Our relationship with Chelsea

[MackworthRamIsGod]

With Chelsea being back from Japan and their players starting to leave on loan you would have thought the "preferential treatment" would have kicked in and our squad would be boosted by the arrival of 4 loan signings.

The idea of Chelsea loans appears to be fading fast and I wonder, was our relationship with Chelsea left as positive as we all thought it would be, or were bridges burnt? We certainly don't seem to be being sent any yachts as yet.

Or is money so tight that we are having to wait for a sale of a Bogle/Marriott before we can strike.

I just think if we had money and our relationship with Chelsea was sound there wouldn't be any waiting around with the season starting Monday. Something isn't right.

[Ghost of Clough]

Maybe Cocu wanted to have a good luck at the players already at the club before getting new players in?

[MackworthRamIsGod]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Maybe Cocu wanted to have a good luck at the players already at the club before getting new players in?

Well clearly that could be proven in the next few days, Cocu has had plenty of time to look at what he has got so we should expect at least 5 new faces by next Thursday.

 

[DRBee]

10 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

With Chelsea being back from Japan and their players starting to leave on loan you would have thought the "preferential treatment" would have kicked in and our squad would be boosted by the arrival of 4 loan signings.

The idea of Chelsea loans appears to be fading fast and I wonder, was our relationship with Chelsea left as positive as we all thought it would be, or were bridges burnt? We certainly don't seem to be being sent any yachts as yet.

Or is money so tight that we are having to wait for a sale of a Bogle/Marriott before we can strike.

I just think if we had money and our relationship with Chelsea was sound there wouldn't be any waiting around with the season starting Monday. Something isn't right.

As Boris would say, a bit of common sense is needed here.

What promises do you know have been made?

We need players for specific positions .... are you expecting Chelsea to provide these?

Have not Chelsea been held up in their squad management as well as us , given FLs late appointment?

How many Chelsea loans have gone out and what calibre of players are involved ?

 

Personally I don't think any relationship between Derby and Chelsea (if any such relationship exists)  can go beyond 'we'll help you if we can, but only if and when it suits Chelsea'.

 

[Raich Carter]

I think it's a bit of both - waiting for the Prem teams to get back from their tours so they can evaluate what they need and PC doing the same. He did say he expected some movement this week and that makes sense.

Looks like we won't get any of the lads back from last year so obvs we're going to be taking risks with new loanees who prob don't have Prem experience. It worked last year but there's no guarantee is there. 

I'm disappointed if it's true what PC said about not signing players from his network (i.e. PSV / Dutch). I think we do need strong technical players - the Baiano/Eranio effect was astonishing and a breath of fresh air. Baiano got found out eventually and didn't have the mental strength to cope but my word, those boys were a joy to watch and Eranio adapted extremely well but wasn't the quickest or strongest so technical ability can work in this country in the right team (i.e. Carsley and DPFG doing the running and tackling).... oh those were the days... I sound so old reminiscing like this but it can't be helped. We had some real flair players at times and it made going to the game such a great experience - we need that exciting / mental / frustrating flair player that gets the hair on the back of your neck up. Asanovic, Eranio, Kinky (for some), Wanchope, Stimac - they were all flawed but just brought something special to the game.

Anyway, what was this thread about? Nurse... I'm wet again.....

Edited to add : apologies to the topic police. I know I wandered drastically off topic but I couldn't help myself. I went all misty eyed.

[WilkoRam]

8 minutes ago, DRBee said:

As Boris would say, a bit of common sense is needed here.

What promises do you know have been made?

We need players for specific positions .... are you expecting Chelsea to provide these?

Have not Chelsea been held up in their squad management as well as us , given FLs late appointment?

How many Chelsea loans have gone out and what calibre of players are involved ?

 

Personally I don't think any relationship between Derby and Chelsea (if any such relationship exists)  can go beyond 'we'll help you if we can, but only if and when it suits Chelsea'.

