot more than Lawrence did 

Sounds right to me, I didn’t see the game so have no right to comment on FloJo’s performance but that pass to waggy was spot on and waggy an should have buried it. I’m still worried about midfield. How can we have good strikers, an excellent defence but we aren’t destroying teams ? Midfield that’s the thing, getting that balance ... always has been for the last 5 years. 

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5 hours ago, jono said:

Sounds right to me, I didn’t see the game so have no right to comment on FloJo’s performance but that pass to waggy was spot on and waggy an should have buried it. I’m still worried about midfield. How can we have good strikers, an excellent defence but we aren’t destroying teams ? Midfield that’s the thing, getting that balance ... always has been for the last 5 years. 

I agree with you Jono but I think we have the players now to address this. Bielik looks a monster of a player and not just a destroyer-type but a proper footballer. With him at CDM watch the other mids grow in confidence. Duane, Tom, young Jason Knight and Dowell too, they all have some serious ability not to mention Huddlestone who could find a new lease of life played higher and freed to a degree of last-line defensive duties.

There's a few on here who do nothing but slate the latter but clearly Cocu doesn't agree with them and neither do I. His passing ability and that of Bielik too can see us transformed, or so I hope at least. The midfield balance is coming and by the time Wazza rocks up we could already have proven ourselves a match for anyone in the division. The team we're watching at the moment is some way off our best after all.

COYR

Edited by 86 Schmokes & a Pancake

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