v Swansea City (H) Match Thread

[Derby blood]

2 games in, and some can not wait to moan, today was a nearly performance, some good stuff played but lacked the killer ball in the final third, but that will come, our defence looks strong, Clarke and Keogh where solid, once we get Bielik in, and I still think Shinnie will play his part, and get Marriott in there, we will be as good as any team, and then in Jan, we get Rooney in there , plenty to look forward to.

[Remy the hare]

9 minutes ago, Alpha said:

None of the players scored close to 20 but we finished 6th and made the play off final

The last player to score 20 for us was Vydra. The season before that he scored 5. The season before that? 3. 

The player before him was Chris Martin. That was the one and only time he scored 20 goals in his career. 

Other top strikers you may consider. Roofe was Leeds top scorer last season with 14. He has never scored 20 league goals

Billy Sharp at Championship level has done it once

Patrick Bamford has never done it

Mitrovic scored 4 goals in 25 appearances for Newcastle in the Championship. 

Chris Wood scored 27 goals in 16/17.  In the several seasons he had spent in the league before that his highest was 13. 

Who would have predicted conference player Callum Wilson to hit 20 for Bournemouth?

My point is:

Nobody sticks around at this level looking like scoring 20 goals per season. Teams are capable of promotion without a 20 goal striker. Players are capable of scoring 20 goals from out of nowhere if the team suits them. 

Oh, and we have a player coming in January that's scored over 350 career goals. 

Spot on. Nobody had Pukki scoring 29 last season either. 

[Owd miner]

 

[Chester40]

Roos 7 not much to do. But calm with the ball and coming off his line.

Bogle 8 good going forward before his injury. Earned a softish penalty

Keogh 8 solid, just one misplace pass but never looked worried generally

Clark 8 looked comfortable in all ways

Malone 7 copped a lot of flak and his passing suffered then but defensively was solid and got up and down the line 

Evans 5 neat, tidy and largely anonymous

Huddlestone 6 bit laboured but his passing nearly unlocked them and defensively useful

Lawrence 4 barely touched the ball, nothing to report 

Jozefzoon 6 couple of nice turns, worked hard but not a threat

Dowell 7 involved lots, good engine, some decent passes but last ball was a real bad one generally

Waghorn 4 sooo frustrating. Touch was clumsy, loose passing, shields the ball but then passes safely backwards, shooting was terrible. Worked hard but otherwise was a 2 really. Sorry ..like him but not good today.

Subs

Lowe 7 did nothing wrong

Paterson 6 buzzed around but barely touched it

Marriott 5 no chance really except to blaze horribly over. 

[Rampage]

How can Waghorn be so rusty after a good preseason. Surely you can either pass a ball or not. Shooting within such a big goal frame is not that hard. What do I know.

[Jourdan]

I am not worried about a potential lack of goals.

It’s August. Players are still finding their feet and finding their match sharpness.

If we saw a game like today’s in April, then I’d be concerned.

Waghorn just needs one and the rest will follow. Today was just one of those days where nothing in the 18 yard box clicked for him.

It’s funny - everyone will cry out for Marriott on the back of today. But if we had played him from the start, I doubt he sees those chances Waghorn had.

Waghorn might not be the same level of finisher but he contributes to the team in a more rounded way and can stay fit.

Stick with him.

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

Not sure why he was taking everything. 

Neither am I, after the first couple it was painfully clear it wasn’t working for him. Even Lawrence took a better corner ffs! 

Id half be temped to give them to Malone, he’s about our only decent crosser

[JfR]

16 minutes ago, Alpha said:

None of the players scored close to 20 but we finished 6th and made the play off final

The last player to score 20 for us was Vydra. The season before that he scored 5. The season before that? 3. 

The player before him was Chris Martin. That was the one and only time he scored 20 goals in his career. 

Other top strikers you may consider. Roofe was Leeds top scorer last season with 14. He has never scored 20 league goals

Billy Sharp at Championship level has done it once

Patrick Bamford has never done it

Mitrovic scored 4 goals in 25 appearances for Newcastle in the Championship. 

Chris Wood scored 27 goals in 16/17.  In the several seasons he had spent in the league before that his highest was 13. 

Who would have predicted conference player Callum Wilson to hit 20 for Bournemouth?

My point is:

Nobody sticks around at this level looking like scoring 20 goals per season. Teams are capable of promotion without a 20 goal striker. Players are capable of scoring 20 goals from out of nowhere if the team suits them. 

Oh, and we have a player coming in January that's scored over 350 career goals. 

