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David

Our Summer Business

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Good OP that @David. Makes perfect sense to me. Personally, had I been told this is where we'd be before the window I'd have been delighted. Some strong additions to the team, still a lot of exciting youth to develop and the msall matter of Wazza to join in January. I'm well chuffed.

Critically, we don't seem to have forced things this time around which is also pleasing. Trying to solve all issues in a single window has hurt us badly in the past so a little patience now and another look in January seems an eminently sensible way forward.

COYR

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1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

But none of that is guaranteed and you can’t just assume it will be the case.

No guarantees either when bringing in new players. 

I can't get on board with using words like disaster and suicide, like I say it's not been a perfect window but who has had one? Just seen Huddersfield have let Mooey go now at the last minute, joining Brighton on loan. A lot of clubs out there that you would assume will be play off contention that have not replaced players that have left and could argue are significantly weaker but cash in the bank.

All the talk coming out the club was they were trying to bring more in, how far down the list do you go before it becomes a panic buy and paying over the odds at the last minute?

Surely you don't want another scenario where we're purchasing players at the last minute which we later regret? 4 months of scouting players that fit the Cocu brief at this stage would be more sensible at this stage.

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10 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Not all 4-3-3 formations play the same. Lampard never really played possession football like Cocu does, I'd imagine we'll have a lot more of the ball this year and play differently. Looks like more of a Mac 4-3-3 to me than a Lampard one. We don't make top 6? 😂 I think you objectively are a negative poster, you're writing our season off, when we just signed England's highest goal scorer, our record signing, loaned a colossus at the back, and brought in a world class coach. 

No of course they don’t, style/formation are entirely different things. But cocu was brought in because he had a similar style to Lampard is what we were told. So surely we need to replace Wilson if that’s the case? FWIW I personally do think cocus style will be different, but I disagree entirely that it’ll be like a Mac 433 or we’ll see more of the ball. Everything PSV fans say suggests cocu players counter attacking football. Lampards football will be closer to macs than Cocu imo- though Lampard had overreliance on individuals compared to Mac which is what cost him in comparison. Not saying that it’s a bad thing or I’m against a counter attacking set up, but I don’t think we’ll be playing possession football as a whole. In spells like early against Huddersfield yes we will, but that’s not always gonna be the case- And it’s not necessarily a bad thing to have that variety in our play.

You May take the view I’m a negative poster, but I just call things how I see them, same as anyone else. Ive posted plenty of positive things, and I agree that Clarke looks good so far (only one game though) and I’m ridiculously excited over Rooney. I also massively rate Bielik and I’m happy to have him in. But I just don’t think it’s enough- though I’m not sure how I’ve written our season off, because this is based on us not signing anyone else, which we surely will. That will change things entirely. All I’m saying is, with the current squad, cocu will truly have to be not far off world class to get us up (maybe he is but I think that’s a slight overstatement!)

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3 hours ago, David said:

Just watching Sky Sports News and looking at Twitter it reeks of desperation through Sky Sports generated hysteria. 

With just 4 hours left of the window, looking at the business we have done, the squad we have, I honestly think it’s been a fairly successful window for the club even if the window closed now and we go with what we have.

Perfect window? No, but successful with the acquisitions of Shinnie, Clarke, Dowell, Bielik and Rooney.

Take 5 minutes and look around other clubs and show me clubs which have had a perfect window, how many have squad with no areas you would say need strengthening?

How about the title favourites Leeds United having lost Jansson, Clarke, Roofe, Siaz, Peacock-Farrell, what have they replaced them with? Their squad is thinner than my hair now and they are left fighting for the scraps with a few hours to go.

Right wing, I get it, if we don’t bring one in you would say it’s possibly the weakest area in the team but we do have options in Jozefzoon, Waghorn, Bennett, Holmes plus the academy lads knocking at the door.

One of the main criticisms of the club over the years has been wasting money, Butterfield and Johnson both deadline day purchases, £10m+ that walked out the door for free last month, I wouldn’t want to see the club desperately chucking money on a last minute purchase that we later regret because an agent chucks a player at us with an hour of the window to go.

The window reopens in 4 months which will allow Cocu and the scouts time to address the position and identify a list of targets, hopefully across a wider area than we have in previous years, let’s not forget Cocu has only been at the club just over a month himself.

Season will not be won or lost over the next 4 months.

Finally, anyone that has any concerns over this team, go back and rewatch the first half against Huddersfield and tell me that wasn’t some of the best football we have played?

Close the window now and let’s get the football going. 

