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David

Our Summer Business

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We have replaced the following players who were most involved in the first team last year for

Carson-Hamer

Tomori-Clarke

Johnson-Bielik

Bryson-Shinnie

Mount-Dowell

Wilson-Paterson

And Rooney who I don’t know who he has replaced

Thoughts?

 

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Posted (edited)

I think it’s been a pretty successful window.  We’ve managed to off load some who weren’t even bit part players and get some significant wages off the bill.  We’ve hung on to our younger players and not made a big sale like previous summers (Vydra, Hughes, Ince, Hendrick) which is just as important as signing players.  We’ve done what Mel said we would do and focused on the loan market which means there’s still a path for the academy players.  We’ve spent big on potential and someone that if we end up paying the full price we’ll be in the premiership and his value will have increased.

With the Rooney signing we’ve signed a player that, despite the money, just wants to play, be competitive, is a winner and a few premiership clubs will be wondering why they didn’t go for it.  Importantly I think that, barring a serious injury or sale, our January business is done.  The winter window is always poor - teams often panic buy and pay well over the odds.  In our case we know what improvement we have coming.

Edited by Coolascustard

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I'm happy with this window.

We've shipped out a large chunk of 'deadwood'. Chunky wages saved. Leaner squad. Better chance of youngsters coming through.

Sure, the quality has taken a drop -  we were always going to struggle to 'replace' Mount/Wilson/Tomori - but I think we've addressed the right areas. Would have loved a top drawer winger, which is something I feel like I say every damn season.

We've also kept hold of our key players in Waggy, Marriott, Lawrence and Bogle.

Hamer - wages saved. Useful back up to have. Roos clearly first choice, which I don't mind.
Paterson - jury's out. Will wait to see what he can do, but looks like an upgrade on Josefzoon and Bennett at the least.
Clarke - signing of the season for me. Much needed physicality AND can play it out from the back? Only negative is that he's not our player. Shame we couldn't have pinched him before Brighton did, but who's to say we didn't try?
Bielik - again, much needed physicality. One hell of an investment and looks like a proper defensive mid.
Rooney - doesn't need saying does it? Will probably make us money without spending a minute on the pitch. Can he hack the Championship? Where will he play?
Shinnie - not sure. Looked like a Bryson replacement. May be a victim of change of manager? Sure he'll have a role to play though
Dowell - as close to a Mount replacement as you could expect - hope he isn't unfairly benchmarked against the aforementioned - looks like he could be important once he starts to strike up and understanding with Lawrence/Waggy/Marriott.
 

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2 hours ago, Kuskus said:

We have replaced the following players who were most involved in the first team last year for

Carson-Hamer

Tomori-Clarke

Johnson-Bielik

Bryson-Shinnie

Mount-Dowell

Wilson-Paterson

And Rooney who I don’t know who he has replaced

Thoughts?

 

Thoughts are that what you have posted is correct.

And your point is....?

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5 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

No, he is DC Uniteds attacking midfielder.

Should he remain fit between now and January, he will then become ours.

We have signed him so he is ours !

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Finally back online  - after  a disappointing end to the window, but you don't always buy and sell and loan players in the order you want.

I actually thought Steve Nicholson did quite a decent summary and of course he's right that time will be the judge. https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/story-behind-Derby-countys-summer-3194265  Norwich appeared to sell their best players the summer before yet ended up winning the league because football is about the team chemistry as much as the magic of individual players.

After we'd done the Rooney deal I naively thought we'd get anyone else we were after over the line. Sadly that's not the case. It looks pretty clear we were after Sinclair. I'm not convinced he'd have been good, but it didn't happen and now he's kicking up with Celtic. I'd heard (though not from my normal sources) that we were hopping to bring Jeff Hendrick back. For me he would have been exactly the  kind of player we need to take the team to the next level. But though we could sign Rooney, we couldn't get the money right with either Sinclair or Hendrick.

In many ways that's disappointing, but in other ways we've learnt. In the window we finally sold Johnson and Butterfield, we didn't pay over the odds on the final day, desperate to make a signing. And I love the talk of mapping out pathways to the first team from the academy for our most talented youngsters, so I'm pleased the players who did come in are only loans to fill temporary gaps.

