Scott Sinclair - signed for PNE

[Millenniumram]

44 minutes ago, RandomAccessMemory said:

 

Yep, it's probably most likely to be used for players out of contract next summer that aren't playing much of a part at their current club, but a new club are prepared to take their wages on/the player is prepared to give up a portion of their wage to join a new club to play regularly.

The problems would come I guess if a club wanted a player that another club weren't prepared to release for nothing, but they have an agreement to pay more than they would for a different player from the same club in the next window. So Club A releases Player 1 to join Club B, then Club B pays Club A an increased amount for Player 2 (to cover what they would have also paid for Player 1) in the next window to get around the rules. They could also then loan Player 2 back to Club A.

Edit: Another potential scenario, is there anything to stop a player paying a club to be released? So the club they move to can pay the player a large signing on fee and the player can pay that to the club they're moving from?

I would have to think that it’d only be players that are way out of the first team picture at their current club and the club would rather pay a lump sum to rid of him now rather than keep paying his wages and get nothing in return. It would have to be someone equivalent to an ikechi anya here effectively. They’ll be a few out there but not many so if this loophole exists, I’d be very surprised to see it used more than a few times- maybe not even enough to draw the EFLs attention.

The scenario you say would certainly be a loophole i would envisage having existed at some point, even as an FFP workaround delayed transfer fees to another season, but I would’ve thought something like that would’ve been closed up by now. A lot of FFP loopholes were closed with the watford situation where they loaned about 50 players from one club. Would also require you wanting two players from the same club in one season which isn’t all that common, so I doubt a scenario like that would come up often regardless.

The second scanerio is pretty much exactly how a release clause works, particulary in Europe. So there’s nothing to stop such a thing happening, though over here money normally exchanges hands in the opposite direction in the case of a contract termination. In this case though, if that happened outside the window, I’d expect there to be a law which views it as a transfer fee much like it is in the case of release clauses, and it would thus be outlawed outside a transfer window.

[RandomAccessMemory]

3 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I would have to think that it’d only be players that are way out of the first team picture at their current club and the club would rather pay a lump sum to rid of him now rather than keep paying his wages and get nothing in return. It would have to be someone equivalent to an ikechi anya here effectively. They’ll be a few out there but not many so if this loophole exists, I’d be very surprised to see it used more than a few times- maybe not even enough to draw the EFLs attention.

The scenario you say would certainly be a loophole i would envisage having existed at some point, even as an FFP workaround delayed transfer fees to another season, but I would’ve thought something like that would’ve been closed up by now. A lot of FFP loopholes were closed with the watford situation where they loaned about 50 players from one club. Would also require you wanting two players from the same club in one season which isn’t all that common, so I doubt a scenario like that would come up often regardless.

The second scanerio is pretty much exactly how a release clause works, particulary in Europe. So there’s nothing to stop such a thing happening, though over here money normally exchanges hands in the opposite direction in the case of a contract termination. In this case though, if that happened outside the window, I’d expect there to be a law which views it as a transfer fee much like it is in the case of release clauses, and it would thus be outlawed outside a transfer window.

A club doesn't always have to pay a player to release them though surely. If both clubs and the player want the move they can just release them for nothing so they can sign with the new club, it's only if the new club isn't prepared to pay at least the same as the old club or the player isn't prepared to take the drop in wages that a lump sum would need to be paid. It looks like one from the outside as it's not widely publicised but it might be that it's not even a loophole, if that's the case drawing their attention wouldn't be a problem.

It's possible there could be other rules that prevent it somewhere, I don't know. It would be unlikely, but clubs could say they saw the second one whilst scouting the first one and were impressed. If they didn't actually want the second player they could loan them back before the end of that window (a few weeks later if the move is done right at the beginning) and then 'sell' them back in the next window (a player can only move permanently once during one window?) saying they couldn't settle in a new area or country? Unless there's rules against it and/or a paper trail that shows what was planned between the two clubs I don't see how that could be stopped.

I know that's the case in Spain, but I think the release clause money gets paid directly to La Liga doesn't it? If that's the case I don't think it could happen with a Spanish based player, because it wouldn't be able to be kept just between the two clubs involved. At least the tax makes this scenario unlikely to happen anyway.

I'm clearly overthinking it, though I expect all of the clubs to be doing the same thing, trying to think of all the ways around the rules if it helps them! ?

[Nookiebear1]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/michael-stewart-makes-scott-sinclair-20927788.amp

 

No actual link but do we think he maybe coming to Derby. I think we were linked in the summer but ended up with Paterson 

[ossieram]

4 minutes ago, Nookiebear1 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/michael-stewart-makes-scott-sinclair-20927788.amp

 

No actual link but do we think he maybe coming to Derby. I think we were linked in the summer but ended up with Paterson 

I hope not.

[Srg]

No chance whatsoever. 

[roboto]

20 minutes ago, Srg said:

No chance whatsoever. 

I wouldn’t be so dismissive. I heard from my Celtic supporting mate (who gets a fair few things right like this), that Sinclair was on the verge of signing for a Championship club on deadline day but it didn’t get over the line. Wouldn’t surprise me if we were in the mix. Would be a good signing IMO. A bit like Lawrence but more versatile (good on the wing) and has performed at a higher level too.