To add to this, many teams have been promoted without a 20+ goal striker. Last season the promoted teams all had focal point strikers, but that's not always the case. Wolverhampton went up with the most GF of any team in the league in 2017-18, but Diogo Jota was their top scorer with just 17 goals. Likewise Cardiff went up with Callum Paterson being top league scorer with just 10 of their 69 goals. The season before that Huddersfield went up with Elias Kachunga being top scorer with 12 goals, and second place Nahki Wells scoring 7 goals fewer than he did the season prior.

[BathRam72]

3 hours ago, TommyPowel said:

If we had drawn at huddersfield and won today everybody would be happy

 

I agree but I didnt say two clean sheets, did I? 

[goldstar]

17 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

It’s funny - everyone will cry out for Marriott on the back of today. But if we had played him from the start, I doubt he sees those chances Waghorn had.

Waghorn might not be the same level of finisher but he contributes to the team in a more rounded way and can stay fit.

Stick with him.

Thats the thing, he very rarely gets the chance so how can you say that? And as for the level of finishing, I do rate Waghorn but he's here to score goals which Marriott is better at.

[jono]

Tough game played by two teams that weren’t that sharp. Draw a fair result but we could have nicked it in the last 15 minutes and wouldn’t have been undeserving.

The pen was a good save from an ok shot but tbh Bogle went down after a little shoulder nudge. If they had done that we would have been screaming diver and Bamford.

Clarke and Keogh = imperious

Bogle = dangerous .. hope the injury isn’t long term

Malone = lots don’t seem to like him and it’s true he lacks a bit of polish, but he has guts, is wide awake, a good outlet, harries when out of possession and plays the ball on his first touch. Oh yes and he crosses

Dowell = 2 or 3 nice touches, he is skilled but he isn’t Mason Mount and without the ball looks a bit half hearted to me

Flo Jo = didn’t look great in the first half but grew in to the game and in the last 15 was looking much more effective. I honestly think he lacks confidence 

Hudds = just when you want to moan because he is like a super tanker taking about 3 days to get up to speed he then tracks back, dink’s the ball “back handed” out of the attackers way. Then he’ll spray a gem of a pass and switch the play brilliantly. But oh no don’t put him in a race for a loose ball .. he need a 5 second start

Waggy = worked hard, not enough close support but the pens miss summed up his day, nothing came off, touch was clumsy. Just an average minus today but he’ll be back 

Lawrence = bit like Waggy, it wasn’t working for him today

Evans ? I didn’t even notice him. Think he’s better at the back but with Clarke there it isn’t going to happen.

clarke won all but one header and even that one ended up with a Derby Player and when he made a mistake at the end he threw everything he had to get back and recover it. He was visibly furious with himself. I like him, he is a beast of a defender and 22 ??? I’d have him even over Tomori .. Brilliant

the best bit about this is that we didn’t give up, we got a point instead of last minute heartbreaker.

Get Bielzik and Holmes in and the recipe changes. Bit disappointed not to be able to jump up as the ball his the back of the net but by no means downhearted. Top 6 ... keep it up lads 

[JfR]

A couple of stats I would like to point out after this game are that Derby had both the most shots (17) and most shots from within the box (14) of any team in Match Day 2, despite playing against a side that spent a large amount of the game happy to sit in and defend.

To put that in context, when Leeds dominated play against a lacklustre Forest side earlier today they only managed 14 shots with 11 from within the box.

I think this is important to point out for two reasons:

Firstly, it demonstrates a massive change in how Derby approach the final third of the pitch compared to last season. Last season Derby were the team to take the highest percentage of shots from outside of the box (48%), and the lowest percentage of shots from both within the box (47%) and in the 6 yard box (5%).

Secondly, I think it demonstrates that even though the performance was disappointing today, Cocu's philosophy seems to be being taken on board and the players are starting to implement it.

I think it's reasonable to be disappointed today, but I think we have to remember it's still very early both in the season and in Cocu's reign. I think more than anything Derby were let down today by errors in and around the opposition box, but silly mistakes are to be expected this early on in a season, and even more so when you have players who are learning to do something entirely different in those situations to what they had been taught to do for the entirety of last year.

If these sorts of shooting chances are achieved at this frequency throughout the year, then I think if sharpness, decision making and accuracy start improving - which I suspect they will - then we will look a far better side in front of goal than we did today.

[Jourdan]

4 minutes ago, goldstar said:

Thats the thing, he very rarely gets the chance so how can you say that? And as for the level of finishing, I do rate Waghorn but he's here to score goals which Marriott is better at.

You are right that he has been in and out of the side, and you could argue he deserves more of a chance.