(Watch us go break our transfer record and sign a winger now)

Agreed. I'd rather we don't sign anyone else right now and give those guys plus the youngsters their chance

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39 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Whilst I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s a disaster, I agree if we do t add any more in this window it won’t have been a great one.

We finished a long way behind the top 2 last season, and only scraped into the play offs, we have lost some good players and not replaced them, hoping that we will be “close” enough to mount a challenge to the top 6 once Rooney arrives is not good business. Villa had to chance their manager and embark on a club record run to get into the top 6, whilst possible, the aim shouldn’t be to hope his arrival will boost our chances of a play off finish.

There is still an hour left though, Hughes (You heard it hear first) and Sinclair in will do me. 

I’m still hopeful we can get a winger or two in before the deadline as that’s the area we are weakest in , in my view. Lawrence, Jozefzoon, Anya and Bennett as our wide options isn’t anywhere near good enough. We seem to be fine every else on the pitch with good cover but that’s the one glaring area that we needed to improve , especially with wilson’s departure, and another GK if Carson leaves as expected. I don’t want to be harsh but Mitchell isn’t good enough and is too small to be a GK, we are pretty screwed if Roos is out at any time. 

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Do we need a winger?  Yes, we probably do to strengthen the look of the squad.   IF one doesn't come through the door today does that make this transfer window a disaster?  No, far from it. 

Maybe it will see us with a "what if we'd signed a winger in August" thought every now and again over the next couple of months, but a disaster it wouldn't be.  How can a window in which we've signed Bielik (an upgrade at CDM), Clarke (an upgrade at CD - as I think he will prove better than Tomori over the season), Dowell (who will prove his worth over and above the goals he scores), and Rooney (!), be called a disaster.  Add to that, the most important signing of all, Phillip Cocu - a huge upgrade on the previous manager.

What's the worst that will happen?  We go through to January with what we've got.  Not the end of the world, and the squad as it is won't be out of things by any means on January 1st.

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8 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Agree that bielik will be better, in our system, than Huddlestone. Clarke imo will be on a par with Tomori over the course of the season, because Tomori was unreal at the end and we’d never get someone that good. Dowell is half the player mount is imo, and I think people are kidding themselves if they think he’ll replace mounts output. That’s not a huge slight on dowell, as Mount was ridiculously good and we could never replace him with any single player. Imo he needs two players to replace him, and that’s why we still need a CM. To say mount was poor for 2-3 months is laughable, some people just can’t see the things players do in the background that are less noticeable but vital. The form we showed when he was out emphasises how important he was last year.

Yes some players will get better hopefully, like bogle and Roos and Waghorn/Marriott playing more often. But none of that is guaranteed and you can’t just assume it will be the case. You’d hope cocu is better than Lampard tactically and that helps too, but he’s not a miracle worker, he needs the players. Without players to help replace mount and Wilson, imo were much weaker than last year and could struggle to be in a good enough position for Rooney to boost us to promotion from- which with his quality he could well do if we have a good enough team elsewhere.

Honestly I think if the window shuts right now we are in a slightly better place than the start of last season due to a combination of some of the recruitment already, players developing and crucially Cocu being a better coach and being better tactically. We are already seeing signs of players potentially showing more in Evans and Lawrence and against Huddersfield we did something we never really managed under Frank; in the second half we completely took the sting out of the game and cruised to victory.

Saying Dowell is half as good as Mount is hyperbolic and I'd reckon Dowell will have a similar output this season as Mount did last in terms of goals and assists. As for overall play whilst not being as talented I think it's likely we better utilise it.

Right now I think the squad is capable of a top 6 challenge. A couple additions would cement that and who knows what happens when Rooney joins and we potentially bolster in January.

 

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4 minutes ago, harwich ram said:

One of the worst summer transfer windows ever for Derby

Now you should know that drinking in the afternoon addles your brain

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Agree that bielik will be better, in our system, than Huddlestone. Clarke imo will be on a par with Tomori over the course of the season, because Tomori was unreal at the end and we’d never get someone that good. Dowell is half the player mount is imo, and I think people are kidding themselves if they think he’ll replace mounts output. That’s not a huge slight on dowell, as Mount was ridiculously good and we could never replace him with any single player. Imo he needs two players to replace him, and that’s why we still need a CM. To say mount was poor for 2-3 months is laughable, some people just can’t see the things players do in the background that are less noticeable but vital. The form we showed when he was out emphasises how important he was last year.