That said, I have always worried when the opposition teamsheet read Jamie Paterson. Throughout his career he;s been a poor trainer and a bit of a knob, but he's always had talent. Good with both feet and surprisingly good in the air so if his attitude is got right he could prove an unexpected asset. Clearly we wanted an extra attacking body in and he's a decent option though wouldn't make my initial starting 11. Bristol City are obviously a promotion rival and I think they could well live to regret it.

Have we replaced Mount, Wilson, Tomori and Johnson? Bielik and Clarke look very promising. Shinnie, Dowell and Paterson will have to prove themselves. One of Knight, Sibley or Buchanan can be this year's Bogle. Rooney could prove the missing piece of the jigsaw to finally take us over the line. And between the sticks what Roos most lacks is presence, but now he's the number one he has to embrace this and demonstrate he has it.

 

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In a window when we sign a player of Rooney ability you have to say it's been a good one, also think Bielik and Clarke will prove very good signings, also think Shinnie will play a big part, all in all, I think our squad looks stronger than last year, but time will tell, I am so excited for this season, can not wait till 3 o'clock to see the the Rams run out at pp.

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Seems from that article that Paterson was far from our first choice on the wing.. very disappointing we missed out on a number of better targets. Doesn’t surprise me though, I can’t remember the last time Derby left their business to deadline day and actually made a decent day of it. Imo the whole deadline day thing is madness and leads to teams ending up in a mess like this waiting for other teams to respond, and it’s why the window shouldn’t exist imo. Seems the Sinclair rumours may have been baalocks though.

Sounds like we won’t see bielik in the squad till Tuesday either which is a bit annoying, but guess we’ve gotta make sure he’s ready.

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2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Seems from that article that Paterson was far from our first choice on the wing.. very disappointing we missed out on a number of better targets. Doesn’t surprise me though, I can’t remember the last time Derby left their business to deadline day and actually made a decent day of it. Imo the whole deadline day thing is madness and leads to teams ending up in a mess like this waiting for other teams to respond, and it’s why the window shouldn’t exist imo. Seems the Sinclair rumours may have been baalocks though.

Sounds like we won’t see bielik in the squad till Tuesday either which is a bit annoying, but guess we’ve gotta make sure he’s ready.

Didn’t we get Holmes on the last day of last season’s summer window?  He seems to have turned out alright, even though I suspect many said meh at the time. Whether we have had a good window is purely conjecture today. We will only know around October/November how astute we have been.

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18 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Didn’t we get Holmes on the last day of last season’s summer window?  He seems to have turned out alright, even though I suspect many said meh at the time. Whether we have had a good window is purely conjecture today. We will only know around October/November how astute we have been.

We did and he was an excellent signing, if with fitness concerns- key thing is, all our major business was done by deadline day last season, we were just after competition for places. That’s the position you what to be in on deadline day, not how we were this season needed one or two major signings. Of course our window may turn out to be a success if we do well this season obviously, but you can’t help but feel towards the end it hasn’t gone quite to plan for whatever reason. Quite why we don’t know, I’m sure they’ll be some that’ll argue we were distracted by the Rooney business, which is possibly why it went to the wire which left us in this position, but you can equally argue other clubs may have messed us around. Quite possible that Bournemouth said we could have ibe if we waited but then pulled the plug.

In all fairness, I actually quite rate Paterson even if he was a backup option. He’s not spectacular and I’d have preferred some if the other options, but I think he sorts that right wing position out even if he is a little underwhelming. My greatest concern right now is that we didn’t get a CM like Hendrick in to partner dowell. Until January when Rooney comes in, we only really have the currently injured and injury prone Holmes to play alongside side him, and the untested knight. Much as I rate Holmes and Knight looks good, that’s a risky position to be in. Also have to hope to god Roos doesn’t get injured, cause hamer has always stuck in my mind as a woeful goalie whenever I’ve seen him.

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27 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Seems from that article that Paterson was far from our first choice on the wing.. very disappointing we missed out on a number of better targets. Doesn’t surprise me though, I can’t remember the last time Derby left their business to deadline day and actually made a decent day of it. Imo the whole deadline day thing is madness and leads to teams ending up in a mess like this waiting for other teams to respond, and it’s why the window shouldn’t exist imo. Seems the Sinclair rumours may have been baalocks though.

