Jamie Paterson - loan cancelled

[Sparkle]

1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

It didn’t help, but it should be possible to plan recruitment without a manager if we’re genuinely going along with a consistency in playing style. Which we appear not to have done with Cocu, which is the big problem. 

A manager will expect certain things and if he doesn’t see them it just isn’t going to happen for a player and why waste money on someone who will hardly be used - your comment about a Cocu is very confusing and lacks clarity 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

9 minutes ago, David said:

But was it a failure by the recruitment team, the player himself, the manager? 

Could be a number of reasons why it didn’t work out, at the time you said you would take him. Not all signings work out and to point the finger at the recruitment team every time makes little sense.

'Recruitment Team' has become a buzz word for Derby fans just like Climate Change, Credit Crunch, Carbon Footprint has for the millennial.

I dont blame the recruitment team, I blame the employee seeking technicians at the club.

[Day]

4 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

But it’s them who have brought him in. I think he’s a decent player, I still do, but he obviously doesn’t suit. It’s their job to know whether he will suit the manager. It’s their job to know whether the player is good enough. Unless there’s a really strange reason as to why a signing hasn’t worked out (injured on the first game or something like that) I think the ultimate blame has to lie with the recruitment team. It’s what they’re there for, and we’ve had too many signings like this for it to be acceptable. 

The manager is given a list of players, choice of options and they make the decision who to go for.

Who else was on the list that wasn’t fancied by the manager?
 

[Millenniumram]

1 minute ago, Sparkle said:

A manager will expect certain things and if he doesn’t see them it just isn’t going to happen for a player and why waste money on someone who will hardly be used - your comment about a Cocu is very confusing and lacks clarity 

But we should be bringing in a manager who expects the same things we as a club across all levels expect, that’s the point of a club wide philosophy. If we have a manager like that, then we should be able to recruit for him, because he will play the style of football previous managers have done, and thus we can continue to recruit players we’d already targeted. My comment about Cocu is something I’ve said many times, he was brought in as continuity from Lampard. But he doesn’t play with remotely the same style and mentality.

[Millenniumram]

2 minutes ago, David said:

The manager is given a list of players, choice of options and they make the decision who to go for.

Who else was on the list that wasn’t fancied by the manager?
 

I don’t know, but if there were too many who weren’t fancied and we ended up all the way down at Jamie Paterson, then you have to suggest the list wasn’t a good enough one in the first place.

[MaltRam]

Meh. Did Ok whenever I saw him, but the writing has been on the wall. I suspect he just doesn't fit here. Next.

[Sparkle]

4 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

But we should be bringing in a manager who expects the same things we as a club across all levels expect, that’s the point of a club wide philosophy. If we have a manager like that, then we should be able to recruit for him, because he will play the style of football previous managers have done, and thus we can continue to recruit players we’d already targeted. My comment about Cocu is something I’ve said many times, he was brought in as continuity from Lampard. But he doesn’t play with remotely the same style and mentality.

But we don’t have the same players available!

[Millenniumram]

Just now, Sparkle said:

But we don’t have the same players available!

What’s that got to do with anything?

[Day]

Just now, Millenniumram said:

I don’t know, but if there were too many who weren’t fancied and we ended up all the way down at Jamie Paterson, then you have to suggest the list wasn’t a good enough one in the first place.

Exactly, you don’t know but have spun the finger of blame. 

Albentosa signing, are we blaming the recruitment team for that one as well, not foreseeing forgotten insoles and home sickness?

As I say there could be a number of reasons why Paterson didn’t work out before we get to ability and fitting in the team. 

We saw the incident with Marriott on the touch line the other week as he went to warm up, it’s possible he didn’t mesh well with the other players, again not something the recruitment team can predict.

[Millenniumram]

5 minutes ago, David said:

Exactly, you don’t know but have spun the finger of blame. 

Albentosa signing, are we blaming the recruitment team for that one as well, not foreseeing forgotten insoles and home sickness?

As I say there could be a number of reasons why Paterson didn’t work out before we get to ability and fitting in the team. 

We saw the incident with Marriott on the touch line the other week as he went to warm up, it’s possible he didn’t mesh well with the other players, again not something the recruitment team can predict.

But you’ve got to research players enough to know their character as well. Whether they’ll fit into the team mentality. That’s also the job of a recruitment team. Marriotts previous attitude issues were well documented, you can’t say that it was impossible to see that coming, much as you’d hope he was past all that. Almost any reason why a signing would fail, other than injury or some bizzare other reason like keoghs sacking, comes under the umbrella of something the recruitment team should have done better with for me.

Now I accept they’re not gonna get every signings right. But we’ve had so many miserable failures in recent years, that you just cannot keep making excuses for it.