[BodminRam]

9 minutes ago, roboto said:

I wouldn’t be so dismissive. I heard from my Celtic supporting mate (who gets a fair few things right like this), that Sinclair was on the verge of signing for a Championship club on deadline day but it didn’t get over the line. Wouldn’t surprise me if we were in the mix. Would be a good signing IMO. A bit like Lawrence but more versatile (good on the wing) and has performed at a higher level too.

I think that's right, we tried as I read , but for some reason it didn't go through, hence us ending up with Paterson at the last min

[Srg]

52 minutes ago, roboto said:

I wouldn’t be so dismissive. I heard from my Celtic supporting mate (who gets a fair few things right like this), that Sinclair was on the verge of signing for a Championship club on deadline day but it didn’t get over the line. Wouldn’t surprise me if we were in the mix. Would be a good signing IMO. A bit like Lawrence but more versatile (good on the wing) and has performed at a higher level too.

#ITK. Not happening. 

[CWC1983]

No one seems to know whats going on with Sinclair. 

The journalists keep on asking, but Lennon says he wont be sold in Jan and that he's part of his plans. However he never makes the squad and all and sundry gets picked before him. Strange. 

[roboto]

35 minutes ago, Srg said:

#ITK. Not happening. 

Haha! I’ve never claimed to be in The know. Just adding to the rumours and I’d be happy to see him playing for us.

[Jimbo Ram]

No thanks....

[Millenniumram]

This is one that I think is a very real possibility for the January window. I’ve heard/seen people saying that this was a deal that we were very much trying to get done on deadline day, but it fell through which is why we ended up with Paterson. Also heard suggestions that Sinclair was very unhappy that the deal wasn’t allowed to go through. If that was the case, given he’s not featuring for Celtic and we’re surely still in the market for a winger, then I don’t think it’s a stretch to think we could force this one through in January. That’s if we still want him, of course.

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, Millenniumram said:

This is one that I think is a very real possibility for the January window. I’ve heard/seen people saying that this was a deal that we were very much trying to get done on deadline day, but it fell through which is why we ended up with Paterson. Also heard suggestions that Sinclair was very unhappy that the deal wasn’t allowed to go through. If that was the case, given he’s not featuring for Celtic and we’re surely still in the market for a winger, then I don’t think it’s a stretch to think we could force this one through in January. That’s if we still want him, of course.

Flatters to deceive and isn't getting any younger. One reasonable spell at Swansea and then doing OK in the SPL against very poor teams. Think we can do better...

[Millenniumram]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Flatters to deceive and isn't getting any younger. One reasonable spell at Swansea and then doing OK in the SPL against very poor teams. Think we can do better...

Don’t disagree. Personally don’t rate him these days, don’t think he’d be an improvement on what we’ve got - and let’s be fair, that ain’t exactly great at the moment! Just saying, don’t rule it out as a possibility.

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Don’t disagree. Personally don’t rate him these days, don’t think he’d be an improvement on what we’ve got - and let’s be fair, that ain’t exactly great at the moment! Just saying, don’t rule it out as a possibility.

Agree, hope the link is unfounded ?

[Nuwtfly]

https://www.footballinsider247.com/Derby-county-plot-fresh-celtic-player-swoop/

"Derby County a plotting a fresh January swoop for frozen-out Celtic winger Scott Sinclair, Football Insider has learned.

"The 30-year-old has not started a single match all season and failed to make the matchday squad for Saturday’s 4-0 win over Livingston despite the absence of first choice Mohamed Elyounoussi.

"A Derby source has told Football Insider that the club are keeping tabs on the situation of Sinclair as they look to strengthen in the wide attacking areas in the winter window."

[Millenniumram]

There we go, thought there’d at least be a link.

[therealhantsram]

12 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

This is one that I think is a very real possibility for the January window. I’ve heard/seen people saying that this was a deal that we were very much trying to get done on deadline day, but it fell through which is why we ended up with Paterson. Also heard suggestions that Sinclair was very unhappy that the deal wasn’t allowed to go through. If that was the case, given he’s not featuring for Celtic and we’re surely still in the market for a winger, then I don’t think it’s a stretch to think we could force this one through in January. That’s if we still want him, of course.

Paterson goes back to Brizzle on Jan 1st, so I think we are very much in the market for a left winger. 

Did you hear whether it was meant to be a loan or perm deal?

 

[Millenniumram]

2 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Paterson goes back to Brizzle on Jan 1st, so I think we are very much in the market for a left winger. 

Did you hear whether it was meant to be a loan or perm deal?

 

Pretty sure Paterson is on a season long loan, but yeah by all accounts we’re still after a winger, I think SN said as much in the DET... not that that’s the most reliable source these days.

Sorry didn’t hear anything about the latter, though from pure guesswork on my behalf, I wonder whether we wanted a loan like we got with Paterson, but Celtic wanted a perm and that’s why it broke down.

[Sparkle]

Not for me as it stands as I would want room for our youngsters to play

obvious elephant in the room of course would be if we are selling players? Lawrence has obvious value and a good bid came in and jafoozon has a value still and may want to move on to play.