I do find it telling that it’s two managers now who seem to favour other players in Jack’s position. Is it his fitness? Is it his work rate? Is he too limited? One has to wonder, because he is a poacher and a great finisher, no doubt about that.

But if Cocu favours one up front, you can see why he opts for someone in the Waghorn or Chris Martin mould.

Is Marriott going to open up the game and contribute to our all round play in the same way players like Chris Martin or Waghorn (on a good day) can?

[DCFC Ram]

Roos 7 not much to do.

Bogle 8 looked quality as usual

Keogh 7 he did ok. A couple of trademark misplaced passes, but he certainly wasn't alone in that today

Clark 8  he's a good centre half who just does what is needed without the theatrics

Malone 6 worked hard but lost the ball too often

Evans 5 didn't achieve a lot in the first half before getting the hook

Huddlestone 6 strong, slow and made some good passes

Lawrence 5 did some covering work sometimes, otherwise largely irrelevant 

Jozefzoon 5 worked hard at times, turned his man at times but his progress is too slow

Dowell 7 too inconsistent today. Some decent football but got caught out too often on the ball and passing wasn't great at times

Waghorn 5 worked hard as usual. Missed a handful of half (plus) chances and the penno

Subs

Lowe 7 got busy straight away and did ok

Paterson 5 I'll reserve judgement. There were times when he didn't show or make as much effort as I would have expected. No witch hint from me though.

Marriott 5 didn't get much inside the box but did quite well in the air against their CHs

[RadioactiveWaste]

So is it a case of the team looked like they knew what they were trying to do but haven't got it down yet, hence ponderous?

Give it time to gel, it'll come.

Norwich and sheff utd took time to get well good at what they do. Give Cocu a few months at least. We're 2games in, neither that bad.

[Sean]

Aldo Kalulu plays for Derby?

[1of4]

3 hours ago, lukedcfc said:

2 would be nice, preferably wingers that can get to the byline by beating a man. 

No good having wingers who can get to the byline if we don't have enough bodies getting into the box, to make use of any crosses into the box.

[TommyPowell]

1 hour ago, Rampage said:

How can Waghorn be so rusty after a good preseason. Surely you can either pass a ball or not. Shooting within such a big goal frame is not that hard. What do I know.

Because he is human even footballers have off days

[europia]

1 hour ago, Rampage said:

How can Waghorn be so rusty after a good preseason. Surely you can either pass a ball or not. Shooting within such a big goal frame is not that hard. What do I know.

I guess that's why Waghorn is a half decent championship player and not PL standard. The very best players are consistent and don't drop their performance levels so drastically. 

[Sexydadbod]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

None of the players scored close to 20 but we finished 6th and made the play off final

The last player to score 20 for us was Vydra. The season before that he scored 5. The season before that? 3. 

The player before him was Chris Martin. That was the one and only time he scored 20 goals in his career. 

Other top strikers you may consider. Roofe was Leeds top scorer last season with 14. He has never scored 20 league goals

Billy Sharp at Championship level has done it once

Patrick Bamford has never done it

Mitrovic scored 4 goals in 25 appearances for Newcastle in the Championship. 

Chris Wood scored 27 goals in 16/17.  In the several seasons he had spent in the league before that his highest was 13. 

Who would have predicted conference player Callum Wilson to hit 20 for Bournemouth?

My point is:

Nobody sticks around at this level looking like scoring 20 goals per season. Teams are capable of promotion without a 20 goal striker. Players are capable of scoring 20 goals from out of nowhere if the team suits them. 

Oh, and we have a player coming in January that's scored over 350 career goals. 

Whilst I hear what you are saying and I don’t disagree, the teams who went up tended to share the goals around the team, for me our wingers or attacking midfielders are nowhere near good enough goalscoring wise or assist wise/chance creating to take the burden off Waghorn and Marriott.

For me we are in a bit of a pickle, our team is set up is to get the best out of striker and make him the focal point. However, the supply to the forward (Waghorn today) is nowhere near good enough. Waghorn wasn’t great today but strikers are only as good as our service so I don’t blame Waghorn. What we need for starters is someone at left back like Bogle but for the left back hand side, someone who gets it into the box quickly rather than taking 50 years to make a decision about what to do with the ball like malone.

The ‘George thorne’ Role will be filled by Bielik-someone who breaks up play and gets it forward quicker. Then someone to drive with the ball from midfield -someone like Holmes will help with this but the problem is he’s always injured. Then someone on the wing who is somewhat consistent- hopefully Paterson can be a temporary solution.