Yes some players will get better hopefully, like bogle and Roos and Waghorn/Marriott playing more often. But none of that is guaranteed and you can’t just assume it will be the case. You’d hope cocu is better than Lampard tactically and that helps too, but he’s not a miracle worker, he needs the players. Without players to help replace mount and Wilson, imo were much weaker than last year and could struggle to be in a good enough position for Rooney to boost us to promotion from- which with his quality he could well do if we have a good enough team elsewhere.

Mount didn't score for about 4months for an attacking midfielder that is pretty poor, yes he was a creative player who did other stuff but his passing wasn't even that good, his main strength is his ability to carry the ball forward and dribble past people we might miss that slightly as we don't have that many on his level at carrying the ball but we have Holmes who can do similar but not quite as good and potentially others. Dowell is much more of a Unit than Mount so he might offer something different in terms of physical presence as well.  Mount is a quality player but his impact for us wasn't as massive as made out,  with Mount in the team we still struggled breaking down absolutely poo teams like Bolton and Millwall and only managed to scrape into the playoffs and Wilson and were ineffective at Wembley too .The system of a team is much more important than 1 or 2 players unless you are talking about a Messi or Ronaldo level player. Also Bogle is miles better than what he was first half of last season , he has gone from a liability to one of our best players and at his age he is rapidly improving.

Edited by Marriot Ram99

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Keep calm. I was abused by some for telling you the day Lampard would leave but I'll try again.

If what I'm told is correct, we'll be fine 🙂 

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11 minutes ago, David said:

No guarantees either when bringing in new players. 

I can't get on board with using words like disaster and suicide, like I say it's not been a perfect window but who has had one? Just seen Huddersfield have let Mooey go now at the last minute, joining Brighton on loan. A lot of clubs out there that you would assume will be play off contention that have not replaced players that have left and could argue are significantly weaker but cash in the bank.

All the talk coming out the club was they were trying to bring more in, how far down the list do you go before it becomes a panic buy and paying over the odds at the last minute?

Surely you don't want another scenario where we're purchasing players at the last minute which we later regret? 4 months of scouting players that fit the Cocu brief at this stage would be more sensible at this stage.

No there isn’t, but that’s why you need to do your research on them to minimise the risks.

No ones had a perfect window, but without two more signings ours isn’t even good imo. I’m not worried about what other teams have done, I’m just worried about us getting a good squad together. We’re not far off one, but without those signings, we don’t quite have one in all areas imo- which is what you need to go up.

Of course we don’t want to be panic buying poo, but we don’t want to leave obvious gaps in the team till January as that could derail the season. I’d argue if we’re getting so far down our options that they’re becoming panic buys, then our recruitment team has done a poor job of researching realistic targets to start with. I personally struggle to trust our recruitment team after previous windows, but that’s more my nature than anything else.

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Not bad bit of business so far shame Rooney won't start until January. On the opening few posts about the Huddersfield game. Pleased with the first half although it made for uncomfortable watching that 2nd half at 2-1 up. We hardly had a sniff of their goal. Glad they did not have their shooting boots on!

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10 minutes ago, harwich ram said:

One of the worst summer transfer windows ever for Derby

I hope you  don't sit near me at games - infact, looking at your username, hopefully you dont waste the journey time it would take to get here. 

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1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

No there isn’t, but that’s why you need to do your research on them to minimise the risks.

No ones had a perfect window, but without two more signings ours isn’t even good imo. I’m not worried about what other teams have done, I’m just worried about us getting a good squad together. We’re not far off one, but without those signings, we don’t quite have one in all areas imo- which is what you need to go up.

Of course we don’t want to be panic buying poo, but we don’t want to leave obvious gaps in the team till January as that could derail the season. I’d argue if we’re getting so far down our options that they’re becoming panic buys, then our recruitment team has done a poor job of researching realistic targets to start with. I personally struggle to trust our recruitment team after previous windows, but that’s more my nature than anything else.

Exactly. Say we have researched and targeted 15 wingers, all of them are no goes for various reasons, picked up injuries, off else where, other deals have fell through so they are staying, what then? 

It's easy to say the recruitment team has done a poor job, but let's not forget Cocu has only been here a month to not only assess what we have but look through the list of targets that have been created. The scouts will have spent the last few months looking for players to fit Lampard's needs, maybe these are not players Cocu wanted and left us with a much smaller shortlist to work with.

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Clarke, Bierlik, Shinnie, Dowell all cracking signings at our level, I just can’t understand the wristslashing, Christ what more do you want us to do? go and sign Wayne Rooney??

The only place I would have strengthened would have been RW but decent ones certainly aren’t ten-a-penny, I’m also kinda thinking a fully fit Marriott up top and Waggy out wide will be a go to this season

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