[Day]

1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

But you’ve got to research players enough to know their character as well. Whether they’ll fit into the team mentality. That’s also the job of a recruitment team. Marriotts previous attitude issues were well documented, you can’t say that it was impossible to see that coming, much as you’d hope he was past all that. Almost any reason why a signing would fail, other than injury or some bizzare other reason like keoghs sacking, comes under the umbrella of something the recruitment team should have done better with for me.

Now I accept they’re not gonna get every signings right. But we’ve had so many miserable failures in recent years, that you just cannot keep making excuses for it.

Of course, but player A could have zero known issues previously, enters new club and for whatever reason clashes with player B who’s popular at the club which leaves them alienated. 

Wives can get pregnant, want to return home near friends and family. I could sit here for hours writing possible scenarios of why a signing might not work, we’re dealing with humans, people, not robots.

I can understand those that blame the manager as ultimately they are in charge, it’s their head on the block. 

But the recruitment team? Just lazy scapegoating when like you say you have no idea who was on the rejected list that would have possibly had us all drooling at the prospect. 

[Millenniumram]

9 minutes ago, David said:

Of course, but player A could have zero known issues previously, enters new club and for whatever reason clashes with player B who’s popular at the club which leaves them alienated. 

Wives can get pregnant, want to return home near friends and family. I could sit here for hours writing possible scenarios of why a signing might not work, we’re dealing with humans, people, not robots.

I can understand those that blame the manager as ultimately they are in charge, it’s their head on the block. 

But the recruitment team? Just lazy scapegoating when like you say you have no idea who was on the rejected list that would have possibly had us all drooling at the prospect. 

This is what I mean by the very occasional strange happening that makes a signing fail. But you’re kidding yourself if you believe the sort of thing you’ve said happens very often. It’s not enough to excuse years of poor recruitment down to bad luck. Just like the manager takes the blame for results on the pitch, the recruitment team have to take blame for poor signings off the pitch. Simple as that for me.

[thekingofbuxton]

Recruitment team or influence of Rosenior?

Probably both

Awful signing

[Derbados]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

Another genius move by the recruitment team, what a loan that one was.... waste of everyone’s time. Total failure to recruit someone suitable. We’re clearly in the market for another winger in the window, so let’s hope this time his replacement makes a bigger impact.

You’re joking aren’t you? it’ll either be a central midfielder that we’ll shoehorn into a wide role or a way past his best 30 something ok high wages looking for one last pay day (ala Scott Sinclair)

out recruitment team must be the most inept bunch in the league, how can they keep getting it so wrong? 

 

[Millenniumram]

1 minute ago, Derbados said:

You’re joking aren’t you? it’ll either be a central midfielder that we’ll shoehorn into a wide role or a way past his best 30 something ok high wages looking for one last pay day (ala Scott Sinclair)

out recruitment team must be the most inept bunch in the league, how can they keep getting it so wrong? 

 

Most likely, yep.

Id compare them to Uniteds recruitment in the prem. Awful for years because there’s no clear strategy or imagination.

[AndyinLiverpool]

Who are the individuals who make up our recruitment team?

I ask for 2 reasons:

a) I want to know

b) I want to start a 'deep-state' conspiracy theory that this shady organisation is controlling everything, including VAR band the weather. They are Jewish, right?

[Derbados]

7 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Most likely, yep.

Id compare them to Uniteds recruitment in the prem. Awful for years because there’s no clear strategy or imagination.

It’s crazy, you look at clubs like Bristol City and Brentford who buy young, talented players for peanuts and sell them on for huge profits, we just seem totally unable to scout abroad or bring in rough diamond talent. 
 

Isn’t Schteves son still part of the scouting system?

[Millenniumram]

1 minute ago, Derbados said:

It’s crazy, you look at clubs like Bristol City and Brentford who buy young, talented players for peanuts and sell them on for huge profits, we just seem totally unable to scout abroad or bring in rough diamond talent. 
 

Isn’t Schteves son still part of the scouting system?

This is the thing, I don’t think we even have foreign scouts! It’s absolutely mental, it really is. And yes he is, Chief Scout still I believe.

[Rambalin]

The recruitment team or scouts has they used to be known work too what they have been told is required.They produce a list of players for the identified position and then hand it over to the  manager for him to pick which interests them most.

Once he has he passes it too the chief exec who makes the calls to find out their availability some may have had their availability all ready circulated.

A list is then formulated listing players in order of preference which the chief exec works down to find the best fit too the budget we have.

Some players may turn us down others not affordable when one on the list meets the criteria and is interested then the manager either days yes or no.

By the time Cocu arrived many on the list may have gone elsewhere and Paterson may have been the best available.In Dowells case Cocu probably had a recommendation from Everton's DOF  who was at PSV with him.

So unless we are working with a continental model where the signings are identified and made above the managers head  then the time limitations we had following Cocu's arrival meant we working in a small pool of players.

[Will Hughes Hair]

Not a surprise Paterson is going.  Sealed the moment he decided to go to Keogh's Xmas party with Josefzoon ?