 

Unlike Boris, you’re making sense. This idea that we should have had loans from Chelsea already would suggest they have a young player in a position we want, who is at the level we want and who Chelsea don’t see as being first team this year. That’s probably not the case. Both Cocu and Lampard have been assessing squads and will now look at what their first team squad looks like. I imagine IF we ask about a Chelsea player on loan we’ll be looked at favourably if they’re willing to loan to a Championship club. That’s all, nobody should be expecting half the Chelsea reserves to rock up at Moor Farm

[Spanish]

13 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Personally I don't think any relationship between Derby and Chelsea (if any such relationship exists)  can go beyond 'we'll help you if we can, but only if and when it suits Chelsea'.

 

I would add to that, CFC know that we look after young talent very well and have proven to be able to enhance the experience and help them grow.  That's got to help I guess

[ThePrisoner]

I think it's more Frank doesn't know his 25 yet. He's inexperienced at that level (he's still inexperienced at this level) so his decision making is probably taking a bit of a hit with the pressure of making the right selection. Once he has selected, the loan team and youth staff will work at getting some of the youth some loans.

Maybe they'll come to us, maybe they won't. It's not a given. 

[Rampage]

1 hour ago, Raich Van Carter said:

I think it's a bit of both - waiting for the Prem teams to get back from their tours so they can evaluate what they need and PC doing the same. He did say he expected some movement this week and that makes sense.

Looks like we won't get any of the lads back from last year so obvs we're going to be taking risks with new loanees who prob don't have Prem experience. It worked last year but there's no guarantee is there. 

I'm disappointed if it's true what PC said about not signing players from his network (i.e. PSV / Dutch). I think we do need strong technical players - the Baiano/Eranio effect was astonishing and a breath of fresh air. Baiano got found out eventually and didn't have the mental strength to cope but my word, those boys were a joy to watch and Eranio adapted extremely well but wasn't the quickest or strongest so technical ability can work in this country in the right team (i.e. Carsley and DPFG doing the running and tackling).... oh those were the days... I sound so old reminiscing like this but it can't be helped. We had some real flair players at times and it made going to the game such a great experience - we need that exciting / mental / frustrating flair player that gets the hair on the back of your neck up. Asanovic, Eranio, Kinky (for some), Wanchope, Stimac - they were all flawed but just brought something special to the game.

Anyway, what was this thread about? Nurse... I'm wet again.....

Edited to add : apologies to the topic police. I know I wandered drastically off topic but I couldn't help myself. I went all misty eyed.

As a poster allegedly renowned for going off topic, you have my full support and there was nothing kinky about your post for some. Only joking, RVC.?

[Sparkle]

To pay for all these £60 £70 £80 million pound transfers the premiership clubs are looking at returns of £8 - £15 million for extremely average players who have played a bit in the championship on loan so most loans to the championship are going to be very late in the championship window and after we have kicked off our season in my opinion 

in terms of Chelsea they are conducting their business as they see fit

[RoyMac5]

Perhaps Cocu doesn't fancy any of Chelsea's U23/U18s? 

[Raich Carter]

28 minutes ago, Rampage said:

As a poster allegedly renowned for going off topic, you have my full support and there was nothing kinky about your post for some. Only joking, RVC.?

I’m just happy to be renowned for something! ??

[Millenniumram]

I don’t think it’s particularly a surprise that nothings happened on that front yet. Most loan signings don’t happen until late in the window, I would expect the majority to happen next week when pre teams have finalised their 25 man squads and know who to loan out. At this stage I would’ve expected more permanent signings tbh, and I think we’ve been very wasteful in that regard and it could derail our season because atm our team isn’t good enough to just be fixed by a couple of loans. I’m probably in a minority, but I’d rather youth break through because they’re genuinely better than our first team players, not because we don’t have any available, which is the case right now. I think we’re taking a very risky strategy and I think it could backfire massively, we’ve messed up in transfer windows more often than not in recent years, and this feels like another missed opportunity to improve.