Sounds like we won’t see bielik in the squad till Tuesday either which is a bit annoying, but guess we’ve gotta make sure he’s ready.

I see it rather differently, in that I am pleased we haven’t been held to ransom to pay over the odds generally at the last minute  for loans or signings that don't fit in with our new wage structure (or in Rooney's case, more than pays for itself.)

Timing is a bit irrelevant.  We got Rooney and Bielik over the line early just so we weren't panicking at the eleventh hour, but because of that some fans were disappointed with "deadline day".

As Nicholson says in the article, when you look at the window as a whole, it is more about the blend than the individuals and the time to judge is when we see how Cocu gets the squad playing over the course of the season.

I also don't mind waiting a while to see Bielik either. He's our one big long term investment this window and the last thing I wish for him is a shaky debut at the demanding Pride Park stadium when he's not ready. We'll look after him at Scunny on Tuesday and hopefully we will start to see him integrated into the team increasingly from then on. 

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15 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

My greatest concern right now is that we didn’t get a CM like Hendrick in to partner dowell. Until January when Rooney comes in, we only really have the currently injured and injury prone Holmes to play alongside side him, and the untested knight. Much as I rate Holmes and Knight looks good, that’s a risky position to be in. 

What about Shinnie and Evans? Evans had an excellent game at Huddersfield, only marginally behind Lawrence and Clarke, in my opinion.

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5 minutes ago, angieram said:

I see it rather differently, in that I am pleased we haven’t been held to ransom to pay over the odds generally at the last minute  for loans or signings that don't fit in with our new wage structure (or in Rooney's case, more than pays for itself.)

Timing is a bit irrelevant.  We got Rooney and Bielik over the line early just so we weren't panicking at the eleventh hour, but because of that some fans were disappointed with "deadline day".

As Nicholson says in the article, when you look at the window as a whole, it is more about the blend than the individuals and the time to judge is when we see how Cocu gets the squad playing over the course of the season.

I also don't mind waiting a while to see Bielik either. He's our one big long term investment this window and the last thing I wish for him is a shaky debut at the demanding Pride Park stadium when he's not ready. We'll look after him at Scunny on Tuesday and hopefully we will start to see him integrated into the team increasingly from then on. 

Yeah don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t want us burning money on the likes of another butterfield. But I just can’t help but feel there has to be some way we don’t keep leaving our business until deadline day. I personally don’t think the other deals affected anything, but you can see how someone could argue they’re a distraction. Deadline day is a poor day to do business on, cocu alluded to this himself saying he wanted things done before then. I think he’ll be disappointed that it got to the point it did, and that he didn’t manage to get all the players he wanted. As I say, we may have ended up in this situation for a number of reasons, and it may have been out our control, but it is still frustrating as a fan to see us struggle on deadline day again. It’ll have certainly made cocus job harder not having everything he wanted, and as I say that midfield worries me, I just hope it doesn’t cost us this season.

Like you say though, it’s entirely down to how cocu gets the squad playing. A good manager can take an average team and make them brilliant, there’s been many many examples of that. And I wouldn’t say we’re average either. So nothings decided about the way our season will go, one way or another, of course it isn’t at this stage. I just think cocus got a slightly harder job than he was hoping for when we went into the last few days of the window.

On bielik, I don’t mind waiting until he’s ready either, it’s the right thing to do, it’s just a little annoying if he could be the difference maker.

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10 minutes ago, angieram said:

What about Shinnie and Evans? Evans had an excellent game at Huddersfield, only marginally behind Lawrence and Clarke, in my opinion.

Evans I agree had an excellent game against Huddersfield. I still see him as a CDM though, he doesn’t have much of a clue in the final third bless him, though that’s not exactly to be unexpected playing in an unknown role. I don’t think he can be a solution there, certainly not starting regularly anyway, particulary not at home.

Shinnie is a conundrum and I must admit to forgetting about him a little.... I think his best position is in that 2 so he could be an option, but I wonder whether cocu thinks he fits his style.

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This all part of greater project. Cocu is trying to build a squad/club and it will take time. He is putting place a way of playing that suits our players, gets results and pleases the fans. He has to juggle a long term strategy as outlined by Mel and the academy needs while still ensuring we are competitive on the pitch now. I believe he will do it. 

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