Back to the main point though, as I say, there’s still plenty of time to get the best loanees. I’m convinced that while lampard is at Chelsea and MM owns Derby, we have preferential treatment on Chelsea loanees going out to our level. Ditto with Everton loanees with the link between Cocu and Brands. So if players like Clark-Salter are moving elsewhere in the championship, that suggests to me we don’t want them. Now you can debate whether that’s a good decision by us or not, but I don’t think we’ve “missed out” on anyone persay. And I don’t think we lack funds either after the stadium sale. We just simply haven’t wanted the loanees that have gone out yet. Who we do want we will see I guess, but as I say, I always would’ve expected loans to come in quite late. I just hope they are genuinely better than the ones we decided not to go in for, and we do actually get them, or we could be made to look like fools.

[Rab a dab doo]

I didn't know we had relationship with 'Chelsea' you sly old fox Mel and at your age.

[G STAR RAM]

I will be honest, I was slightly annoyed when they let Real Madrid have first take on Hazard, definitely not taking our special relationship very seriously are they?

[RamNut]

Frank dropped us faster than a turd in a swimming pool.

 

move on.

nothing to see here. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

I don't think it was ever likely to be "come in DCFC, here's a top U23 buffet for you to select your two favourite loanees"

We have, as I understand it, been professional, effective and developed goodwill. Basically, we're on good terms whilst still getting the full compo from Lampard's contract. We're still a good business relationship when Bridges could've been burned on one hand or been taken for mugs on the other and come away navigated a tricky bit with doors still open.

[Shang]

Chelseas U23 team in PL2 was ONE point better than our U23s last season. We would have been a lot higher but went on a losing streak right at the end. If this tells me anything it is that our academy prospects are just as good as Chelseas. 

All the recent top quality players that were in the Championship are being kept because of their transfer embargo or being sent to develop at a higher level than the Championship. But below these players (Abraham, Mount, Baker etc) who are these players we need? If they're from their current U23s crop, I'd rather develop and take a chance with our own academy rather than develop Chelseas for them.

Of course we have a good relationship with Chelsea, but only if there's a specific hole that we can't fill ourselves from either buying a player or using an academy player. As Cocu and Mel have said, they will not bring in someone that will block the development of one of our own.

[Ambitious]

1 hour ago, Shang said:

Chelseas U23 team in PL2 was ONE point better than our U23s last season. We would have been a lot higher but went on a losing streak right at the end. If this tells me anything it is that our academy prospects are just as good as Chelseas. 

All the recent top quality players that were in the Championship are being kept because of their transfer embargo or being sent to develop at a higher level than the Championship. But below these players (Abraham, Mount, Baker etc) who are these players we need? If they're from their current U23s crop, I'd rather develop and take a chance with our own academy rather than develop Chelseas for them.

Of course we have a good relationship with Chelsea, but only if there's a specific hole that we can't fill ourselves from either buying a player or using an academy player. As Cocu and Mel have said, they will not bring in someone that will block the development of one of our own.

Chelsea loan a lot of their young players out, so it wouldn't necessarily be anyone from their u23 squad. They tend to use their best 18/19 year olds for the u23 side, although I guess we do as well. 

All that being said, I'm not entirely sure we will end up signing anyone from Chelsea, especially if we sign Bielik and Clarke. I could see us being interested in that Marc Guehi and or Conor Gallagher, but the two we've been linked with take their place. Tomori seems like a no go. We know we want a winger, but I don't see any ideal prospects at Chelsea. Kenedy perhaps, but he's always looked beyond awful every time I've seen him. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

31 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Chelsea loan a lot of their young players out, so it wouldn't necessarily be anyone from their u23 squad. They tend to use their best 18/19 year olds for the u23 side, although I guess we do as well. 

All that being said, I'm not entirely sure we will end up signing anyone from Chelsea, especially if we sign Bielik and Clarke. I could see us being interested in that Marc Guehi and or Conor Gallagher, but the two we've been linked with take their place. Tomori seems like a no go. We know we want a winger, but I don't see any ideal prospects at Chelsea. Kenedy perhaps, but he's always looked beyond awful every time I've seen him. 

But us not signing another mount and tomori doesn't mean we don't have a good relationship with Chelsea - just nothing coming of it this window.